Dangers of Manism

faroukfarouk · Apr 27, 2014

Ms. Angela: Wow, did you really work as a jeweler? sounds an interesting line of work indeed.

I have visited Antwerp, Belgium several times, which is the world's centre for the diamond trade. I think you would find it fascinating to go there. A lot of the diamond businesses in Antwerp are run by Jewish people.

Also, I reckon that if you worked as a jeweler, you must have pierced a good few ears in your time.

Blessings.

Rachel20 · Apr 27, 2014

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Angela53510 again."

:|

presidente · Apr 27, 2014

How would men go about starting a real manist movement on par with the feminist movement?

First, they'd need some super-radical men to create the philosophical framework. They could borrow from the writings of Karl Marx. Instead of the rich industrial class exploiting the Proletariate, they could substitute in women for the rich, and men for the Proles. Historically, that may not work. So the history the manists would focus on would have to start in the 1960s. But if they were clever, they could argue about the poor deal had been dealt throughout history, and say men have always be oppressed.

Who had to go to war throughout history? Men. Nowadays, in some 'modern' countries women can volunteer for military service and even be put in harm's way. If one woman dies, it's front page news, even though she may be the only woman to die in all the branches of service for an entire conflict, when thousands of men have died. Historically, though, men died in wars.

And who usually works dangerous jobs where people could die-- men. Around 90% of hazardous jobs are held by men and not women. Men also die of prostate cancer at almost as high of a rate as women die of breast cancer. The government donates loads of money for breast cancer research, but prostate cancer only sees a small percentage of that. Men will give to breast cancer research through various initiatives more than they give to prostate cancer. So if the manist movement wants to be like the feminist movement, it will have to teach men to get rid of those protective instincts toward women, and stop giving so much to breast cancer research.

Not just cancer research, men will have to start pushing for special treatment of men in all areas to the exclusion of women and girls. Nowadays, if you are a man and you are married and have a girlfriend, and someone has to go out to the car in the freezing cold, or in the pouring rain with no umbrella, or if there is a potential to be robbed in a crime-ridden area? If it's anything like me or most families I know, the husband and father does that sort of thing. He let's his wife stay in the warm, dry, safe house while he goes out. How can we get men to suppress that protective instinct?

If we want to follow feminists, we will have to figure out ways to stir up hatred toward the opposite sex. I'm not sure that having homosexual men write literature about how all women are evil and unnecessary would be as effective as lesbians writing the same things in the early feminist movement. We would have to convince men that all their woes are brought about by the matriarchy, a long-time conspiracy of women against men. So we could have a theory that women have been conspiring for years to get the men to be the ones to go out to warfare, to go to check the doors and windows at night if there is a burglar, to be the one to hunt down the lions that threaten the village. It's all an evil giant conspiracy by women to hurt men.

Also, if we want to follow the feminists, it's not 'fair' that women get to kill babies in the womb, who have no legal protection, even if the father wants the child to live. So why not one up them and give men the right to kill all their children up to the age of 18? That would be applying feminist righteousness and ethics to men.

And how do we promote this philosophy? We indoctrinate a few radicals and get them to somehow create programs in universities for promoting the philosophy under the guise of 'education.' We can create 'men's studies' departments that exist, not to educate, but to indoctrinate with this made-up theory that the problem of all male-kind is due to an evil matriarchy. Any time a woman wants to have sex when we don't initiate, we can call it 'rape.' And if women give us mean looks, or insist on talking about their feelings, we can call it 'abuse.' And once a woman is an abuser, we say she is always an abuser. We could also teach that all women are abusers, or potential abusers, that all women are rapists, or potential rapists. The university programs and various social institutions can promote this kind of philosophy.

We'll have to put people who believe our philosophy into the family court system with an agenda that whenever there is a divorce, the woman never gets to see the kids again, and she has to pay money to support them. In some cases, we may let her see the children on the weekends.

And I've heard a presentation on the wage gap recently, that shows that controlling for certain variables such as hazards, hours worked, etc., women earn more than men. And we should push for equality of outcome. If there are not enough male nurses, we'll push the state not to hire any women if men are applying for those jobs. If the ratio of men to women in college is 58% in favor of men, we can make sure men still get 'minority' status and scholarships.

Of course, all this is satire. It would seem rather ridiculous if a 'manist' movement ever started, modeled on the feminist movement.

