1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
The Letter to the Romans...
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Bottom line, God foreknew, who would choose to beleive him, and who would not, yet God rich in Mercy and Love, sent Son to reconcile all, not give life unless one does come to believe and is why Father has sent Holy Spirit of truth to speak truth through his Sons and Daughters here on earth now, for conviction for all to make the conscious choice in to beleive God or not
At Judgment there will or is no excuse for mankind, for all will know him and all will bow, and all at that time will have made their choice to beleive or not believe
Hope that helps, Father is that deep in Mercy to all, today is the day to change one's mind from unbelief to belief in an amazing Savior, in spite of what we and how we are first born of the flesh
Those that do believe are changed either fast or slowly, yet God does not stop at teaching us truth over error
At Judgment there will or is no excuse for mankind, for all will know him and all will bow, and all at that time will have made their choice to beleive or not believe
Hope that helps, Father is that deep in Mercy to all, today is the day to change one's mind from unbelief to belief in an amazing Savior, in spite of what we and how we are first born of the flesh
Those that do believe are changed either fast or slowly, yet God does not stop at teaching us truth over error
You posted "A. God chose Israel as His chosen nation. Israel's past was glorious but salvation was only for the chosen remnant. 9:1-33. 1."
The context of Romans 9, 10 or 11 does not say this.
The remnant were those Jews that chose of thier own free will to obey Peter's words of Acts 2:38. Any Jew that chose to obey Peter's words of v38 could become a spiriutal Jew/Christian and be saved, but most chose to reject the gospel message. Rom 10 Paul says those lost Jews could be saved if they would just quit "going about to establish their own righteousness" (works of merit) and be saved if they would submit/obey the righteousness (commands) of God., but most would not obey the gospel (Rom 10:16) as those few, remnant Jews did in Acts 2.
Rom 11:1,2:
1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.[SUP]2) [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
God has not cast away His PEOPLE which He forkenew. "People" God foreknew that has not been cast away refers to the group "Christian" and not certain individuals God foreknew unconditionally. Paul explains how a fleshly Jew, as himself, can become part of this foreknown group/people and be saved. For there is no salvation for fleshly Jews outside of this foreknown group/people.
The context of Romans 9, 10 or 11 does not say this.
The remnant were those Jews that chose of thier own free will to obey Peter's words of Acts 2:38. Any Jew that chose to obey Peter's words of v38 could become a spiriutal Jew/Christian and be saved, but most chose to reject the gospel message. Rom 10 Paul says those lost Jews could be saved if they would just quit "going about to establish their own righteousness" (works of merit) and be saved if they would submit/obey the righteousness (commands) of God., but most would not obey the gospel (Rom 10:16) as those few, remnant Jews did in Acts 2.
Rom 11:1,2:
1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.[SUP]2) [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
God has not cast away His PEOPLE which He forkenew. "People" God foreknew that has not been cast away refers to the group "Christian" and not certain individuals God foreknew unconditionally. Paul explains how a fleshly Jew, as himself, can become part of this foreknown group/people and be saved. For there is no salvation for fleshly Jews outside of this foreknown group/people.
Yes, from Romans chapters 9 - 11 the once chosen Jews were cast off and the once non-elect Gentiles were grafted in meaning Jew and Gentile now must become a Christian to be saved. All are one in Christ for in Christ there is no Jew or Gentile and there is no salvation outside of Christ, outside the group Christian. 1 Cor 12:13 show how both Jew and Gentile are "baptized into that one body" baptized into that foreknown group "Christian". In Acts 2 those Jews that obeyed Peter's words of verse 38 and were baptized became part of the remnant of Jews that are saved which Paul speaks about in Rom 11. In Rom 10:3 Paul wishes all fleshly Jews would be saved by submitting unto the righteousness of God, that is, obey by the gospel being baptized into that one body/foreknown group.
