This could be the last time.

[Larry_Stotle]

Well this could be the last time
This could be the last time
Maybe the last time
I don't know, oh no, oh no

Original lyrics by Hal Lindsey.​

Whoda thunk the futurists are Rolling Stones fans and love singing this tune..

Ok yet another thread on 70AD - but please try and answer the questions posed in the following.

(1 Pet 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

(1 Pet 1:2 KJV) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Peter is writing to the scattered tribes of Israel and tells them they are in the last time:

(1 Pet 1:5 KJV) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Literally the "last season" - A season does not last 1980 + years or language becomes meaningless.

John affirms the above:

(1 John 2:18 KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Literally the "last hour" - a last hour does not last 1980 + years or language becomes meaningless.

Of one thing we can be certain of is the apostolic testimony of the "last time" and of the "end of the age" was spoken of as imminent to the time they lived.

The futurists trying to argue math with the numbers in Daniel and trying to plonk it somewhere in history in any other time than which it belongs consciously ignore language in scripture.

(1 Pet 4:5 KJV) Who shall give account to him that is ready (Greek - etoimws) to judge the quick and the dead.

(1 Pet 4:7 KJV) But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

At hand does not mean 1980+ years later or language becomes meaningless.

The interesting things about the above in Peter in regards to ready (Greek - etoimws) with this tense 3 times in the New Testament - in the other two usages it is quite evident that the "ready" means not far off - not 1980 + years later.

(Acts 21:13 KJV) Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready (Greek - etoimws) not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.

We all know that Paul being "ready" to die at Jerusalem happened with in his lifetime.

(2 Cor 12:14 KJV) Behold, the third time I am ready (Greek - etoimws) to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.

Again we see the usage of the word - Paul was not thinking of dropping by in a couple of centuries.

(1 Pet 4:17 KJV) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The judgment was at hand, and this does not apply to the judgment that all will undergo upon death it is the white throne judgment that is in view.

The futurists love to use fuzzy math rather than accepting the language of writers of the NT - words like "last time", the end of all things is at hand, "shortly come to pass" all lose their meaning in futurist "theology".


(Rom 13:11 KJV) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

(Rom 13:12 KJV) The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Paul is telling them that the day in near for their salvation - at hand does not mean 1980+ years in the future

(1 Th 5:9 KJV) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Paul is telling the Christians of the 1st century that they would escape the wrath coming on 1st century Jerusalem - history informs us that the early Christian escaped to Pella.

Paul does not say they would not suffer persecution from the enemy but they would escape the wrath:

(Mat 3:7 KJV) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

There was not much point in John telling these vipers to escape if the wrath has not come some 1980 + years

 

[crossnote]

1980 years is less than two days according to...well, you guessed it, Peter!

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So we still have...ehh, today.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

1980 years is less than two days according to...well, you guessed it, Peter!

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So we still have...ehh, today.

Not really, Peter's statement is about the Lord is not slack regarding his promises whether it be a day or a thousand years he will keep His promises and has nothing to do with the imminence statements such as "at hand", and "must shortly come to pass".

(1 Pet 4:7 KJV) But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Peter would not be nullifying his statement above with "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day"

And you have not addressed the other points raised.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1980 years is less than two days according to...well, you guessed it, Peter!

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So we still have...ehh, today.

yep, and jesus said, Behold I come quickly,

he said that close to 2000 years ago. I guess his quickly is not the same as ours.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not really, Peter's statement is about the Lord is not slack regarding his promises whether it be a day or a thousand years he will keep His promises and has nothing to do with the imminence statements such as "at hand", and "must shortly come to pass".

(1 Pet 4:7 KJV) But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Peter would not be nullifying his statement above with "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day"

And you have not addressed the other points raised.

they have been addressed in so many threads, why do we need a new one to hash out the same old arguments?

 

[posthuman]

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
(Genesis 2:17)

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
(Genesis 5:5)

i don't think God considers time in the same way we do.

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
(Psalm 90:4)

 

[dcontroversal]

1980 years is less than two days according to...well, you guessed it, Peter!

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So we still have...ehh, today.

Amen and not to mention....a 1000 years is...

1. As but yesterday
2. As a watch in the night
3. As a day

I believe these men were inspired by God and were writing the word of God which can only be viewed correctly when it is understood from the perspective that God has on time....

God compares 1000 years in the immediate context to
1. The past
2. 3 hours
3. A day

Peter also wrote that the NIGHT is far spent and the DAY is at hand and when viewed in context as well as tied in with Paul's writings he is talking about the

DAY of Christ
Day of God
Day of the Lord

Which are all going to come to fruition some 2000 years (around) after Peter writes what was written.....