Angela53510 · Apr 28, 2014

Not all feminists are pro-abortion. I published a whole thread from "Feminists for Life" which is about feminists who are pro-life. Just today on FB I saw an ad for a group called "Atheists and Agnostics for Life." I thought that was a strange one, but basically they wanted to discuss how to stop abortion, in a non-god environment. I don't understand that morality, but at least they are fighting for the right side.

Once again, Presidente, you construct straw men with generalizations, and push this manism agenda. Amazing how that works on a manism thread!

I would ask you in closing if you actually watched the video that Rachel posted? It was very informative of her culture, and why she is fighting against manism. And although in my culture, the manism is not so dangerous, it is definitely here, with abusive men hurting women emotionally and physically, because they think they are worth more or in some way superior. When you side with the manists, it sadly puts you in the same category as them!

Angela53510 · Apr 28, 2014

faroukfarouk said:

No I made mostly rings. I have pierced ears, myself, but would never dream of piercing anyone. I'll leave that for the dime store jewellers! LOL

So why are you so obsessed with piercing and tattoos? I just can't figure out why a Christian would have any interest in such ungodly pursuits!

faroukfarouk · Apr 28, 2014

Angela53510 said:

Plenty of Christians wear earrings, and tattoo designs can are often faith based...

You mean, you pierced your own ears, but not anyone else's?

Blessings.

AgeofKnowledge · Apr 28, 2014

presidente said:

How would men go about starting a real manist movement on par with the feminist movement?

First, they'd need some super-radical men to create the philosophical framework. They could borrow from the writings of Karl Marx. Instead of the rich industrial class exploiting the Proletariate, they could substitute in women for the rich, and men for the Proles. Historically, that may not work. So the history the manists would focus on would have to start in the 1960s. But if they were clever, they could argue about the poor deal had been dealt throughout history, and say men have always be oppressed.

Who had to go to war throughout history? Men. Nowadays, in some 'modern' countries women can volunteer for military service and even be put in harm's way. If one woman dies, it's front page news, even though she may be the only woman to die in all the branches of service for an entire conflict, when thousands of men have died. Historically, though, men died in wars.

And who usually works dangerous jobs where people could die-- men. Around 90% of hazardous jobs are held by men and not women. Men also die of prostate cancer at almost as high of a rate as women die of breast cancer. The government donates loads of money for breast cancer research, but prostate cancer only sees a small percentage of that. Men will give to breast cancer research through various initiatives more than they give to prostate cancer. So if the manist movement wants to be like the feminist movement, it will have to teach men to get rid of those protective instincts toward women, and stop giving so much to breast cancer research.

Not just cancer research, men will have to start pushing for special treatment of men in all areas to the exclusion of women and girls. Nowadays, if you are a man and you are married and have a girlfriend, and someone has to go out to the car in the freezing cold, or in the pouring rain with no umbrella, or if there is a potential to be robbed in a crime-ridden area? If it's anything like me or most families I know, the husband and father does that sort of thing. He let's his wife stay in the warm, dry, safe house while he goes out. How can we get men to suppress that protective instinct?

If we want to follow feminists, we will have to figure out ways to stir up hatred toward the opposite sex. I'm not sure that having homosexual men write literature about how all women are evil and unnecessary would be as effective as lesbians writing the same things in the early feminist movement. We would have to convince men that all their woes are brought about by the matriarchy, a long-time conspiracy of women against men. So we could have a theory that women have been conspiring for years to get the men to be the ones to go out to warfare, to go to check the doors and windows at night if there is a burglar, to be the one to hunt down the lions that threaten the village. It's all an evil giant conspiracy by women to hurt men.

Also, if we want to follow the feminists, it's not 'fair' that women get to kill babies in the womb, who have no legal protection, even if the father wants the child to live. So why not one up them and give men the right to kill all their children up to the age of 18? That would be applying feminist righteousness and ethics to men.

And how do we promote this philosophy? We indoctrinate a few radicals and get them to somehow create programs in universities for promoting the philosophy under the guise of 'education.' We can create 'men's studies' departments that exist, not to educate, but to indoctrinate with this made-up theory that the problem of all male-kind is due to an evil matriarchy. Any time a woman wants to have sex when we don't initiate, we can call it 'rape.' And if women give us mean looks, or insist on talking about their feelings, we can call it 'abuse.' And once a woman is an abuser, we say she is always an abuser. We could also teach that all women are abusers, or potential abusers, that all women are rapists, or potential rapists. The university programs and various social institutions can promote this kind of philosophy.

We'll have to put people who believe our philosophy into the family court system with an agenda that whenever there is a divorce, the woman never gets to see the kids again, and she has to pay money to support them. In some cases, we may let her see the children on the weekends.