H
COME ON,
Listen to the God's words "Rom.9:8 "children of the promise" Sara's "flesh" womb, was dead, but, rom.4:17 Abraham believe in God, "who gives life to the dead and calls (into being) those things which DO NOT exist as those they did;" When God brings us to faith, we too believe in God who can bring us into spiritual life. God said Eze.36:26-27 &37 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you ... and cause you to walk in My statues"..."I will also let
(require) the house of Israel (Israel and Judah,37:16) inquire (to ask) of Me to do this for them:" As a nation, Israel is dead to Her GOD, but Jesus will bring her to life at HIS second coming. Rom. 9:10-11 Rebecca 's children were not yet born and God said, the older shall serve the younger, "Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated", before they could do any good thing or bad. "to foreknow" is not knowing before, but, loving before. v16,"So then it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." The potter has power over the same lump of clay, SINNERS, to make good or bad vessels. How clear God's words are. Love to all, Hoffco
Listen to the God's words "Rom.9:8 "children of the promise" Sara's "flesh" womb, was dead, but, rom.4:17 Abraham believe in God, "who gives life to the dead and calls (into being) those things which DO NOT exist as those they did;" When God brings us to faith, we too believe in God who can bring us into spiritual life. God said Eze.36:26-27 &37 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you ... and cause you to walk in My statues"..."I will also let(require) the house of Israel (Israel and Judah,37:16) inquire (to ask) of Me to do this for them:" As a nation, Israel is dead to Her GOD, but Jesus will bring her to life at HIS second coming. Rom. 9:10-11 Rebecca 's children were not yet born and God said, the older shall serve the younger, "Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated", before they could do any good thing or bad. "to foreknow" is not knowing before, but, loving before. v16,"So then it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." The potter has power over the same lump of clay, SINNERS, to make good or bad vessels. How clear God's words are.
Love to all, Hoffco
H
We must see that the Bible is full of paradoxical trues, The Bible's truth is dual natured, many sided, antithetical trues. Some times truth is this "and" that ,then, on the other hand it is, This "or" that. (others say truth is, "both and" ,OR "either or"). To our minds , the Bible truth does not make sense; but when we realize ,that God is the source of truth, then it all makes sense. So it is with faith and works AND with law and grace. In one sense Justification is by faith without works, BUT in another sense, Justification is by Faith that works deeds of righteousness. But, many Christian are sooo pig-headed that they can not, will not allow God to be God. and believe all sides of God's truth. Love Hoffco
COME ON, Listen to the God's words "Rom.9:8 "children of the promise" Sara's "flesh" womb, was dead, but, rom.4:17 Abraham believe in God, "who gives life to the dead and calls (into being) those things which DO NOT exist as those they did;" When God brings us to faith, we too believe in God who can bring us into spiritual life. God said Eze.36:26-27 &37 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you ... and cause you to walk in My statues"..."I will also let
(require) the house of Israel (Israel and Judah,37:16) inquire (to ask) of Me to do this for them:" As a nation, Israel is dead to Her GOD, but Jesus will bring her to life at HIS second coming. Rom. 9:10-11 Rebecca 's children were not yet born and God said, the older shall serve the younger, "Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated", before they could do any good thing or bad. "to foreknow" is not knowing before, but, loving before. v16,"So then it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." The potter has power over the same lump of clay, SINNERS, to make good or bad vessels. How clear God's words are. Love to all, Hoffco
Listen to the God's words "Rom.9:8 "children of the promise" Sara's "flesh" womb, was dead, but, rom.4:17 Abraham believe in God, "who gives life to the dead and calls (into being) those things which DO NOT exist as those they did;" When God brings us to faith, we too believe in God who can bring us into spiritual life. God said Eze.36:26-27 &37 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you ... and cause you to walk in My statues"..."I will also let(require) the house of Israel (Israel and Judah,37:16) inquire (to ask) of Me to do this for them:" As a nation, Israel is dead to Her GOD, but Jesus will bring her to life at HIS second coming. Rom. 9:10-11 Rebecca 's children were not yet born and God said, the older shall serve the younger, "Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated", before they could do any good thing or bad. "to foreknow" is not knowing before, but, loving before. v16,"So then it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." The potter has power over the same lump of clay, SINNERS, to make good or bad vessels. How clear God's words are.
Love to all, Hoffco
God shows mercy unto those that obey, Heb 5:9 and no mercy to those that obey not, 2 Thess 1:8.