 

[Larry_Stotle]

yep, and jesus said, Behold I come quickly,

he said that close to 2000 years ago. I guess his quickly is not the same as ours.

And he meant it - if quickly does not mean quickly then no words in the bible can actually mean anything - and this type of reasoning you and the others here are showing the same "doublethink".

"In swiftness" or "quickly" Greek en taxei appears only 8 times in the NT:

​

Looking at the usage in these cases except revelation:

(Luke 18:7 KJV) And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

(Luke 18:8 KJV) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

The martyrs of God in revelation 6:9 -11 were told to wait a little time:

(Rev 6:11 KJV) And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Jesus said that the blood of his saints would be required of his generation:

(Mat 23:34 KJV) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

(Mat 23:35 KJV) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

(Mat 23:36 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

How can anyone deny that the above befell those in 70AD? - Ludicrous.

Now onto Acts:

(Acts 12:7 KJV) And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.

(Acts 12:8 KJV) And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.

Now when the angel said Arise up quickly he wasn't giving the option to do it sooner or later (next day, next week, next year) it was right now!

(Acts 22:17 KJV) And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

(Acts 22:18 KJV) And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

When the Lord appeared to Paul was he saying when you get around to it take the quickest chariot he could find? No he was told get out of there right now.

(Acts 25:4 KJV) But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.

So was Festus leaving soon, or was he gonna hang around roast a few dogs, sit back have a glass of wine, stroll around town and then take the fastest horse out of town?

Not likely.

The argument that en taxei is used of rapidity versus imminence in not supported by the the context, while rapidity is an element it is not the dominant feature where it is used.

It is speaking to when not how fast.

Robert Mounce in his New International Commentary on the New Testament states:

"when used with an adverb taxus may mean quickly, in the sense of a rapid rate, although this usage does not fit the context of erchomai taxu (coming quickly) in Revelation

(Rev 22:7 KJV) Behold, I come (erchomai) quickly (taxu): blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

1980 years is less than two days according to...well, you guessed it, Peter!

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So we still have...ehh, today.

The Old Testament prophetic word that pairs with above:

Hos_6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And he meant it - if quickly does not mean quickly then no words in the bible can actually mean anything - and this type of reasoning you and the others here are showing the same "doublethink".

"In swiftness" or "quickly" Greek en taxei appears only 8 times in the NT:

​

Looking at the usage in these cases except revelation:

(Luke 18:7 KJV) And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

(Luke 18:8 KJV) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

The martyrs of God in revelation 6:9 -11 were told to wait a little time:

(Rev 6:11 KJV) And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Jesus said that the blood of his saints would be required of his generation:

(Mat 23:34 KJV) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

(Mat 23:35 KJV) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

(Mat 23:36 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

How can anyone deny that the above befell those in 70AD? - Ludicrous.

Now onto Acts:

(Acts 12:7 KJV) And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.

(Acts 12:8 KJV) And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.

Now when the angel said Arise up quickly he wasn't giving the option to do it sooner or later (next day, next week, next year) it was right now!

(Acts 22:17 KJV) And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

(Acts 22:18 KJV) And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

When the Lord appeared to Paul was he saying when you get around to it take the quickest chariot he could find? No he was told get out of there right now.

(Acts 25:4 KJV) But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.

So was Festus leaving soon, or was he gonna hang around roast a few dogs, sit back have a glass of wine, stroll around town and then take the fastest horse out of town?

Not likely.

The argument that en taxei is used of rapidity versus imminence in not supported by the the context, while rapidity is an element it is not the dominant feature where it is used.

It is speaking to when not how fast.

Robert Mounce in his New International Commentary on the New Testament states:

"when used with an adverb taxus may mean quickly, in the sense of a rapid rate, although this usage does not fit the context of erchomai taxu (coming quickly) in Revelation

(Rev 22:7 KJV) Behold, I come (erchomai) quickly (taxu): blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Has Jesus returned?
Did He return in 70 AD?

Stop trying to use matt 24 as your proof.

3 questions were asked.

1. When will these things (the destruction of the temple. Which in ch 23 he said all these things will occure in THIS generation) happen. (fullfilled 70 AD.)

2. What is the sign of your coming (your return)

3. What will be the sign of the END OF THE AGE.

Jesus responded by showing the birth pangs,. When these things occure, the end is near, but not yet. (there is no way these things occured in just 40 years)

The sign is the abomination of desolation, followed by the great tribulation. Immediately followed by the return of Christ.

the second two have not yet occurred (although one could say the birth pangs are coming and occuring now and getting greater in occurrence as prophesied)

 

[Larry_Stotle]

The Old Testament prophetic word that pairs with above:

Hos_6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Figurative language is used through out the bible and do not apply to the issues raised in my posts and words that actually have a REAL meaning and are not used figuratively.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

Has Jesus returned?
Did He return in 70 AD?

