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Hoffco
Guest
Our broad out line is: Israel past, ch.9, Israel's present, ch.10, and Israel's future, ch11.
The Letter to the Romans...
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Hoffco
Guest
V. God is righteous, just and loving in each dispensation/age of His sovereign, electing and saving grace. 9:1-11:36 A. God chose Israel as His chosen nation. Israel's past was glorious but salvation was only for the chosen remnant.
The Old Cov. age. 9:1-29
B. God sets Israel aside for judgment and God now focuses on the Whole world. Israel is presently a disobedient and obstinate people. The New Cov. age. 9:30-10:21
C. Israel will have a glorious messianic age with their Messiah Jesus. the Millennial age, 1,000 yrs. 11:1-36
The Old Cov. age. 9:1-29
B. God sets Israel aside for judgment and God now focuses on the Whole world. Israel is presently a disobedient and obstinate people. The New Cov. age. 9:30-10:21
C. Israel will have a glorious messianic age with their Messiah Jesus. the Millennial age, 1,000 yrs. 11:1-36
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Hoffco
Guest
How can I stop this site from rearranging my outline? I write it the waqy I want it ,in an orderly manor and they change my arrangement. I hate this. Please stop messing with my post. Love Hoffco
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Hoffco
Guest
Romans 9:1-5 Paul's sorrow for his people Israel. They did not have real faith to enter into the Cov. that God made with them. All the Cov. promises were for the nation of Israel but most of the Jews didn't enjoy the cov. promises because they did not follow it. Paul would give up his salvation if his people could be saved. But,he knows, salvation does not work that way.
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Hoffco
Guest
Romans 9:6-29 God's sovereignty in salvation. I will take a brake and rest my eyes. Love to all, Hoffco
Yes as the Gentiles are grafted into the tree, by God we are one not two, Thanks Doug
Romans 9
Living Bible (TLB)
9 [SUP]1-3 [/SUP]O Israel, my people! O my Jewish brothers! How I long for you to come to Christ. My heart is heavy within me, and I grieve bitterly day and night because of you. Christ knows and the Holy Spirit knows that it is no mere pretense when I say that I would be willing to be forever damned if that would save you.
Take a look at Christ in the Garden Father if there be any other way, never the less your will not mine, Is that what Paul is saying in essence here?
And Christ did this, went to the cross and took on this curse of Sin that permeated to all through birth from Adam, and by this took it out of the way, the curse, in order to give life, via the resurrected Christ
Living Bible (TLB)
9 [SUP]1-3 [/SUP]O Israel, my people! O my Jewish brothers! How I long for you to come to Christ. My heart is heavy within me, and I grieve bitterly day and night because of you. Christ knows and the Holy Spirit knows that it is no mere pretense when I say that I would be willing to be forever damned if that would save you.
Take a look at Christ in the Garden Father if there be any other way, never the less your will not mine, Is that what Paul is saying in essence here?
And Christ did this, went to the cross and took on this curse of Sin that permeated to all through birth from Adam, and by this took it out of the way, the curse, in order to give life, via the resurrected Christ
[h=3]Romans 9:4-5[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]God has given you so much, but still you will not listen to him. He took you as his own special, chosen people and led you along with a bright cloud of glory and told you how very much he wanted to bless you. He gave you his rules for daily life so you would know what he wanted you to do. He let you worship him and gave you mighty promises. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Great men of God were your fathers, and Christ himself was one of you, a Jew so far as his human nature is concerned, he who now rules over all things. Praise God forever!
[SUP]4 [/SUP]God has given you so much, but still you will not listen to him. He took you as his own special, chosen people and led you along with a bright cloud of glory and told you how very much he wanted to bless you. He gave you his rules for daily life so you would know what he wanted you to do. He let you worship him and gave you mighty promises. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Great men of God were your fathers, and Christ himself was one of you, a Jew so far as his human nature is concerned, he who now rules over all things. Praise God forever!