And I've heard a presentation on the wage gap recently, that shows that controlling for certain variables such as hazards, hours worked, etc., women earn more than men. And we should push for equality of outcome. If there are not enough male nurses, we'll push the state not to hire any women if men are applying for those jobs. If the ratio of men to women in college is 58% in favor of men, we can make sure men still get 'minority' status and scholarships.

Of course, all this is satire. It would seem rather ridiculous if a 'manist' movement ever started, modeled on the feminist movement.

^ Preach it brother.

presidente · Apr 28, 2014

Rachel20 said:

I don't know Hindi, but I could interpret the unwanted harassment by the men at the beginning, on the bus, and of course, at the end. My guess is the man in the office was probably making some sort of sexual jokes. Am I right?

Rachel, if you live in a country where it is typical for the same group of women to be sexually harassed and sexually assaulted multiple times a day, I can see why you would want to be an activist. Is it typical for a woman to experience an attempted rape every day in India? After all, it seems like just about every Indian movie has a rape scene.

My guess is, that most Indian women may actually go their whole lives without some thugs trying to rape them. I would also venture to guess that Indian movies are inaccurate in that every time a couple falls in love, a hundred brightly clothed dancers don't pop out of the woodwork and dance around as the couple serenade each other to music that comes out of nowhere.

If the streets of Indian cities are so dangerous, I can understand your working against it. You don't have to embrace a philosophy that is so contrary to scripture, Feminism which:
- Is based on Marxist reasoning
- Is anti-family
- Portrays being a wife and mother as slavery
- Has lesbians as influential thought-leaders
- Stirs up hatred against men
- Blames for all women's woes
- Depicts all men as potential rapists and abusers
- Creates division is society
- Is opposed to the Biblical teaching on oneness between man and woman
- Is opposed to the Biblical teaching that wives should submit to their own husbands
- Is too divorce-friendly.

Rape is a terrible thing. But you don't need to embrace this poisoned philosophy to fight against it.

And in the meantime, if the streets are as dangerous as the movie depicts where you live, women may do well to travel with a male escort, or else have a much larger group of women travel together.

with a group of ''manists'' - a bunch of rowdy, intimidating men who harass them regularly.

Click to expand...

Do you see how sexist your terminology is? By calling them 'manists' you promote the idea that if someone is a man he is a rapist, or if he is pro-man, he is a rapist.

"Feminism" is unfortunately named. It is a philosophy that does not promote femininity. But the name is already taken. You are using a sexist name for this pro-rape philosophy you have invented.

Should I create a term 'womanism' to describe whenever a woman kills her own child or molests an underage boy? Would that be an appropriate name?

presidente · Apr 28, 2014

Angela53510 said:

The vast majority still seem to.

The 'manism' I presented was a satire of feminism, as I mentioned in the post. I don't believe promoting hate between genders is going to solve problems. But I believe we should all have some disdain for philosophies that promote this kind of hatred... philosophies opposed to God's word.

And of course it is sexist to call men wanting to rape 'manist' as if being a rapist were somehow the same as being a man or being in favor of men.

brokenclay · Apr 29, 2014

AMEN BROTHER. Praying for Gods favour of those who walk with him. Praying God will crush the serpents head. Praying God will give sight to the blind and restore their hearts and reconcile them to Himself. To the honor and glory of our God in Christ, Amen!

AgeofKnowledge · Apr 29, 2014

[video=youtube_share;SaC-2lj6HNg]http://youtu.be/SaC-2lj6HNg[/video]

AgeofKnowledge · Apr 29, 2014

glennsacks.com | Distraught Father's Courthouse Suicide Highlights America's Male Suicide Epidemic

Distraught Father's Courthouse Suicide Highlights America's Male Suicide Epidemic
By Glenn Sacks

[TABLE="width: 90%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%"]

A distraught father struggling with overdue child support obligations and adverse family court decisions committed suicide on the steps of the downtown San Diego courthouse Monday. Angrily waving court documents, 43 year-old Derrick Miller walked up to court personnel at the entrance, said "You did this to me," and shot himself in the head.

Miller is one of 300,000 Americans who have taken their own lives over the past decade--as many Americans as were killed in combat in World War II. America is in the throes of a largely unrecognized suicide epidemic, as suicide has become the eighth leading cause of death in the United States today, and the third leading cause of death among adolescents.

