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S
God knows everything, nothing that happens is arbitrary or contingent. Matter of fact, God already declared the end from the beginning (Isaiah 66:9-11). We still have choices, but every choice we make is already designed in His plan. Quite a paradox isn't it? God is infinite, and His divine counsel, good pleasure and will are and have been established before the foundations of the world.
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In my opinion it is impossible to know the future unless you have control to predetermine that future.
So there are 2 options regarding God:
1) God knows the future because it is predetermined, but then we dont truly have free will.
2) We have free will, thus God can not know the future even if He is able to change events to still accomplish His will
Many christians will argue these are not mutually exclusive, but I disagree.
The answer to your question then depends on your opinion of free-will
So there are 2 options regarding God:
1) God knows the future because it is predetermined, but then we dont truly have free will.
2) We have free will, thus God can not know the future even if He is able to change events to still accomplish His will
Many christians will argue these are not mutually exclusive, but I disagree.
The answer to your question then depends on your opinion of free-will
C
In my opinion it is impossible to know the future unless you have control to predetermine that future.
So there are 2 options regarding God:
1) God knows the future because it is predetermined, but then we dont truly have free will.
2) We have free will, thus God can not know the future even if He is able to change events to still accomplish His will
Many christians will argue these are not mutually exclusive, but I disagree.
The answer to your question then depends on your opinion of free-will
So there are 2 options regarding God:
1) God knows the future because it is predetermined, but then we dont truly have free will.
2) We have free will, thus God can not know the future even if He is able to change events to still accomplish His will
Many christians will argue these are not mutually exclusive, but I disagree.
The answer to your question then depends on your opinion of free-will
I respect your opinion... but I dont see logically how God can both know the future and give us free-choice.
I understand your dilemma as the Bible clearly portrays a divine plan and "revelations" which is a predetermined future, yet throughout we are called to choose/obey/serve God and there is a reward/consequence dependent on our choice.
I understand your dilemma as the Bible clearly portrays a divine plan and "revelations" which is a predetermined future, yet throughout we are called to choose/obey/serve God and there is a reward/consequence dependent on our choice.
A
Alright, bare with me here, because I strongly believe that there is no mysticism needed to explain this, and I believe this is an issue that is settled and can be understood clearly.
When we look into history (assuming we know everything that has occurred in the past), we see things that have already happened, and in this sense, to the people of the past, we know the future, and therefore we know what they are going to do at each point in their life. But this does not mean that they did not have free will in choosing to do what they did. Imagine for a moment that God is at the end of the Universe, looking back, seeing all that has happened.
Now imagine you are watching a film of your childhood. You have seen the film once before, so you know what is going to happen next, but everything that happens in the film is a result of free choice (when the film was recorded). Imagine for a moment that God is watching today unfold, even though He has already seen it a million times.
God exists outside of time, which means that He can see our entire timeline simultaneously, as though it is all happening at once. This is why he can answer millions of prayers "at once", because there is no before and after for Him, everything is present. It is easy to see that He could know everything we are going to do, but still allow us to have free will. To me, writing this message right now, I exist in Canada at 12:00 am on a Monday. But God can see this moment just as clearly as He can see the creation of the Universe, the end of the Universe, and the Crucifixion, to him they are all happening now.
Because of this, God knows every prayer that you will ever say, even at the creation of the Universe, and He can take all of your prayers into account long before you make them. To this you might say, "If He knows what I will pray, can I choose not to say those prayers?" or "Why bother praying?". The answer to both is the same; just because God knows it is going to happen, it doesn't mean that it no longer needs to happen, for it does not happen, what is there for Him to know about? You might say a prayer tonight, and tomorrow something will come about that has been months in the working. But this could very easily be the work of God, because He knew exactly when you were going to say the prayer from the beginning, and so He could start something long before you make the prayer.
"Scripture says that more people will go to hell then heaven.....how would God know that if he didn't know the future?"
So as I've said, God exists just as much at the end of the Universe as He does right now. Scripture does not say that He was the alpha and will be the omega, it says that He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. And because of this, He knows the number of people that end up in heaven, and the number that end up in hell. This does not mean that He made their choices for them, it just means that having seen the whole story play out, He knows how it ends. And He knows the results of everything that he adds as well. So when He tells us that more will end up in hell than in heaven, He knows that this will not change the fact that it happens, in fact, right along with that perfect knowledge of the story of our Universe is that very verse that He fed into it which states, "more will go to hell than heaven".