Romans 9:6-8
Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promises to the Jews? No! For these promises are only to those who are truly Jews.[SUP][a][/SUP] And not everyone born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew! [SUP]7 [/SUP]Just the fact that they come from Abraham doesn’t make them truly Abraham’s children. For the Scriptures say that the promises apply only to Abraham’s son Isaac and Isaac’s descendants, though Abraham had other children too. [SUP]8 [/SUP]This means that not all of Abraham’s children are children of God, but only those who believe the promise of salvation which he made to Abraham.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Genesis 14:18 and Melchizedek, the king of Salem (Jerusalem), who was a priest of the God of Highest Heaven, brought him bread and wine.
Genesis 14:19-20 Then Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing: “The blessing of the supreme God, Creator of heaven and earth, be upon you, Abram; and blessed be God, who has delivered your enemies over to you.” Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the loot.
Psalm 110:4 Jehovah has taken oath and will not rescind his vow that you are a priest forever like Melchizedek.
Hebrews 5:6 And another time God said to him, “You have been chosen to be a priest forever, with the same rank as Melchizedek.”
Hebrews 5:10 For remember that God has chosen him to be a High Priest with the same rank as Melchizedek.
Hebrews 6:20 where Christ has gone ahead to plead for us from his position as our High Priest, with the honor and rank of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:1 This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of the Most High God. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against many kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him;
Hebrews 7:2 then Abraham took a tenth of all he had won in the battle and gave it to Melchizedek. Melchizedek’s name means “Justice,” so he is the King of Justice; and he is also the King of Peace because of the name of his city, Salem, which means “Peace.”
Hebrews 7:3 Melchizedek had no father or mother and there is no record of any of his ancestors. He was never born and he never died but his life is like that of the Son of God—a priest forever.
Hebrews 7:4 See then how great this Melchizedek is: (a) Even Abraham, the first and most honored of all God’s chosen people, gave Melchizedek a tenth of the spoils he took from the kings he had been fighting.
Hebrews 7:5 One could understand why Abraham would do this if Melchizedek had been a Jewish priest, for later on God’s people were required by law to give gifts to help their priests because the priests were their relatives.
Hebrews 7:6 But Melchizedek was not a relative, and yet Abraham paid him. (b) Melchizedek placed a blessing upon mighty Abraham,
Hebrews 7:7 and as everyone knows, a person who has the power to bless is always greater than the person he blesses.
Hebrews 7:8 (c) The Jewish priests, though mortal, received tithes; but we are told that Melchizedek lives on.
Hebrews 7:9 (d) One might even say that Levi himself (the ancestor of all Jewish priests, of all who receive tithes), paid tithes to Melchizedek through Abraham.
Hebrews 7:10 For although Levi wasn’t born yet, the seed from which he came was in Abraham when Abraham paid the tithes to Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:11 (e) If the Jewish priests and their laws had been able to save us, why then did God need to send Christ as a priest with the rank of Melchizedek, instead of sending someone with the rank of Aaron—the same rank all other priests had?
Hebrews 7:12-14 And when God sends a new kind of priest, his law must be changed to permit it. As we all know, Christ did not belong to the priest-tribe of Levi, but came from the tribe of Judah, which had not been chosen for priesthood; Moses had never given them that work.
And by Faith we are from Father transferred form death to life, through belief in the finished works of Christ back at the cross, is the final transaction done for to be transferred from death to life in the Spirit of Father
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promises to the Jews? No! For these promises are only to those who are truly Jews.[SUP][a][/SUP] And not everyone born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew! [SUP]7 [/SUP]Just the fact that they come from Abraham doesn’t make them truly Abraham’s children. For the Scriptures say that the promises apply only to Abraham’s son Isaac and Isaac’s descendants, though Abraham had other children too. [SUP]8 [/SUP]This means that not all of Abraham’s children are children of God, but only those who believe the promise of salvation which he made to Abraham.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Genesis 14:18 and Melchizedek, the king of Salem (Jerusalem), who was a priest of the God of Highest Heaven, brought him bread and wine.
Genesis 14:19-20 Then Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing: “The blessing of the supreme God, Creator of heaven and earth, be upon you, Abram; and blessed be God, who has delivered your enemies over to you.” Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the loot.