H
My brother, I understand and agree with you on man's side: trust and obey; But, I don't think you accept fully God's side in salvation. God's election is of INDIVIDUALS not NATIONS. Jacob's dependents,desendents are not all elect, only a remnant is; and some of Esau's dis. are elect to salvation. God picks only individuals for sal.. "it is not of him (singular) who wills , runs, BUT, sal. depends on "God who shows mercy". And GOD'S elect is totally unconditional, only based on God's love and grace. But, our sal. is also based upon our faith and obedience. Election does NOT save ; Regeneration saves, Christ's death, resurrection, intercession, coming, saves. We must be very specific on the parts of sal.. Love Hoffco
Israel was a nation that was elected.
Paul is not discussing the salvation of Jacob and Esau but is using Esau's name for Edom and Jacob's name for Israel and proving God does not base His choices solely on physical descent. Edom was as much a descendant of Abraham and Isaac as Israel but Edom was not chosen so the Jews had no reason to think God had to choose them simply because they were Abraham/Isaac descendants.
The remnant of Jews that was saved (Rom 11) were not saved as a result of some random decision made by God, but they were saved due to their decision to obey the gospel (Acts 2:38) And in Rom 10:1-3 Paul desires all Jews be saved by submitting to the righteousness of God (obey the gospel as those Jews did in Acts 2)
God did not extend mercy to mankind because of any willing or running on the part of man, yet to receive that mercy requires man's willing and running, Jn 7:17; Rev 22:17; Heb 12:1; 1 Cor 9:24.
Paul is not discussing the salvation of Jacob and Esau but is using Esau's name for Edom and Jacob's name for Israel and proving God does not base His choices solely on physical descent. Edom was as much a descendant of Abraham and Isaac as Israel but Edom was not chosen so the Jews had no reason to think God had to choose them simply because they were Abraham/Isaac descendants.
The remnant of Jews that was saved (Rom 11) were not saved as a result of some random decision made by God, but they were saved due to their decision to obey the gospel (Acts 2:38) And in Rom 10:1-3 Paul desires all Jews be saved by submitting to the righteousness of God (obey the gospel as those Jews did in Acts 2)
God did not extend mercy to mankind because of any willing or running on the part of man, yet to receive that mercy requires man's willing and running, Jn 7:17; Rev 22:17; Heb 12:1; 1 Cor 9:24.
And so in a nutshell:
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
[h=3]Galatians 4:29[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And so we who are born of the Holy Spirit are persecuted now by those who want us to keep the Jewish laws, just as Isaac, the child of promise, was persecuted by Ishmael, the slave-wife’s son.
[h=3]Galatians 4:29[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
[h=3]Galatians 4:29[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And so we who are born of the Holy Spirit are persecuted now by those who want us to keep the Jewish laws, just as Isaac, the child of promise, was persecuted by Ishmael, the slave-wife’s son.
[h=3]Galatians 4:29[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
H
SeaBass, Your biased mind will not accept the straight, clear words of God on one's individual's election to salvation as God spells it out in Rom.8:29-30 "whom He foreknew", meaning individuals, not nations. and Jacob and Esau were individually elected to sal., as with every other book of the N.T.. You falsely substitute your thinking of National election. You fail to see that ,your twisted thinking says that ALL of Jacob's nation would be saved and NO one in Esau's nation would ever be save; This is totally false of both nations. Rom. 9:21-24 speaks of all humanity as one "Lump" of clay and God who takes the "vessels" for honor and the "vessels" for dishonor from the same "lump" of lost humanity. In Rom. 9:25-33 God speaks of the Gentile nations as "not My people" as opposed to Israel who are God's chosen nation, "My people" ( but only nationally not individually). But, many from the Gentiles are "elect" to sal. so, they get saved, while most of "My people" are forever lost, non elect. The baptism in Rom.6:3 must be spirit bap. not water bap. homwardbound thinks you mean, Water bap. I don't know which bap. you meant. I think you meant Spirit bap.; then ,I would agree with you, We are Spirit "born again"/"baptizted" in to the body of Christ. This does not deny that our confession of Christ in water bap. is an essential part of our sal., Peter, says "it saves", water bap. saves, in that "confession" is necessary for sal.. Love to all, Hoffco