When we look into history (assuming we know everything that has occurred in the past), we see things that have already happened, and in this sense, to the people of the past, we know the future, and therefore we know what they are going to do at each point in their life. But this does not mean that they did not have free will in choosing to do what they did. Imagine for a moment that God is at the end of the Universe, looking back, seeing all that has happened.
Now imagine you are watching a film of your childhood. You have seen the film once before, so you know what is going to happen next, but everything that happens in the film is a result of free choice (when the film was recorded). Imagine for a moment that God is watching today unfold, even though He has already seen it a million times.
God exists outside of time, which means that He can see our entire timeline simultaneously, as though it is all happening at once. This is why he can answer millions of prayers "at once", because there is no before and after for Him, everything is present. It is easy to see that He could know everything we are going to do, but still allow us to have free will. To me, writing this message right now, I exist in Canada at 12:00 am on a Monday. But God can see this moment just as clearly as He can see the creation of the Universe, the end of the Universe, and the Crucifixion, to him they are all happening now.
Because of this, God knows every prayer that you will ever say, even at the creation of the Universe, and He can take all of your prayers into account long before you make them. To this you might say, "If He knows what I will pray, can I choose not to say those prayers?" or "Why bother praying?". The answer to both is the same; just because God knows it is going to happen, it doesn't mean that it no longer needs to happen, for it does not happen, what is there for Him to know about? You might say a prayer tonight, and tomorrow something will come about that has been months in the working. But this could very easily be the work of God, because He knew exactly when you were going to say the prayer from the beginning, and so He could start something long before you make the prayer.
"Scripture says that more people will go to hell then heaven.....how would God know that if he didn't know the future?"
So as I've said, God exists just as much at the end of the Universe as He does right now. Scripture does not say that He was the alpha and will be the omega, it says that He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. And because of this, He knows the number of people that end up in heaven, and the number that end up in hell. This does not mean that He made their choices for them, it just means that having seen the whole story play out, He knows how it ends. And He knows the results of everything that he adds as well. So when He tells us that more will end up in hell than in heaven, He knows that this will not change the fact that it happens, in fact, right along with that perfect knowledge of the story of our Universe is that very verse that He fed into it which states, "more will go to hell than heaven".
Yes you have solved the paradox, however, is it even possible to be outside time?
You cant know that God sees everything simultaneously, you simply assert that.
Also your hypothetical solution poses a different paradox.
If God can see everything at the same time, and is outside time so that for God He is always in the present.
Then He is incapable of acting or change. Thus creation doesn't happen.
The concept of "when" does not apply to God, yet there was a moment in the past when He created "the heavens and the earth" ?
There is also still the argument that if he sees the future of our wrong choices then why continue with creating us unless it is His will for it to play out like it does. It essentially is same as predetermining the future in my opinion.
You cant know that God sees everything simultaneously, you simply assert that.
Also your hypothetical solution poses a different paradox.
If God can see everything at the same time, and is outside time so that for God He is always in the present.
Then He is incapable of acting or change. Thus creation doesn't happen.
The concept of "when" does not apply to God, yet there was a moment in the past when He created "the heavens and the earth" ?
There is also still the argument that if he sees the future of our wrong choices then why continue with creating us unless it is His will for it to play out like it does. It essentially is same as predetermining the future in my opinion.
If God knows what will happen, but we do not, is that free will? I will be interested in the responses. I don't mean to pretend to know.
edit: oops, late post.
edit: oops, late post.
Say I have a best friend... and I know she absolutely hates chocolate... So she is offered chocolate cake or vanilla cake. I know she is going to choose vanilla cake. Does this eliminate her ability to make a choice? No. How much better does God know us? He knows our heart better than we do! So I don't see how knowing the path someone will choose, takes away their free will to choose that path.
I agree with you, knowing does not eliminate free-choice. However, when knowing is paired with omnipotence and sovereignty that is different story.
Lets says you were a control freak and knowing that she hates chocolate you plan on her picking the vanilla cake in which you had planted a special message on the cake. Also to be safe you tell the baker that if she chooses the chocolate cake, then tell her you just ran out and she has to settle for the vanilla cake.
This is best analogy for how I see God as both sovereign (total control) and giving free choice.
Lets says you were a control freak and knowing that she hates chocolate you plan on her picking the vanilla cake in which you had planted a special message on the cake. Also to be safe you tell the baker that if she chooses the chocolate cake, then tell her you just ran out and she has to settle for the vanilla cake.
This is best analogy for how I see God as both sovereign (total control) and giving free choice.