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Sirk
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Me too. I used to be in a band called AD/HD and we had a song called "I'm on the highway to....look at the squirrel. Haha
Money, Coffee, and Selfish Christians
- Thread starter Allin
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Me too. I used to be in a band called AD/HD and we had a song called "I'm on the highway to....look at the squirrel. Haha
Like ACDC? Lol. AD/HD. Creative. My brothers and I and some friends used to sing but never once thought of adapting a name... Okay, in college we did (name was so stupid that I refuse to publish it, lol). They called us the campus' personal boy band, so that doesn't say a great deal of nice things about us, but really, we were good!
Have you noticed, though, that while coffee may be addictive, yet for many fundamentalists cigarettes are a taboo, even as they drink gallons of coffee...?
In my opinion, coffee and cigarettes are the same thing in two different forms. Remarkably, they have some of the very same effects: they stain teeth and clothes and make your breath stink. Lol. But cigarettes don't have the 'it's all about me, gimme, gimme, gimme' effect that coffee has. It's like the difference between people who drink alcohol regularly and people who smoke weed all the time: though some alcoholic drinks are called 'spirits', drinkers are much more open to God and the things of God; weed heads seem spiritually open but are really open to all kinds of evil spirits (that enforce a rebellious attitude, a false spirituality, and a hatred for God and authority and law) and redundant and useless philosophies, making them much more closed to God than drinkers are. Coffee drinkers tend to see coffee as more respectable than smoking (well, everyone generally does), and weed seems to make people more 'open-minded' and spiritual and accepting and loving (it's not real love or community or unity or acceptance at all), but those two that seem good or redemptive are actually worse than the 'baser highs' (cigarettes and alcohol)... and more civilized nations are always more barbaric than 'uncivilized nations' (e.g. more rape, incest, sexual abuse, and satanism in America as a whole than any single nation in Africa). Isn't it quite noteworthy how these kinds of things work.
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Sirk
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Larry_Stotle
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That's why we British drink tea - it helps keep a stiff upper lip.
PS - you yanks still owe us for all that tea you dumped in the briney + interest.
We take visa, mastercard or paypal.
PS - you yanks still owe us for all that tea you dumped in the briney + interest.
We take visa, mastercard or paypal.
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tarzan
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I believe what you are seeing Allin is the true nature of the individuals shining forth.
I drink coffee, I drink beer. I was instructed by my dad at an early age, "No matter what you put into your body, remember, no matter what you do to yourself, YOU ARE WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS."
My dad's words have saved me from much foolishness. I will not blame coffee neither alcohol for what I think or what I do or what I say.
Now the Lord has said, "Wine is a mocker". And this is very true. But that is because we are not taking responsibility for our actions. It doesn't have a power over us if we do not give it.
I do not want to speak to the salvation of those who allow coffee to change their direction and mentality, but I will say that it does not effect what I hold to be good and true. I believe that coffee and beer are not going to affect my spirit.
Now there are those who are able to pretend to be a certain way until they are satisfied, and then the truth comes out. And that happens with all things, not just coffee or any other thing.
I have seen people who have quit coffee and then turned around and found Buddha. True story.
So I think that coffee is not the decider of who I am.
But I do appreciate you bringing to light that coffee is a sort of truth serum in revealing the deeper desires of an individual. I suppose alcohol may do that, too!
I drink coffee, I drink beer. I was instructed by my dad at an early age, "No matter what you put into your body, remember, no matter what you do to yourself, YOU ARE WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS."
My dad's words have saved me from much foolishness. I will not blame coffee neither alcohol for what I think or what I do or what I say.
Now the Lord has said, "Wine is a mocker". And this is very true. But that is because we are not taking responsibility for our actions. It doesn't have a power over us if we do not give it.
I do not want to speak to the salvation of those who allow coffee to change their direction and mentality, but I will say that it does not effect what I hold to be good and true. I believe that coffee and beer are not going to affect my spirit.
Now there are those who are able to pretend to be a certain way until they are satisfied, and then the truth comes out. And that happens with all things, not just coffee or any other thing.
I have seen people who have quit coffee and then turned around and found Buddha. True story.
So I think that coffee is not the decider of who I am.
But I do appreciate you bringing to light that coffee is a sort of truth serum in revealing the deeper desires of an individual. I suppose alcohol may do that, too!
