Does water baptism save us

[Elizabeth619]

sorry sis. But that is not how I see it.

If we are saved at water baptism, than it is above all other obedience to Gods commands.



without belief, all obedience is meaningless.



When you realise your adding a work of man to the gospel of Christ.

I am not adding anything. You refuse to understand. You've shown your refusal by misinterpreting about everything anyone has said that you don't agree with. You know I adore you but good grief man!

It is true we are saved by grace, and not works, but keep in mind is was a WORK that gave us the grace in the first place. Jesus at the cross was in obedience. Without that we would have no grace.

 

[Linda70]

Whatever happened to the blood of Jesus?

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the BLOOD OF JESUS!

 

[Hoffco]

In the act of being baptizted we confess to our death to sin and rising to a new life in Christ, we are confessing to having been saved by the Spirit of God; born again by the previous new birth of the spiritual bap. of the Spirit. Love to all

 

[SeaBass]

Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles (Rom. 11:13).

And the Gospel which Paul preached (1 Cor. 15:1-6) is NOT the same Gospel which the Lord Jesus Christ and His eleven apostles preached (Matt. 4:23 & 9:35) during His 3 and a half year ministry.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is what our Lord preached during His ministry.

The Gospel of the Death, Burial, and Resurrection (1 Cor. 15:1-6) does not show up until after Paul.

Paul also preached to the Jews, Acts 13:46; Acts 18:6 and Paul preached the same one gospel to the Gentiles that he did to the Jews. So 1 Cor 15:1-6 is the same thing Paul preached to both Jews and Gentiles.

Gal 2:2 "And I went up (to Jerusalem) by revelation, and communicated unto them (Jews) that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,"

Again, Gal 1:23 Paul preached the faith that he once destroyed, means he preached the same thing Peter and ohter apostles preached. In Acts 15, the apostles had a meeting in Jerusalem over circumcision, verses 1,2. During this meeting in which Paul was present Peter sid God put NO DISTINCTION between Jew and Gentile, verse 9, so there would be no distinct different gospelS between Jew and Gentile. Peter also said that both Jew and Gentile are saved in "like manner", verse 11, by that same one gospel both are saved. Paul never stood up and objected and say "no Peter, I preach a different gospel than you and the Gentiles are saved differently than the Jews" Didn't happen.

 

[Elizabeth619]

1. The water of the flood was the act of Gods wrath on earth.And was the weapon of Gods punishment Noah was saved because he trusted God.
2. The water of the flood symbolizes our salvation. As our faith saves us from the wrath of God to come (the great white throne judgment)
3. Water baptism, Like the water of the flood. In like type also SYMBOLISES us being saved from Gods wrath.

Peter makes it clear. It does not cleans sin (remove filth of the flesh) but is an answer of a good conscious towards God. it is the ressurection of CHrist which saves us. Not some water batism.

to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[SUP]e[/SUP] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Water cleansed the sin from the earth. Those on the ark were saved through water. That water symbolized baptism, those on the ark were baptized through water, and he states that water saves us also.

Yes, as it has been stated many times already in this thread the water does not remove dirt, but symbolizes a clean conscious as you have also stated, and by being buried in baptism into death(going under water) and being resurrected in Christ(coming up out of the water) we may also live a new life.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Whatever happened to the blood of Jesus?

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the BLOOD OF JESUS!

Yes. I don't think anyone here is arguing that.

 

[Hoffco]

eternal, you have believed lies so long, you have seared your conscience and can no longer believe he truth, God has given you a liing spirit to belirve lies, not the truth. You have closed your mind to the truth we are telling you. Love Hoffco

 

[gleener]

And this is my point proven. You have misinterpreted. We do not hold baptism "above" all else. Without faith baptism is nothing. Without belief baptism is nothing. Without confession it is nothing. WE don't just go play in water and call ourselves a Christian. When will people realize this?

Im sorry got in late but by what I have read here do you ms.Elizabeth619 mean that with out baptism faith is nothing? without baptism belief is nothing? and do you mean without baptism no one can enter heaven?

 

[Hoffco]

gleaner, Sorry, you don't read to well, you have twisted the good words of Elizabeth into a lie of the Devil. Her words are clearly not what you accuse her of saying. Love Hoffco

 

[Elizabeth619]

Im sorry got in late but by what I have read here do you ms.Elizabeth619 mean that with out baptism faith is nothing? without baptism belief is nothing? and do you mean without baptism no one can enter heaven?

I meant what I stated. Baptism is a command, and we are to do it. I know many who have faith and aren't baptized. If one refuses to be baptized they are not acting in obedience.
Also, if one says baptism is just a work then they don't understand what baptism is. A work means one is trying to earn salvation. Grace has already been given to us, and it is our choice if we want to accept it. Even though we have grace that doesn't mean we aren't to obey His commands. It is clear in scripture baptism is part of the salvation process. Even grace has conditions. He is the one giving us our salvation, and we are to obey his command.