Stop trying to use matt 24 as your proof.

Of course he returned in 70AD - there is no justification for splitting his address to the disciples into the 40 year period and extraploatiiong parts into the future - doing so is based on presuppositional bias.

3 questions were asked.

1. When will these things (the destruction of the temple. Which in ch 23 he said all these things will occure in THIS generation) happen. (fullfilled 70 AD.)

2. What is the sign of your coming (your return)

3. What will be the sign of the END OF THE AGE.

Jesus responded by showing the birth pangs,. When these things occur, the end is near, but not yet. (there is no way these things occured in just 40 years)

Read up on Josephus' Wars of the Jews - it speaks of all of what Jesus said would come in the next 40 years

(Mat 24:29 KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

(Mat 24:30 KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(Mat 16:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(Mat 26:63 KJV) But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

(Mat 26:64 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall YE see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

In the above we have two statements from Christ claiming that some would not taste of death and that the high priest and those with him would see his coming.

The problem with futurists “theology” is that it cannot accept that 1st century apostate Israel/Jerusalem is the whor.e in the book of revelation - until it does so the “theology” will be wrong - but that is not the thread topic .

 

[dcontroversal]

Of course he returned in 70AD - there is no justification for splitting his address to the disciples into the 40 year period and extraploatiiong parts into the future - doing so is based on presuppositional bias.



Read up on Josephus' Wars of the Jews - it speaks of all of what Jesus said would come in the next 40 years

(Mat 24:29 KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

(Mat 24:30 KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(Mat 16:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(Mat 26:63 KJV) But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

(Mat 26:64 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall YE see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

In the above we have two statements from Christ claiming that some would not taste of death and that the high priest and those with him would see his coming.

The problem with futurists “theology” is that it cannot accept that 1st century apostate Israel/Jerusalem is the whor.e in the book of revelation - until it does so the “theology” will be wrong - but that is not the thread topic .

Your bolded above is indicative of the three disciples who witnessed the Glorified Jesus on the mount of transfiguration and seems to be out of context to teach what you are implying.....

 

[damombomb]

1John 3:2
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,[SUP][a][/SUP] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

What is a futurist? God lives forever, but this world shall perish by fire.

But don't take my word for it. Peter will tell ya.

2 Peter 3

1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

Your bolded above is indicative of the three disciples who witnessed the Glorified Jesus on the mount of transfiguration and seems to be out of context to teach what you are implying.....

No it's not - the last two verses I quoted are addressed to the high priest and those with him at the kangaroo court - now we don't know how many there were at the council but there is at least the high priest to whom Jesus declares "Hereafter shall YE see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven"

The problem with "futurists" is they do not understand the figurative usage of "coming with clouds" in the OT to which Jesus is referring - this is spoken of in various parts of the OT where God has used other nations to bring judgment - its is not a "visible" appearance of God - neither was Jesus speaking of appearing "visibly", his power is demonstrated in bringing the Romans in judgment on 1st AD Israel.

You won't be and THEY did not see Jesus whizzing around the planet on a throne.

The high priest knew exactly what Jesus was claiming - to have the power of God alone to judge the nation - that's why the hight priest accuses him of blasphemy:

(Mat 26:65 KJV) Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.


Mat 16:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(Mat 26:59 KJV) Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

(Mat 26:63 KJV) But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

(Mat 26:64 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall YE see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

What is a futurist? God lives forever, but this world shall perish by fire.

But don't take my word for it. Peter will tell ya.

2 Peter

No need to quote the whole thing - I'm sure most on here have a bible or access to one online.

This has nothing to do with imminence statements in the NT - it's a cop out used by the pre, mid, post and dispensationalists when confronted with imminence statements such as "this generation shall not pass", "at hand", "shortly come to pass".

Adam Clark's commentary:

Verse 3

Knowing this first - Considering this in an especial manner, that those prophets predicted the coming of false teachers: and their being now in the Church proved how clearly they were known to God, and showed the Christians at Pontus the necessity of having no intercourse or connection with them.

There shall come - scoffers - Persons who shall endeavor to turn all religion into ridicule, as this is the most likely way to depreciate truth in the sight of the giddy multitude. The scoffers, having no solid argument to produce against revelation, endeavor to make a scaramouch of some parts; and then affect to laugh at it, and get superficial thinkers to laugh with them.

Walking after their own lusts - Here is the true source of all infidelity. The Gospel of Jesus is pure and holy, and requires a holy heart and holy life. They wish to follow their own lusts, and consequently cannot brook the restraints of the Gospel: therefore they labor to prove that it is not true, that they may get rid of its injunctions, and at last succeed in persuading themselves that it is a forgery; and then throw the reins on the neck of their evil propensities. Thus their opposition to revealed truth began and ended in their own lusts.