Psalm 110:4 Jehovah has taken oath and will not rescind his vow that you are a priest forever like Melchizedek.
Hebrews 5:6 And another time God said to him, “You have been chosen to be a priest forever, with the same rank as Melchizedek.”
Hebrews 5:10 For remember that God has chosen him to be a High Priest with the same rank as Melchizedek.
Hebrews 6:20 where Christ has gone ahead to plead for us from his position as our High Priest, with the honor and rank of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:1 This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of the Most High God. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against many kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him;
Hebrews 7:2 then Abraham took a tenth of all he had won in the battle and gave it to Melchizedek. Melchizedek’s name means “Justice,” so he is the King of Justice; and he is also the King of Peace because of the name of his city, Salem, which means “Peace.”
Hebrews 7:3 Melchizedek had no father or mother and there is no record of any of his ancestors. He was never born and he never died but his life is like that of the Son of God—a priest forever.
Hebrews 7:4 See then how great this Melchizedek is: (a) Even Abraham, the first and most honored of all God’s chosen people, gave Melchizedek a tenth of the spoils he took from the kings he had been fighting.
Hebrews 7:5 One could understand why Abraham would do this if Melchizedek had been a Jewish priest, for later on God’s people were required by law to give gifts to help their priests because the priests were their relatives.
Hebrews 7:6 But Melchizedek was not a relative, and yet Abraham paid him. (b) Melchizedek placed a blessing upon mighty Abraham,
Hebrews 7:7 and as everyone knows, a person who has the power to bless is always greater than the person he blesses.
Hebrews 7:8 (c) The Jewish priests, though mortal, received tithes; but we are told that Melchizedek lives on.
Hebrews 7:9 (d) One might even say that Levi himself (the ancestor of all Jewish priests, of all who receive tithes), paid tithes to Melchizedek through Abraham.
Hebrews 7:10 For although Levi wasn’t born yet, the seed from which he came was in Abraham when Abraham paid the tithes to Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:11 (e) If the Jewish priests and their laws had been able to save us, why then did God need to send Christ as a priest with the rank of Melchizedek, instead of sending someone with the rank of Aaron—the same rank all other priests had?
Hebrews 7:12-14 And when God sends a new kind of priest, his law must be changed to permit it. As we all know, Christ did not belong to the priest-tribe of Levi, but came from the tribe of Judah, which had not been chosen for priesthood; Moses had never given them that work.
And by Faith we are from Father transferred form death to life, through belief in the finished works of Christ back at the cross, is the final transaction done for to be transferred from death to life in the Spirit of Father
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
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Hoffco
Guest
I Have a big bone to pick with the loose paraphrase of the Bible: (The living Bible) it changes the words of the original Greek Text. We can not trust it, as we build our Theology of God and His word.. TLB paraphrases "the children of the promise" NAS & NKJ to "those who BELIEVE the promise" TLB Rom.9:8. This is bad bad bad, it changes the whole meaning. Therefore please BEWARE ! Paul (God) is showing His sovereignty in choosing whom He will save. God is showing us His word is not faulty. God's word always produces God purpose. God will only save His "chosen" ones, not all Israel are chosen by God for salvation.. Paul will get very sarcastic with the sinful man who objects to God's PLAN. "But indeed, old man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, 'why have you made me like this' " 9:20. As we study Romans 9 & 10, we will see the balance of God's word, God is 100% and man is 100% involved in our salvation. Love to all, Hoffco
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Hoffco
Guest
In Rom. 9 we see the "unconditional" election of God. "For the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of words but of Him who calls), It was said to her, the older shall serve the younger." 9:11-12. The unconditional election is true, and the call of God is all powerful in saving us; But, on the other hand/side, man's side in salvation, we are also involved in our sal. because we must "call upon the lord, 10:13, for Him to CALL us to Himself for sal.. God and man are both, 100% involved. Each does His/his,her, part. 