All Americans recognize that our country is rife with violent crime, but few know that 50% more Americans kill themselves than are murdered. Who is committing suicide? For the most part, men. According to the National Institute of Mental Health, males commit suicide four times as often as females do, and have higher suicide rates in every age group. There are many risk factors for suicide, including substance abuse and mental illness, but the two situations in which men are most likely to kill themselves are after the loss of a job, and after a divorce.

Because our society strongly defines manhood as the ability to work and provide for one's loved ones, unemployed men often see themselves as failures and as burdens to their families. Thus it is not surprising that while there is no difference in the suicide rate of employed and unemployed women, the suicide rate of unemployed men is twice that of employed men. It is for this reason that economic crises generally lead to male suicide epidemics.

During the Midwest farm crisis of the 1980s, for example, the suicide rate of male farmers tripled. A sharp increase in male suicide occurred after the destruction of Flint, Michigan's 70 year-old auto industry, as documented in the disturbing 1989 film "Roger and Me." Some suicide experts fear a rise in suicide related to our current economic downturn. The other most common suicide victims are divorced and/or estranged fathers like Derrick Miller.

In fact, a divorced father is ten times more likely to commit suicide than a divorced mother, and three times more likely to commit suicide than a married father. According to Los Angeles divorce consultant Jayne Major: "Divorced men are often devastated by the loss of their children. It's a little known fact that in the United States men initiate only a small number of the divorces involving children. Most of the men I deal with never saw their divorces coming, and they are often treated very unfairly by the family courts." According to Sociology Professor Augustine Kposowa of the University of California at Riverside, "The link between men and their children is often severed because the woman is usually awarded custody.

A man may not get to see his children, even with visitation rights. As far as the man is concerned, he has lost his marriage and lost his children and that can lead to depression and suicide." There have been a rash of father suicides directly related to divorce and mistreatment by the family courts over the past few years.

For example, New York City Police Officer Martin Romanchick, a Medal of Honor recipient, hung himself after being denied access to his children and being arrested 15 times on charges brought by his ex-wife, charges the courts deemed frivolous. Massachusetts father Steven Cook, prevented from seeing his daughter by a protection order based upon unfounded allegations, committed suicide after he was jailed for calling his four-year-old daughter on the wrong day of the week.

Darrin White, a Canadian father who was stripped of the right to see his children and was about to be jailed after failing to pay a child support award tantamount to twice his take home pay, hung himself. His 14 year-old daughter Ashlee later wrote to her nation's Prime Minister, saying, "this country's justice system has robbed me of one of the most precious gifts in my life, my father."

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

proverbs35 · Apr 29, 2014

There's a lot of talk about feminism and legalized baby killing - abortion. However, as Angela stated, not all women who classify themselves as feminists believe in abortion. Anti-feminists usually like to point out that the majority of feminists support abortion.

Angela pointed out that not all self-proclaimed feminists are in favor of abortion. Some feminists are very avid and aggressive pro-lifers, and they work to promote that cause.

http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/87019-feminist-pro-lifers-2.html

It's rather interesting and telling that there's a lot of reference to feminism and abortion, but a thread on those who support pro-life doesn't seem to generate that much interest.

Do some feminists aggressively support abortion? ABSOLUTELY. There's no denying it. However, many anti-feminists conveniently forget to mention that pro-choice women are not the only ones who support baby killing - abortion. In this fallen world we live in, many men have and continue to support the murder of unborn babies - legalized and otherwise. That information usually gets swept under the rug. Abortion is not just a Western problem. It's a worldwide problem - pandemic.

The Chinese government, which is communist and largely patriarchal, boasts that their One-Child Policy has prevented over 400 million births

Forced Abortions in America

Abortion Has Empowered Men to Try to Force Their Partners to Have Abortions

Men influence abortion decisions too

Stephanie Lizon's husband caused her to have a miscarriage

A Ramapo man sentenced for causing his wife to miscarry

Life for pregnant woman's attacker

Prosecutors say woman was killed because she refused an abortion

Prosecutors alleged Smith killed Rivera because she refused to get an abortion

Betts killed by her boyfriend after she refused to abort

Peck killed pregnant wife because she refused to get an abortion
Peck didn't believe in loving his wife or unborn child which is a husband's duty. However, he evidently believed in a wife's duty to obey her husband in "everything" - including abortion. In conversations about an unbelieving or rebellious husband, some love to quote 1 Pe 3:1 as if it's a cure all for every situation. However, those same people who love to quote 1 Pe 3:1 as a cure all usually forget to mention that God doesn't want or expect wives to submit to sin, foolishness as defined by Proverbs or destructive behaviors. 1 Pe 3:1 should not be used to enable unloving, abusive husbands to greater or continued sin.