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tarzan
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Agreed about the weed. I used to smoke weed, and it would cause me problems. Then one day after I smoked, the Lord literally, like a thunder in my head, brought me to my knees as I was walking home and told me that I WILL OBEY and I WILL STOP SMOKING that. Literally, on my knees, in the middle of the street in the middle of the day. The voice was so overwhelming that I was no longer anxious from the drug, but I was terrified for hours because of the thunder in my mind that resonated.
I hear people say and still see people, even people claiming to be Christian, who smoke. And some I think actually really are Christians that are not yet right. I can't say I'm fully right, that would be a lie. But, as for me, the Lord has made this a strictly NO - NO thing. And I have been away from it long enough to hate the stuff and to mostly despise the kinds of characters attracted to it. Now whole families are believing this stuff is good and should be done. It's insanity!
Wine is another thing the Lord hasn't been too happy with us having. It seems He is most okay with us, if we want, to have some beer.
On point, around the same time I was having massive problems with the drug thing, caffeine would cause the same problem with me. I had to go decaf for a long time. Then eventually I was able to have the coffee again. And so far, it doesn't seem like the Lord has been unhappy with us having coffee.
I believe that the Lord knows each individual and knows what He will allow and disallow for each individual and how it will affect the lives of His children.
I hear people say and still see people, even people claiming to be Christian, who smoke. And some I think actually really are Christians that are not yet right. I can't say I'm fully right, that would be a lie. But, as for me, the Lord has made this a strictly NO - NO thing. And I have been away from it long enough to hate the stuff and to mostly despise the kinds of characters attracted to it. Now whole families are believing this stuff is good and should be done. It's insanity!
Wine is another thing the Lord hasn't been too happy with us having. It seems He is most okay with us, if we want, to have some beer.
On point, around the same time I was having massive problems with the drug thing, caffeine would cause the same problem with me. I had to go decaf for a long time. Then eventually I was able to have the coffee again. And so far, it doesn't seem like the Lord has been unhappy with us having coffee.
I believe that the Lord knows each individual and knows what He will allow and disallow for each individual and how it will affect the lives of His children.
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Okay I'm biased because I love coffee... so I'm the first to come to coffee's defense. Yes, it is addictive. Does it help me relax? No, quite the opposite actually. It wakes me up.. perks me up... and without it I am incredibly tired all day. In fact, in excessive, it can make you jittery because caffeine lowers the threshold of action potentials in your nerves. Meaning they become hypersensitive and more excitable. This is why people often feel the need to drink coffee to start "functioning" in the morning. Coffee shops can have a relaxing atmosphere... but I don't find coffee itself relaxing... other than it's nice warm hot drink.
Yes, I am a coffee addict. It's a problem.
That being said, you casually gloss over things like soda. I personally know people who have tried to quit drinking soda and failed many times. They drink soda with every meal and usually in between as well. Anything in excess is bad for you. Just like addiction to sugar. Mmm cheesecake. In moderation it's fine.
I don't think it's fair to compare coffee to cigarettes. Coffee does actually have health benefits and antioxidants. In moderation, it can be good for you. The same is not true for cigarettes.
That ends my defense for coffee. =) But I understand your point regarding money.
Yes, I am a coffee addict. It's a problem.
That being said, you casually gloss over things like soda. I personally know people who have tried to quit drinking soda and failed many times. They drink soda with every meal and usually in between as well. Anything in excess is bad for you. Just like addiction to sugar. Mmm cheesecake. In moderation it's fine.
I don't think it's fair to compare coffee to cigarettes. Coffee does actually have health benefits and antioxidants. In moderation, it can be good for you. The same is not true for cigarettes.
That ends my defense for coffee. =) But I understand your point regarding money.
Well said. I wouldn't call coffee a truth serum of a sort; I would say that it's like putting a Bible on one side of a table and then putting a whole pie on the other side of the table: when the pie isn't there, we may grab the Bible... but when the pie is there and we grab it, it doesn't show that we simply like the pie better than the Bible; it shows that we like self and the things self likes much more than we like God and the things of God (which happens to include love for others, so there that went right out the window). So, coffee doesn't <tend to> bring out the true person; it rather <tends to> shows who the true person IS.
