Does water baptism save us

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K

Kerry

Guest
Nope. Considering baptism is the death, burial, and resurrection with Christ and we are born as a new creature it isn't denying Jesus' blood at all. It is pretty well confirming you believe his bloodshed was our salvation.

IF JEsus' blood is our salvation(and I agree) then what is the point in accepting Christ? What is the point in preaching the gospel? What is the point in the bible at all? The man died for us, so then we are all saved. Even those who don't believe in him. Right? Do we even need faith? Or do we have to obey his commands?

Are you saying all you have to do is believe in Him and be saved?
That is the only requirement.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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That is the only requirement.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:18-24
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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IF all it took was belief then demons would have salvation.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
IF all it took was belief then demons would have salvation.
John 3

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Nothing else is mentioned.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
I will say it again. And the just shall live by keeping Passover or head dunking or by attending church or by abstaining from pork or by speaking in Hebrew terms or handing out water bottles or by shaking the preachers hand or by denying himself or by fasting or by praying etc.. etc... The just shall live by faith, faith in what. The cross of Christ and nothing else.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
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John 3

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Nothing else is mentioned.

So you are saying the bible contradicts itself. That one's faith can be dead but still be saved from Gods wrath?

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity'" Matt 7:21-23

"And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord" Acts 22:16


If you truly believe then you would obey Him.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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I will say it again. And the just shall live by keeping Passover or head dunking or by attending church or by abstaining from pork or by speaking in Hebrew terms or handing out water bottles or by shaking the preachers hand or by denying himself or by fasting or by praying etc.. etc... The just shall live by faith, faith in what. The cross of Christ and nothing else.
Yet you leave out very important scripture. I guess you can take that up with God. You're intentionally being rude. Not worth my time.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
The Cross is offensive.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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The Cross is offensive.
You're on ignore. You deliberately distort peoples words. That is slander. It is disrespectful, and not at all fruitful.

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 2 Tim 3:1-5




Whoever goes about slandering reveals secrets; therefore do not associate with a simple babbler. Proverbs 20:19
 
D

Daley

Guest
Nope. Considering baptism is the death, burial, and resurrection with Christ and we are born as a new creature it isn't denying Jesus' blood at all. It is pretty well confirming you believe his bloodshed was our salvation.

IF JEsus' blood is our salvation(and I agree) then what is the point in accepting Christ? What is the point in preaching the gospel? What is the point in the bible at all? The man died for us, so then we are all saved. Even those who don't believe in him. Right? Do we even need faith? Or do we have to obey his commands?

Are you saying all you have to do is believe in Him and be saved?
Baptism is not the death, burial and resurrection, it merely symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection. When a person accepts Jesus, he dies to his old self and is born (or resurrected) to a new life governed by the Spirit, and this I believe is instant. He doesn't have to wait till the day of baptism to experience this new birth. Baptism represents this spiritual death and resurrection that has ALREADY occurred. It isn't happening that same day.

And yes, all I had to do was give my heart to Jesus totally and I was saved. When asked what they must do to get saved, Paul and Silas simply said: "They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." (Acts 16:30-31) He didn't say "and baptism."

I'm not saying we don't have to get baptized. We are required, not just to get baptized, but to obey the rules Jesus laid down for how we should live our lives, ie. the sermon on the mount. But we don't do those things to get saved, we do those things because we are saved.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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Baptism is not the death, burial and resurrection, it merely symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection. When a person accepts Jesus, he dies to his old self and is born (or resurrected) to a new life governed by the Spirit, and this I believe is instant. He doesn't have to wait till the day of baptism to experience this new birth. Baptism represents this spiritual death and resurrection that has ALREADY occurred. It isn't happening that same day.

And yes, all I had to do was give my heart to Jesus totally and I was saved. When asked what they must do to get saved, Paul and Silas simply said: "They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." (Acts 16:30-31) He didn't say "and baptism."

I'm not saying we don't have to get baptized. We are required, not just to get baptized, but to obey the rules Jesus laid down for how we should live our lives, ie. the sermon on the mount. But we don't do those things to get saved, we do those things because we are saved.
Mark 16:16 says whoever believes and is baptized with be saved. So which verse is the right one?

ACts 16 also shows where they believed and were baptized the same day. Not months or years apart.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Would we have been saved under the water baptism of John if Jesus did not go to the cross?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Would we have been saved under the water baptism of John if Jesus did not go to the cross?
we'd be anathema, with nothing but God's mercy to fall on.

hey we still don't have anything but His mercy to fall on! but He has shown it to us; we're no longer strangers!
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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Mark 16:16 says whoever believes and is baptized with be saved. So which verse is the right one?