Doctor tried to cause his mistress to have an abortion

Hollis tried to perform an illegal abortion on his wife and killed fetus

Infamous Scott Peterson

Man confessed to killing unborn child

Wife says Huhne forced her to have an abortion to save his career

Rae Carruth's plot to get rid of unwanted pregnancy

Husband forced woman to abort child

Woman Says Husband Forced Her to Have 2 Sex-Selective Abortions

Husband tried to make woman abort twins

Castro caused 1 of his victim's to suffer 5 miscarriages

Wife Killer Hacking Gets 6 Years to Life | Fox News

These are just a few examples of how some men have caused and supported abortion.According to a number of studies, homicide is one of the leading causes of death for pregnant women in the United States. Some states do not even keep track of the number of pregnant women killed by boyfriends or husband, but the Washington Post identified more than 1,300 during a 14-year period ending in 2004. Murder Is One of Top Causes of Death for Pregnant Women - ABC News
As a result, Pres. Bush signed the Unborn Victims of Violence Act into law in 2004.
Senate Approves Unborn Victims of Violence Act

Do some feminists aggressively support abortion? ABSOLUTELY. There's no denying that. However, abortion is not solely or predominantly a feminist problem. Abortion is a human problem, and it's a pandemic. In discussions about abortions, it's helpful to talk about the many different factors and attitudes that contribute to the murder of unborn children rather than pointing the finger almost exclusively at one group while remaining silent about the ways in which other groups cause and support abortion. The life of an unborn child is precious, and it should not be taken by a feminist woman or a man looking for a way to circumvent his responsibility. The way some anti-feminists talk around the blogsphere, one could easily get the impression that the babies aborted by feminists were valuable, while the unborn babies intentionally killed by men aren't even worth discussing. It's a good thing that Pres. Bush and the men and women who sponsored the Unborn Victims of Violence Act felt that it was a subject worth discussing and legislating. Unfortunately, the Christian community at large has yet to really have a comprehensive discussion about the many causes of abortion. It's seemingly a lot easier for many self-proclaimed patriarchs, anti-feminists and authoritarians to point the finger at feminism for allegedly and almost single-handedly destroying Christian marriages, families and Western society.

Angela53510 · Apr 29, 2014

Just reading through some of these excellent links, Proverbs35, and I thought I would actually post some of the links.

"In 95% of all cases, the male partner plays a central role in the decision.[SUP]5[/SUP] Of men interviewed at abortion clinics 45% recalled urging abortion, including 37% of married men.6 Many of these men reported being justified in being the primary decision maker in the decision to have the abortion.[SUP]6[/SUP]Coerced Choice ... Taken to the Clinic to Make Sure She Keeps the Appointment

A former abortion clinic security guard testified before the Massachusetts legislature that women were routinely threatened and abused by the boyfriends or husbands who took them to the clinics to make sure they underwent their scheduled abortions.[SUP]7[/SUP] Many women are also pressured by clinic staff financially rewarded for selling abortions.[SUP]8[/SUP]
Forced Choice ... Threats Can Escalate to Violence or Murder - the Leading Killer of Pregnant Women
The pressure can escalate. Many pregnant women have been killed by partners trying to prevent the birth, and being pregnant places women at higher risk of being attacked.[SUP]9[/SUP] Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women.10 92% of women surveyed list domestic violence and assault as the women's issue that is of highest concern to them.[SUP]11
[/SUP]
Pro-Choice Advocates Are Rightfully Concerned About Coerced Abortions

While citing a different statistic, noted pro-choice ethicist Daniel Callahan, director of the Hastings Center, has acknowledged the same basic problem:

That men have long coerced women into unwanted abortion when it suits their purposes is well-known but rarely mentioned. Data reported by the Alan Guttmacher Institute indicate that some 30 percent of women have an abortion because someone else, not the woman, wants it.[SUP]14[/SUP]
The Aftermath. Women Coerced into Unwanted Abortions Pay a High Price.

31% had health complications afterwards.[SUP]1[/SUP]

65% suffer multiple symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder.[SUP]1[/SUP]

65% higher risk of clinical depression.[SUP]15[/SUP]

10% have immediate complications, some are life-threatening.[SUP]16[/SUP]

3.5x higher risk of death from all causes.[SUP]17[/SUP]

A 6-7x higher rate of suicide compared to women giving birth.[SUP]3[/SUP]

[SUP]http://www.publiceye.org/ark/reproductive-justice/articles/forced-abortions-america.php[/SUP]

[SUP]
[/SUP][SUP]So it seems like women also have a much higher rate of suicide, especially the ones who are forced by men to have them.