But the bottom line is "you did not choose Me, no, I have chosen you." Love, Hoffco
But the bottom line is "you did not choose Me, no, I have chosen you." Love, Hoffco
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Hoffco
Guest
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Hoffco
Guest
homwardbound ,I have a favor to ask of you; please post the New KJ bible along side of the living Bible. we need to see both. Often the living Bible give a good interpretation of the Greek texts. Love to all, Hoffco
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Hoffco
Guest
Rom.9:13 "..Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated" THINK of THIS: That God choses to hate certain people just because God wanted to show His wrath. Wrath and anger are just a part of God's nature, as much as love is a part of God's nature. So, if we are to be restored in the image of , we will have to hate certain wicked persons. The psalmist said, "don't I hate those who hate you, oh God. yes I hate them with a perfect hatred," Jesus said If we don't hate father and mother, we are not his disciples." We say it is like we love Jesus so much more than our loved ones, that it seems like we hate our loved ones. I can accept that definition/explanation. My family has rejected me so much, it is like I hate then. I really could not care less to see some of them. We have to face the fact that some people become so wicked that God hates them now in life and these people need to be put away from society. This is why we need police and armies and have wars. We know that God so loved the world of lost sinners,once upon a time, but only ONCE. But we need to see that God so hates sinners, ever day, that He kills all of us in the end of this life., except those going up in the rapture. 
Love to all, Hoffco
Love to all, Hoffco
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Hoffco
Guest
In Rom. 9 we see the "unconditional" election of God. "For the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of WORKS but of Him who CALLS), It was said to her, the older shall serve the younger." 9:11-12. The unconditional election is true, and the CALL of God is all powerful to give us a new nature, in saving us; But, on the other hand/side, man's side in salvation, we are also involved in our sal. because we must "call upon the lord, 10:13, as God CALLS us to Himself for sal.. God and man are both, 100% involved. Each does His/his,her, part.
I have corrected and revived this post. My fingers keep hitting the wrong keys, sorry about that. the word, "works", often comes out as "words", my mind will think ,"works", and my fingers type ,"words". Please, let me know what you think of mt "two level" theory. Salvation is both: 100% God and 100% man. It really helps me to think that what I do is real, and worth while; Like Heb 6:10 really means what it says,RIGHT? "For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister." Does that not say, that our good works have something to do will getting us to Heaven? ARE you listening? Do you care to know the WHOLE truth?
Love to all, Hoffco
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Hoffco
Guest
I have corrected and revived this post. My fingers keep hitting the wrong keys, sorry about that. the word, "works", often comes out as "words", my mind will think ,"works", and my fingers type ,"words". Please, let me know what you think of my "two level" theory. Salvation is both: 100% God and 100% man. It really helps me to think that what I do is real, and worth while; Like Heb 6:10 really means what it says,RIGHT? "For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister." Does that not say, that our good works have something to do with getting us to Heaven? ARE you listening? Do you care to know the WHOLE truth?
LOL I have corrected the correction. Ok. I am who I am, I Love me as I am. I wish I could be better, but, please love me unconditionally. AS, You know I try my best. 
Love to all, Hoffco
And this is the fight to this very day, nothing has changed in the bottom line shown in this verse below:
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Okay, yes I think good to compare, and thanks for the growing inn us both all praise to Father through Son, Christ
Love you Brother and thanks for the invite to come over there, have thought about it before and if God ever willing it will be one day. I am from Doctor been put as 100% disabled to work, and have tried to go back through Social security, rehabilitation program and was diagnosed the same not yet ready to go back to work.
I am accepted to this and adjusting to it as well, I have worked all my life up until almost two years ago, and making adjustments is not always easy, yet God always has a plan in all that happens and it is never a snake I am given, even though the enemy wants me to view it as is a snake, and wine and complain, as if God does not love me, you and all
Through it all, I see God does just loves, period and now I am responding to that, rather than trying to create it
"It is what it is" and that has been, seeing this so freeing, and wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Father and Son, thank you from the bottom of me,
So, I decided to just trust no matter what, God knowing no desire to take God for granted in being forgiven.