All great points; and yes, coffee is a stimulant rather than a depressant as are cigarettes. People who smoke sometimes do so to get calm, but it's psychosomatic really (lol): since tobacco actually is a stimulant and people smoke it and feel like it relaxes them, it makes sense that what's actually happening is that their breathing in and breathing out is what really relaxes them. You can walk around or be on the job breathing in and out on purpose (if you don't want to feel weird); but when you smoke a cigarette (a stimulant), you breathe in and out ('depressant') and so can feel calm when your body isn't. Anyway, I'm not talking about the addictiveness of coffee but the way it makes people act when they get together for 'fellowship' (and outside of that too). People start drinking coffee in a social setting and suddenly all these unspoken social laws of etiquette are enacted. It's weird and distressing. And yes, coffee has some health benefits unlike tobacco; it just does a good deal to surface who some people want to please most of the time-- the Lord or themselves. Social coffee drinking tends to make some people more superficial, and when that comes into Christian gatherings, it naturally tends to have the same effect. Maybe you should check out those coffee slurpers next time you go to church (not that you would notice much; it's just 'flesh time' before 'God time' is all). Doctor's orders: don't drink before partaking in religious activities and you should be just fine
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J-Kay-2
Guest
Maybe I will write a book with the above title someday (it sounds interesting and would probably grab a lot of people's attention)... or better yet write a screenplay. A screenplay on this topic will probably have me crucified by about 80% of churches in America. Money, coffee, and selfish Christians. What's that about?
I hate to keep pointing out that today we as Americans (Western nations basically) are encouraged and taught to not think-- to not be proactive-- but to instead sort of just allow info. in and info. out-- to be reactive. In other words, we are people full of knowledge (which means we know a lot of things) but who don't really think about things (which means we don't understand much about what we know); we rarely ever consider things but take things at face value and don't see beyond the veneer, facade, front, or face. This is for you Christians who aren't afraid to think scientifically or to use logic, reason, and observational skills (as well as for those who have never thought about any of this if they will observe it).
I have noticed that there are two things that tend to make Christians in America almost immediately transform: money and coffee. Yes. Let me explain:
1. Money first. If you take an average Christian and make him a leader of some kind-- pastor, worship leader, Sunday school teacher, etc.-- he or she remains approachable, normal, human for the most part. As soon as they begin to get paid, they almost immediately transform. It is unreal. Furthermore, when money is included in the equation, it changes the way a Christian thinks. A Christian counselor, for instance, who could once freely counsel others now requires money to see a person and cannot fathom that while he or she perhaps should be paid for their work and hours, it is wrong to turn away a person who cannot afford to pay. Money tends to blind Christians to the obvious as it draws out the selfishness in him or her. There are many ways to test this one being to ask a paid minister if he would still minister without pay.
2. Coffee. Coffee is like satan's favorite drink or something. While we all know that 'money changes people' (it really doesn't; it draws the self-centered nature to the fore and out of hiding), probably no one has yet noticed that coffee tends to absolutely transform Christians or perhaps I should say Christian settings. There is a comfort resident in coffee that makes people in general and Christians in particular want to 'relax'. The problem with this in Christian circles is that it draws out the human self-centered nature which is directly contrary to the Spirit and the things of God. So, what does this look like practically? You can actually study this and it will blow your socks off (to think that a simple drink can decide the spiritual atmosphere or the reception or rejection of the Lord seems like quite a stretch, but believe me it's not theory): gather a group of Christians to a prayer meeting, cell group, Bible study, anything; tell them it's a gathering where you will be seeking God (i.e. doing something 'spiritual' like prayer, Bible reading, etc.). Let them get together, sit down; start leading the conversation to the things of God. The spiritual climate will begin to change. Introduce some snacks and juice or soda as you continue talking about the things of God. When several minutes (about fifteen) have passed, then introduce coffee. The results are beyond shocking (generally). Anyone who knows how to sense the Lord's presence will be surprised that if the Holy Spirit is around, He begins to leave when coffee is introduced. How can this possibly be? Is this possible? Can such a claim be made? What happens is that coffee, again, tends to 'relax' people (and it's almost like a god in itself; it's not a god at all, it only feeds the god called fleshly comfort); it makes people 'me-focused'. Because the flesh strives against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, when coffee begins to caress and soothe the flesh, the flesh will surface more (the one you feed more (flesh or spirit) is the one that will have the preeminence), and the Holy Spirit will naturally pull back or pull away. If anyone is discerning or wants to observe things like this, you will note that churches that make serving coffee an intrinsic part of their system will pretty much always tend to be completely superficial and, while often Charismatic churches that 'welcome the Holy Spirit' really dwell in the soul and a self-centered 'gimme, gimme, gimme' attitude toward God. Ladies and gentlemen, this is very real, a study that I would be willing to present anywhere and at any time.