And what is that statistic about forced abortions by male partners - 95%. Sounds like forced abortion is NOT a feminist issue, but a manism issue.[/SUP]

Angela53510 · Apr 29, 2014

Since the Feminists for Life thread has dropped out of sight, I will add this story to this thread. It is about the rape of a 13 year old girl, and the pressure she had on her to have an abortion.

"Some women who become pregnant after being raped are coerced or pressured to abort or may feel an obligation to abort. My daughter, whom I adopted, was conceived in rape. Her birthmother was only 13 years old. She said she was told by the abortion clinic staff that “no one will want a biracial rapist’s baby.” They refused to let her see the ultrasound picture and, although she was 20 weeks pregnant, told her that her baby wasn’t formed yet. They also told her that she was “too young” and would die if she tried to have the baby.She gave in, believing that she would die trying to have a baby no one would even want. The doctor began a second-trimester abortion under only local anesthesia. They never explained fetal development, the procedure, risks, options, etc. She was in so much pain that the doctor stopped and rescheduled the abortion, telling her mom to bring more money for general anesthesia because “she is making my job too difficult.” She then got accurate information and took a stand for her unborn daughter. Her attempted abortion was not a cavalier decision; she was only offered an uneducated and coerced “choice.” She believed the shame wasn’t in aborting but that the shame would be in having a “rapist’s baby.” They made her feel like it was wrong and dangerous to even consider giving birth to a baby conceived in rape."

Hard Cases: Julia Schoch | Feminists for Life

Rachel20 · Apr 30, 2014

Firstly, Presidente, I would start by saying, that since you don't know about my culture that well, then we will have to agree that I am the authority whose abject observations on her country stands, and not your presumed nondeterministic assumptions.

The video that I posted was not a Bollywood movie and even so all Bollywood movies don't have rape scenes like you claimed. Yes movies are highly unrealistic and most Indian movies are fanciful musicals however that is not a reason to discard it.
It depicts a very real and dangerous problem and to simply trivialize it and brush it under the rug does not solve it.

The truth is the truth - whether you like it or not and the reality is that women do deal with these issues of harrassment and public sexual advances many times in India.
To say some Indian women would have gone through their entire lives not facing some form of harrassment was laughable to me.

Here are some stats on street harrassment faced by women across the world. There are different surveys conducted on this. One of them states that 95 % of women in India and Pakistan would have faced harrassment. Another one says seven out of ten.
Taking into account sampling and random errors, I would still say this number is significant.

Statistics – Academic and Community Studies- Stop Street Harassment
'Seven out of ten women sexually harassed' - The Times of India

And your solution - go with a man. So now women have to hire bodyguards? Don't you think the men committing these things should be the ones to change ?

If I see this from your perspective , I think what the problem is that you are hung up over the semantics of the word 'feminist'. To you -
"
Feminism which:
- Is based on Marxist reasoning
- Is anti-family
- Portrays being a wife and mother as slavery
- Has lesbians as influential thought-leaders
- Stirs up hatred against men
- Blames for all women's woes
- Depicts all men as potential rapists and abusers
- Creates division is society
- Is opposed to the Biblical teaching on oneness between man and woman
- Is opposed to the Biblical teaching that wives should submit to their own husbands
- Is too divorce-friendly.
"

Which is NOT the case for some of the women here who have been trying many, many times to try and explain that to you.
I think as a brother in Christ, you do them a great injustice to refuse to ''READ'' really "READ" what they're trying to say and give them the benefit of doubt.

For them feminism is an idea that states men and women are equal. For you - it is all those things which really isn't the textbook definition of feminism. This is a Presidente's definition.
Till that misunderstanding never clears out, it would seem pointless to argue about it, HOWEVER. I would like to make something clear.
You tell me I do not have embrace the Presidente's definition of feminism and I don't.

I am against it. I am not a Presidente-Feminist. In fact I would go one step further and say that I do not wish to subscribe to any philosophy.

Now for the second part.
You are also very upset about Rachel's definition of Manist. For the record, I don't claim manists are rapists.

May I tell you that when I saw your post deriding feminists and then crying foul about manists, I believe then and there my thread achieved success.
Because the whole point of this was that. To open up and broaden people's thinking, to make a window in a wall that refused to budge.

Do you realize the hypocrisy RIGHT there? You're upset about the term manist, and you do not like the generalization it represents but you have no qualms generalizing feminists into the list that you just gave me!