IF we do not obey him then how do we have salvation. You can't just accept Jesus and go on living however you want. You are now held to a higher standard, and you are to act according to the commands of God. If you do not do this then you never accepted Christ to begin with.

 

[gleener]

gleaner, Sorry, you don't read to well, you have twisted the good words of Elizabeth into a lie of the Devil. Her words are clearly not what you accuse her of saying. Love Hoffco

I hope you are correct just was not sure thanks

 

[Elizabeth619]

gleaner, Sorry, you don't read to well, you have twisted the good words of Elizabeth into a lie of the Devil. Her words are clearly not what you accuse her of saying. Love Hoffco

Im pretty used to words being twisted. I guess that's how people keep their conscience "clean". Not just in this thread but many others.

Anyway, Im out.

 

[gleener]

I meant what I stated. Baptism is a command, and we are to do it. I know many who have faith and aren't baptized. If one refuses to be baptized they are not acting in obedience.
Also, if one says baptism is just a work then they don't understand what baptism is. A work means one is trying to earn salvation. Grace has already been given to us, and it is our choice if we want to accept it. Even though we have grace that doesn't mean we aren't to obey His commands. It is clear in scripture baptism is part of the salvation process. Even grace has conditions. He is the one giving us our salvation, and we are to obey his command.

IF we do not obey him then how do we have salvation. You can't just accept Jesus and go on living however you want. You are now held to a higher standard, and you are to act according to the commands of God. If you do not do this then you never accepted Christ to begin with.

That sounds more like it but now tell me what about the one that got saved has an appointment with water that night at church but buy ill fate died before his appointment what then happens to this saved man heaven or not?

 

[gleener]

gleaner, Sorry, you don't read to well, you have twisted the good words of Elizabeth into a lie of the Devil. Her words are clearly not what you accuse her of saying. Love Hoffco

Im very sorry if you miss understood me I never accused the good ms. Elizabeth of anything I was but merely asking a question love gleener

 

[Hoffco]

No. We are saved by grace through faith, that which is a gift of God --> Ephesians 2:8-9

Sorry ,this is a half truth, which is a lie when pressed to the wall ,you must add more to fill out the truth, this is what Peter is doing .He is filling out the doct. of sal. so we know how we are truly save; bur so may deny the whole truth for a half truth which can not save . it is a lie. Love too all Hoffco

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not adding anything. You refuse to understand. You've shown your refusal by misinterpreting about everything anyone has said that you don't agree with. You know I adore you but good grief man!

It is true we are saved by grace, and not works, but keep in mind is was a WORK that gave us the grace in the first place. Jesus at the cross was in obedience. Without that we would have no grace.

Yes.

we were saved by Gods obedience, Not our own. We already failed

Adding your own work to grace, whether it be something as smalll as water baptism to all the roman catholic sacraments, to all the jewish works of the law, is adding works to grace. And that makes grace not grace at all.

That is all I am trying to say sis.

 

[posthuman]

Some here are trying to make 'water' in Jn 3:5 to figuratively mean the physical birth.

some here are reading John 3:5 and ignoring John 3:6...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

What was this water? it was the wrath of God being poured out on sinful mankind.

How was Noah saved? By faith, In faith he built the ark, which rode on the water, so we see a wonderful truth of God. That how by faith, we are saved, through the wrath of God

If noah did not have faith, he would not have built the ark. And would have perished.

21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[SUP]e[/SUP] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

the greek says that like the water of the flood. baptism symbolises that which saves us also. The resurrection of Christ.

It does not remove filth of the flesh. I do nto see how we could read these words and not comprehend that water baptism does not remove sin.

Water cleansed the sin from the earth. Those on the ark were saved through water. That water symbolized baptism, those on the ark were baptized through water, and he states that water saves us also.

we do not see it the same

Yes, as it has been stated many times already in this thread the water does not remove dirt, but symbolizes a clean conscious as you have also stated, and by being buried in baptism into death(going under water) and being resurrected in Christ(coming up out of the water) we may also live a new life.

Thats my point.

Romans 6 says you were literally baptized into the death and burial of Christ, It is not symbolic it is literal. God does this. That is baptism of the spirit. That is how you are cleansed.

Having new life is great, But if you are not cleansed and made clean, You have no new life to live. Paul says we are washed by the spirit. Not by water baptism.

I wish you could understand what I am saying sis

 

[posthuman]

Some here are trying to make 'water' in Jn 3:5 to figuratively mean the physical birth.

ahem.

Jn 3:6 shows the fleshly birth has nothing to do with being born again, the spiritual birth.

it also clearly explains what Jesus is talking about in John 3:5.

which has nothing​ to do with ritual water baptism.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eternal, you have believed lies so long, you have seared your conscience and can no longer believe he truth, God has given you a liing spirit to belirve lies, not the truth. You have closed your mind to the truth we are telling you. Love Hoffco

when you have proof. come talk to me. But if your just going to attack. Please place me on ignore. Your adding nothing to the conversation.