There is a remarkable addition here in almost every MS. and version of note: There shall come in the last days, In Mockery, εν εμπαιγμονῃ , scoffers walking after their own lusts. This is the reading of ABC, eleven others, both the Syriac, all the Arabic, Coptic, Ethiopic, Vulgate, and several of the fathers. They come in mockery; this is their spirit and temper; they have no desire to find out truth; they take up the Bible merely with the design of turning it into ridicule. This reading Griesbach has received into the text.

The last days - Probably refer to the conclusion of the Jewish polity, which was then at hand.

This second letter of Peter is a reminder of what he said in his first letter.

(1 Pet 4:7 KJV) But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

(2 Pet 3:1 KJV) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

There is no doubt as the days were passing after his first letter that some were thinking - ok "where's this coming" and the scoffers were probably pointing fingers - yet we know that he said in the first letter - the end of all things is at hand


The "futurist" explanation does not jibe with all the imminence statements in the NT so to cripple them they use Peter's one day as a thousand - one verse to explain away these imminence statements and make language meaningless - now if that is not the meaning of meaningless I can find a better definition.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Ah well it is a short chapter so I copy it for you to read here with ease. Plus this retains the context which shows quite assuredly the 70 AD Theory is incorrect.

I trust Peter over Adam Clark for I have never even heard of Adam Clark. Plus Peter actually lived during such a time. During what time Adam Clark liveth, I know not., but I would hazard a guess it was long after Peter wrote his 2nd letter.

Indeed though, the end of days is imminent.

This world shall perish by fire and Jesus comes quickly and assuredly my brother.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course he returned in 70AD - there is no justification for splitting his address to the disciples into the 40 year period and extraploatiiong parts into the future - doing so is based on presuppositional bias.

Oh he did return? Why did we not hear about the ressurection? Did we miss it? Why is he not in Jerusalem on his throne? I think you may be alone on this one

Read up on Josephus' Wars of the Jews - it speaks of all of what Jesus said would come in the next 40 years

(Mat 24:29 KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

(Mat 24:30 KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(Mat 16:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(Mat 26:63 KJV) But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

(Mat 26:64 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall YE see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

In the above we have two statements from Christ claiming that some would not taste of death and that the high priest and those with him would see his coming.

The problem with futurists “theology” is that it cannot accept that 1st century apostate Israel/Jerusalem is the whor.e in the book of revelation - until it does so the “theology” will be wrong - but that is not the thread topic .

lol. Yep.

1. You do not understand birth pangs. that is obvious
2. You do not understand what Jesus said would happen when he returned.
3. You do not understand what the end of the age means (it was not in 70 AD)

you still need to study alot. Maybe you will. maybe you will not. But we can;t help you if your not willing.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

Oh he did return? Why did we not hear about the ressurection? Did we miss it? Why is he not in Jerusalem on his throne? I think you may be alone on this one

Maybe the "common" understanding of the resurrections is off

lol. Yep.

1. You do not understand birth pangs. that is obvious
2. You do not understand what Jesus said would happen when he returned.
3. You do not understand what the end of the age means (it was not in 70 AD)

you still need to study alot. Maybe you will. maybe you will not. But we can;t help you if your not willing.

I've been studying for about 30 years - first thing I did as a Christian is go out and buy copies of Adam Clarke’s commentaries (around $300 for the set) . A full volume set of Matthew Henry’s commentaries and have been building my library and studying ever since.

I have studied all the “end time”scenarios - I did lean to a “futurist” view for a long time but with some skepticism.

A few years ago I finally bought J. Dwight Pentecost’s “Things to Come” - supposedly THE text on pre-mill. I haves studied it quite extensivly and found it wanting - one of the MAJOR things he errs on is the identity of the whor.e in the book of revelation - but then his protestant roots and bias show through in his work.

Any theology that does not identify the whor.e as 1st century Israel/Jerusalem is entirely wrong as this places the revelation in a future situation rather than it’s correctly 1st century time slot.

This from Pentecost’s book “Things to Come.” page 368 and he's quoting Scofield here so he's in agreement with what he writes:

Scofield writes:

Two “Babylons” are to be distinguished in the revelation: ecclesiastical Babylon, which is apostate Christendom, headed under the Papacy; and political Babylon, which is the beast's confederated empire, the last form of Gentile world dominion.......

He goes on, needless to say that is all bunk and built on a house of cards - by the way I am not Roman Catholic.

Earlier in the work page 364 he mentions Hislop's book "The Two Babylons" another book I bought 20 odd years ago and read and studied intensely.

I repeat any other identification of the whor.e of the book of revelation as 1st century Israel is bound to be wrong.