Don't you think you are wronging your sisters who probably just as innocently as you, claim justice for their gender?
Now, coming back to myself, I would say that I am neither a feminist nor a manist.
Also I refuse to be associated with any thinking like God is a heterosexual couple or anything like that. I have nothing against God in fact I love Him. I praise Him for what He has done and I know He loves both men and women.

If you want to go ahead and make up a term called "Womanism" and become a "Womanist" or make some dangers of that, then go ahead. Just always speak the truth.

God bless you.

Rachel20 · Apr 30, 2014

Wow, really insightful and eye opening posts Proverbs35 and Angela!

The idea of fuelling abortion is mostly limited to feminists. However that is not the reality. Both men and women are responsible for these heinous acts. Thank you for bringing them to notice.

Angela53510 · Apr 30, 2014

Here is another one about a woman who made the choice not to abort after being raped by 8 men, despite heavy pressure. It is written by the baby, now an adult woman.

Imagine being a nanny and taking the night off. You’re dropped off at the movies, but your ride is drunk and can’t pick you up. So, you start walking to a home quite a distance away. It’s late, around midnight, and you’re walking as fast as possible. But not fast enough to escape eight young men on a street corner in St. Louis. That’s what happened to my mother, Ann, in 1956.
She finally made it home after being beaten and raped by each man. Not telling anyone, she packed her bags and headed back home to her parents. Three months later, she learned she was pregnant.
Being well aware she was carrying nothing less than a baby — her baby — Ann was determined to give birth. She was horrified to hear her doctor say, “I can take care of it for you,” even when abortion wasn’t legal. She stood her ground and informed him he would not “take care of it.” As a result, her mother refused to believe she’d been raped. Who could possibly want a child of a rapist? My grandmother wanted me dead. Like many women in similar circumstances, Ann was pressured to abort but refused.
My mother is my hero. She gave birth on Valentine’s Day 1957, placing me for adoption. Secretly allowed to see me twice a day, she held and loved me for two weeks. At three months, I was adopted by a couple who couldn’t have children. Like most daughters, I became a “Daddy’s girl.” They always told the story of my dad seeing me for the first time. They wanted a boy, but when my dad saw me, he immediately took me into his arms and refused to give me back. A WWII veteran who watched the flag raised at Iwo Jima, Daddy was my personal hero, too.
I was wanted, loved, and given the gift of three loving parents thanks to a woman who understood the gift of life. In 2005, our eyes met again, and she told me her story. As I wept for her, she patted my shoulder and said, “Honey, stop your crying. I’ve forgiven those men, and look what God has done. He’s brought you back to me.” She had prayed for 48 years for my return.
My adoptive parents are deceased, and my birthmother’s only other child died in 2010. So, as mother and child, we have only each other now. I’ve never met anyone who regrets giving life, but I have met many who regret taking it. I am forever grateful.
Juda Myers heads the nonprofit organization CHOICES4LIFE, whose mission is to educate society about the worth of every human life and to restore respect to women who chose life after conceiving in rape. She believes that, “Women are strong enough to love their children, even in cases of rape.”

Hard Cases: Juda Myers | Feminists for Life

Rachel, I like the way you have so carefully pointed out that some are claiming the definition of feminism is about a certain kind of evil woman, rather than a stereotype promoted mostly by the Christian media, but manism can't exist because men act appropriately. I think the stats presented here prove that manism is just as alive as feminism. Or that neither really exist, because stereotypes are a bad way to look at human beings, who come in all sorts of kinds and packages!

presidente · Apr 30, 2014

Angela53510 said:

It is horrific to hear about influence some men have on women on the issue of abortion. If the Feminist pro-baby-murder (a.k.a. 'pro-choice') people heard about these statistics, some of them might reconsider the issue as one of women's rights.

What if I were to call the propensity to commit abortion 'Angeli53510ism'? That would be totally unfair, wouldn't it? It would make it sound like there was some characteristic of you, personally, that is associated with the propensity to murder babies in the womb. Why would you use the label 'manism' that way, as if there were something inherent about being a man that made one a baby murderer?

'Feminism' is unfortunately named. But I didn't name it. Right now, there are millions if not tens of millions of feminists who hold to a philosophy that the woes of womankind are caused by the evil patriarchy, that women are victims of men, which draws on Marxist thought as it's historical base. There is already a set philosophy with that name on it. How many 'Christian feminists' are there that do NOT draw from secular feminist thought? Hundreds? A few thousand?