Love to you Doug, glad you have dug and are digging into the word continuously, I do the same, in appreciation
Rom.9:13 "..Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated" THINK of THIS: That God choses to hate certain people just because God wanted to show His wrath. Wrath and anger are just a part of God's nature, as much as love is a part of God's nature. So, if we are to be restored in the image of , we will have to hate certain wicked persons. The psalmist said, "don't I hate those who hate you, oh God. yes I hate them with a perfect hatred," Jesus said If we don't hate father and mother, we are not his disciples." We say it is like we love Jesus so much more than our loved ones, that it seems like we hate our loved ones. I can accept that definition/explanation. My family has rejected me so much, it is like I hate then. I really could not care less to see some of them. We have to face the fact that some people become so wicked that God hates them now in life and these people need to be put away from society. This is why we need police and armies and have wars. We know that God so loved the world of lost sinners,once upon a time, but only ONCE. But we need to see that God so hates sinners, ever day, that He kills all of us in the end of this life., except those going up in the rapture.
The Law is still in place not for the righteous that partake in God's righteousness through Son, Law is not needed for them, they worship in Spirit and truth at the feet of the law giver Christ unto Father in thanksgiving and praise
The law is still in place for the Law breakers, and I am elated over and it answers Matt. 5:17-18, where on one hand he came not to destroy the law and Prophets rather fulfill them.
Then in verse 18 it states that not one iota of the Law will be done away with until ALL is fulfilled
[h=3]Matthew 5:17-18[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]Christ Fulfills the Law[/h][SUP]17 [/SUP]“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
[h=3]Matthew 5:17-18[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Don’t misunderstand why I have come—it isn’t to cancel the laws of Moses and the warnings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them and to make them all come true. [SUP]18 [/SUP]With all the earnestness I have I say: Every law in the Book will continue until its purpose is achieved.[SUP][a][/SUP]
Then he went out and id what? Miracles, deeds Father telling him what to say and do, went and started a war between flesh and Spirit or rather showed the war that has been going on since the fall o0f Adam.
So they took him b y force and he did not fight back of flesh, he let it happen to your glory, my glory and all peoples glory when they choose to believe God to see, and stand firm through all the troubles of this world that this world gives to all, with no respect of persons being good or bad
Is not by Christ going to the cross show this world's evil, when he did nothing evil? were they mad, angered at Christ because he drew all people unto him? Took away their glory in controlling the peoples?
And he did not ask for any of them to give him glory did he. He just told truth as truth is, and was punished for it?
So when he fulfilled the Law and Prophets in the first Testament, and gave up the Ghost, and yelled "it is finished" is it ust finished for him or for all that beleive him?
So by his death what did this do?
New King James version
Hebrews 9:15
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:16
[ The Mediator’s Death Necessary ] For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
[h=3]Hebrews 9:15-17[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Christ came with this new agreement so that all who are invited may come and have forever all the wonders God has promised them. For Christ died to rescue them from the penalty of the sins they had committed while still under that old system.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Now, if someone dies and leaves a will—a list of things to be given away to certain people when he dies—no one gets anything until it is proved that the person who wrote the will is dead. [SUP]17 [/SUP]The will goes into effect only after the death of the person who wrote it. While he is still alive no one can use it to get any of those things he has promised them.
so are we in a new Law covenant of Love and Mercy. no more sacrifices for sin, it is done taken away in Son?
We are no longer under the Levite Priesthood are we?
[h=3]Hebrews 7:11-12[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]Need for a New Priesthood[/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? [SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
[h=3]Hebrews 7:11-14[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP](e) If the Jewish priests and their laws had been able to save us, why then did God need to send Christ as a priest with the rank of Melchizedek, instead of sending someone with the rank of Aaron—the same rank all other priests had?
[SUP]12-14 [/SUP]And when God sends a new kind of priest, his law must be changed to permit it. As we all know, Christ did not belong to the priest-tribe of Levi, but came from the tribe of Judah, which had not been chosen for priesthood; Moses had never given them that work.
How could that be when Israel/Jews were God's chosen/elect? What you post here does not jibe with Calvinism.