This, of course, isn't saying that money and coffee are bad; however, their effects on Christians are some that I have continually observed much to my dismay... especially coffee. Coffee is almost like its own alcohol and, for those who know how to distinguish flesh from spirit, makes Christians appear to be evil... like, for real; for this reason, I call apparently superficial churches 'Starbucks Churches' or obviously superficial Christians 'iPhone Christians' (because of the superficiality that Starbucks and such coffee places (and iPhone, etc.) engender and encourage in people): they operate constantly in the flesh (gimme, gimme, gimme) and the soul (feelings or the flesh's alternative for the Holy Spirit) and say that because the Holy Spirit operates through gifts among them then it means they're 'doing it right'. It's plain outstanding. They have some of these shows on TV about paranormal investigators and such. Those guys barely know what they're doing; however, there is a way in Christ to observe the spiritual climates of places especially among Christians. God has really linked the natural and spiritual so that everything is within reach: you can take a pad and pen (research material) and go into Christian circles starting with churches and observe things in both the natural (what your natural senses can sense) and the spiritual (what some people call 'vibes'). I responded to a thread and thought I'd share this. People who want to be proactive or who are willing to consider things and see beyond the facade will be learning a lot more than everyone else and will be making sense of things way before those things make sense to others (you'd be surprised the changes in spiritual atmosphere from low-income neighborhoods to middle-upper class ones, etc.; new science). Makes sense to meNow, on to more important things... Where's the other half of me
Allin, You have much wisdom for your age. I am so pleased to see you write
TRUTH.
Okay, What you said about Church leaders. What came to my mind was the
fact at one time if a parishioner was in the hospital, the Pastor went to visit.
Now, most send a replacement. This has caused some hurt feelings from what
I have observed over the years.
Also, if a new Christian stops coming to the Church, the Pastors would visit
personally to find the reason why they aren't attending. Some will call on
phone, but a home visit is best.
Counselors charging? I had not heard that, but it doesn't surprise me at all.
Heck I counsel for free. No license, but been thinking about sending away and
spend $5.00 for one to frame.
Coffee. You hit the nail on the head on that topic.
I would have Prayer meetings in my home in the evening and
that was just what it was. No snacks. No. I am not stingy.
I wanted it to be focused totally on PRAYER. Also I asked
they not make it Gossip. Give just the main point needed and
what was prayed was to stay within the group.
I am not mean. Honest. Okay, I get grumpy, as many can attest
to, here on CC. I did notice what you said was so right on, I
wanted to high five you. Okay, this is not all women I speak
about, but I do know it happens. If a Bible Study is held in day
time, it was expected of the Hostess to serve snack and coffee.
I agreed with you, it can take away from the seriousness of the
meeting. Serving afterwards, is neat time to do it. Even there
though, I feel it puts a strain on some budgets for some, and
where a young lady might like to host or even attend a Bible Study
she feels can't because she does not have the funds to serve
like the lady before her who hosted more elegantly.
The Churches turning into Coffee Houses. I am aware of that
also. I have also been hearing of the darkening of the entire
sanctuary, and strobe lights being used. Unless it is a Carmen
Concert performance, I think that is really doing an injustice
to Jesus and reverence toward God.
Okay, thank you for your many wise words of wisdom. I have to
confess, I did not read all the posts, so I may be way out of
the loop here. But, it is what it is.... and I agree with you and
wanted to say so.... J~K~2
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Sirk
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I think you could add to your list sports. I see so many of my Christian friends overly concerned about their favorite sports team.
Long ago, someone told me I’d so something smart someday, so I decided to start working on it immediately
Pastors are too burdened already and simply cannot find time to visit each person who needs it; but it was never meant to be that way, otherwise, it would make the pastor something like God’s man on earth (like the pope and Catholic priests). Problem is most people don’t see any other model to use since the Biblical model doesn’t work for us, etc. Between all the immaturity and the pastors wanting to get rather than give, we’ve all worked out a compromise where we all live as we want, show up and act Christian once or twice a week, make sure we don’t go digging in each others' business, and call it even.