I didn't name Feminism, but I believe the word has become too corrupt to use as a name for a Christian movement. After a while, God wouldn't let Israel call Him Baali. 'Baal' used to mean lord or husband, and God even described Abraham as Sarah's baal. Yet, the Canaanites and later Israel had a false god named Baal. They'd messed up the word.

Do you think Christians should call themselves 'gay Christians'-- because they like having a fun, happy time... you know, the 1950's definition of gay? Hasn't the word been corrupted so much that that label would be counter productive?

Should Christians call themselves 'Christian Marxists?' Even 'Christian Communists' would lead to the wrong conclusions, even though there were early Christians who voluntarily had all things in common. Monks who do the same usually don't go by 'communist.'

There is also the problem of self-identity, where women who identify as 'Christian feminists' will likely identify with secular Feminists and drink from the poisoned well of their philosophy.

presidente · Apr 30, 2014

Rachel20 said:

I suspect women in my country have to at least deal with some form of harrassment, even if it's dirty jokes aimed at them or something of that nature. I still suspect it is unlikely that this is typical of a day in India for a woman.

To call this 'manism' is to imply that this behavior is typical of men, or that there is something inherent about being a man that causes one to try to rape people. That's one of the problems of modern Feminist thought, which sees men as bad and sees men as the enemy.

I've never been there. Maybe women have men bumping against them on the bus like that video all the time. I don't know. But I do wonder what is included in 'harrassment.' Does it include a man yelling crudely out of a window, "Hey baby shake that thing", and dirty jokes? Or is it more along the lines of the man on the bus bumping his body against the woman's, or men trying to rape women right in the street? If it includes the minor things, yes, just about every woman has been harrassed. Probably most girls dont' get out of high school without hearing some sort of inappropriate dirty joke.

In my country, Feminism hasn't helped this. If you read dating advice from modern men, they might suggest splitting the bill for the first date. Some women don't want a man to open the door for them. The previous philosophy in my culture is that the man calls the woman on the phone. He opens the door for her. He walks on the side of the sidewalk that has the traffic, in a kind of protector role. If he marries her, he takes on the responsibility to provide for her. I heard of men telling their wives they are lazy and need to get a job, nowadays. In the old days, it was considered rude for men to use profanity around women. Profanity is rude anyway, but those who used it used it around other men. Now, society pushes gender neutrality, and boys from middle or high school use profanity indiscriminantly. One of my professors in college was older and said he still bristles when women use the F-word. When he was younger, women didn't talk like that. But I suppose equal rights and exposure to every other word being the F-word in Hollywood movies have changed that.

Certainly, the men should change, but in the meantime, individuals should protect themselves. If I lived in a rough neighborhood, I could tell himself I shouldn't have to lock my door because the people out there should change. I could put up a sign on my house that says, "Don't tell me to lock my door. You guys stop breaking into houses." But for personal protection, that wouldn't be very smart. If a typical day in India involved a serious rape attempt as in that movie, it would make sense for women to walk around with male escourts (husbands, fathers, brothers) to get to and from work or shopping or to travel in very large groups. I certainly hope the situation is not that extreme in India.

I have read what posters have said. With the millions of women who hold to philosophy above and call it 'feminism' out there, why would you want to call yourselves 'Christian Feminists'. It doesn't make sense to use the label if you don't subscribe to the same school of thought to some degree. If you call yourselves 'feminists' won't your adherents identify with the writings of people who belong to the movement described above? Why not use another label?

And also, I didn't name 'feminism'. I had nothing to do with it's development or evolution, certainly before I was born. I wouldn't have named such a woman after being 'feminine' if it were my choice. But you are labeling 'manism', associating that random set of things that bother you about certain men in your OP with 'man.' As if being a man made one fit the description. If 'manism' is a bad thing to you, why wouldn't you think being a man is a bad thing? The leaders of radical Feminism also seem to think of men as being bad, too.

The difference is, feminism already exists and millions out there hold to a certain philosophy. You are creating the term 'manism' (aren't you?). If millions hold to the philosophy I described, does it make sense for a small group to go by the same term, but with a different definition? How many of their adherents will distance themselves from the other philosophy if they use the same time?

That's a good thing.

I don't think it would be appropriate to list things about some women I don't like and create a philosophy named 'womanism', just like I don't like the term 'manism' for traits about men. Feminism is already labeled and named and has it's followers. I think it's an unfortunate label, but it already exists.

And may God bless you, too

Dangers of Manism

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

AgeofKnowledge

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

brokenclay

Guest

AgeofKnowledge

Guest

AgeofKnowledge

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member