ACts 16 also shows where they believed and were baptized the same day. Not months or years apart.
The one baptism that is referred to is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yes, We should all be baptized in the water baptism, but as Daley pointed out it is not the water baptism that saves us. If you are led by the Holy Spirit, there is no law. Where there is no law, there is no violation. Led by the Spirit, covered by Jesus, washed in the blood.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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The one baptism that is referred to is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yes, We should all be baptized in the water baptism, but as Daley pointed out it is not the water baptism that saves us. If you are led by the Holy Spirit, there is no law. Where there is no law, there is no violation. Led by the Spirit, covered by Jesus, washed in the blood.
Really? So how are you baptized in the spirit?
 
J

ji

Guest
I have a friend that's an alcoholic but he has been water baptized so his church says he is saved and that's where grace comes in
Good,now that person must continue to Grow in Christ and take the Cross that God has given.When one does that,there is freedom from all bondage..In long run to a more sinless and Holy Life before God's Presence..eventually running into God's Glory Eternal.
There is no evil power that can hold on to us when we Go to the Cross of Christ to help us get Sanctified..:).
In course of time,Being with God will be our Secondary Behavior like Breathing..:)

When we take the Struggle to be with God,God lifts the chains and burdens that we could not.God is Light,there is no darkness found in him.And God is Love,so we wont lack in anything when we follow Him.Ultimately being Loved as a Child is what matters to us in our walk with Christ.
Christ is Our eternal Father and we are His Children - sons of God or Children of God who are going to manifested when the Trumpet Blows as He returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
 

conz

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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no it's does not save us, it only a symbolism that from spiritual death to life... [h=3]John 3:16[/h]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Col 2:12-14; Gal 3:27: Rom 6:3-5; 1 Pet 3:21 all say baptism saves.

You shown nothing in the Greek to prove otherwise.

We agree that baptism with the Holy Ghost in Acts 10 does not save. So can you point me to the verse in Acts 10 that shows when/how Cornelius would be saved?


Not according to the original Greek.
The Greek shows us that water baptism doesn't save.

I will show you from the Greek, that water baptism doesn't save. Next time.




As for the Gentiles in Acts 10, they had to be saved in order to be baptized in the Holy Ghost.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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You said first "The Greek word does mean water" then proceed to give it another meaning???

The Greek word means water, and in all of the references to it are to baptism, that is part of obeying the Gospel or "the word".

One cannot obey the Gospel "the word" and not obey the command of baptism, but like faith only will not save you, so to, baptism alone will not save you, it requires :

"Hearing" (according to the word) Rom 10:17,
"believing" (according to the word) Heb 11:6,
"Repenting" (according to the word) Acts 3:19,
"Confess Faith in Christ" (according to the word) Rom 10:9-10,
"be baptized" (according to the word) Mat. 28:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47-48, Acts 22:16, Rom 6:1-6, Gal 3:27, Col 2:12 and 1 Pet 3:21,
"then live faithful until death" (according to the word) Rev 2:10
You obviously haven't read Eph 2:8--9.
Or Titus 3: 5.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Col 2:12-14; Gal 3:27: Rom 6:3-5; 1 Pet 3:21 all say baptism saves.

You shown nothing in the Greek to prove otherwise.

We agree that baptism with the Holy Ghost in Acts 10 does not save. So can you point me to the verse in Acts 10 that shows when/how Cornelius would be saved?




This is what the Greek says about water baptism, In Mk 16. 1 Pet 3: 21 and the rest of those scriptures that you quoted.

[1] Water baptism is the expression, NOT THE MEDIUM, The symbol, NOT THE CAUSE.

[2] In the Greek, there are , "Subjects, verbs, persons and numbers", And they all have to agree in order to build a doctrine.
This is what the Greek says about Acts 2: 38.

REPENT YE,
Ye, is the subject, and "Repent" is the verb,
They both are 2nd in person, and plural in number.

Be BAPTISED EVERYONE OF YOU,
Everyone is the subject, and be baptised is the verb,
They are both 3rd in person and singular in number.

So you can see that, "Repent", and be "Baptised", don't agree in person or number.

AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.
You is the subject, And "Receive the Holy Ghost" is the verb.
They are both 2nd in person and plural in number.

So you can see that it's "Repent and receive the Holy Ghost".
And NOT, Be baptised and receive the Holy Ghost.

And because, "Repent", and "Be baptised", don't agree, It's either.
Repent for the remission of sins, which rules out baptism, Or..
Be baptised for the remission of sins, which rules out repentance, And everyone know we have to repent, Lk 24: 47.

In another post, I have proved from the Bible, that water baptism doesn't save, And now I have shown you what the Greek says.