Yes, counselors charge (ministers who counsel fit here too). I once asked a minister who charged his clients about it. He parroted something the Bible said that actually made sense that he needed money as a way of making a living; then I asked him if it was right to turn away a person who didn’t have money based on the money they didn’t have, and he was at a complete loss and ducked and dodged me every chance he got. The thing is that if a Christian is professionally a counselor, it is good to be paid for it; but when a person comes for counseling (especially another Christian) but has no money, that is when it is time for the rules to change. (Christianity is not rigid; rules change according to the leading of the Spirit and one’s sanctified conscience: Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said… but I say to you…”) When this happens, the counselor must necessarily seek what the Bible says about this; if the Bible is silent, then it’s time to ask the Lord; and if the Lord is silent (He does this often and on purpose to see what is in a person’s heart—what the person wants to do and will do when He is quiet), then one must follow their conscience. This is where pretty much everyone drops the ball. Your conscience will tell you as a Christian that <while it is right to make a living,> it is wrong to turn a person in need away because they don’t have money. As a professional counselor who is Christian and in this situation, you then decide to:
1. turn the person away and continue counseling (that will not go over well with a certain cloud of Witnesses)
2. counsel the person for free but legally (perhaps the counselor pays for it) or
3. abandon counseling because it places pressure on the counselor to compromise or live contrary to God’s will
You’re right: food will make people feel like it’s ‘me time’. (Coffee has a quality that can make this ‘me time’ even more pronounced. Where food makes people feel like fellowship and laughter, etc., coffee tends more towards leading people away from things that have to do with the Lord.) High five back! Lol. Yes, you bring another aspect to the serving thing: people with less money can feel stressed to measure up, etc. These issues are all the kinds of details that should be handled by the leadership in churches, cell groups, etc. People’s dignity needs to be preserved (at least God sees it that way), but we don’t excel in that at all.
As for churches becoming coffee houses, I’m yet to see reverence for God in one hand and coffee in another. Lol. Have I blown my cover? I don’t work for any anti-coffee organizations. I’m sure there are none on this planet. God said long ago, “By those who come near Me, I must be regarded as holy, and before all the people, I must be glorified.” God won’t be glorified until He is regarded as holy by those who come near Him (Christians). The last thing coffee does is make people reverent; it promotes this party, me-myself-I-my-mine, what God? atmosphere that is almost like what marijuana produces in so many people. God won’t be glorified (of course, we can keep having our soul and evil spirit-produced tiny revivals in the meantime) among unbelievers until Christians approach Him with reverence: “When you pray, say, ‘Our Father in Heaven, hallowed be Your Name’…” Amen. I’ve been amazed to see that everything the Bible says always works just as the Bible says it; I think we should stand around and see if that one (God won’t be glorified among the people till Christians serve Him with reverence) is true too.
Thanks for agreeing. It’s not something I go looking for; I’m not looking for where things are wrong. I’m seeing them and asking why they are wrong, and that’s where the answers and the explanations begin. When people agree, it’s apparent that others are looking for something more real too.
I'm glad you took the time to read the OP. Yes, I do hate coffee, especially what it does to innocent people (lol). You aren't walking around with grounds in your pockets are you. Actually, I don't even serve it at my place and hope I never have to!
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danalee
Guest
Since I am probably the only one who is going to engage you on this I will.
I was just researching the effects of caffeine. Yes, it causes brain changes almost immediately. No one notices.
Hard stimulants cause psychosis. Does coffee cause psychosis? Yep, it sure does. Only in a small percentage off people, but it does happen. I'm one of them, I think. I get just so sick with coffee, first laughing and then I crash. And coffee causes people to sleep less deeply at night. Even one cup a day and the EEG's start changing. Over time, it's an addiction. And people on CC like to make a big deal of alcohol but is it acceptable for the coffee highs and what not? It dehydrates people. The reason it picks you up is it releases adrenaline and causes sugars to be metabolized, this makes your sugars drop and you get cranky.
It probably is a device of the devil. I only have a cup very rarely and it makes me feel nuts. (which is probably a short trip for me)
I was just researching the effects of caffeine. Yes, it causes brain changes almost immediately. No one notices.
Hard stimulants cause psychosis. Does coffee cause psychosis? Yep, it sure does. Only in a small percentage off people, but it does happen. I'm one of them, I think. I get just so sick with coffee, first laughing and then I crash. And coffee causes people to sleep less deeply at night. Even one cup a day and the EEG's start changing. Over time, it's an addiction. And people on CC like to make a big deal of alcohol but is it acceptable for the coffee highs and what not? It dehydrates people. The reason it picks you up is it releases adrenaline and causes sugars to be metabolized, this makes your sugars drop and you get cranky.
It probably is a device of the devil. I only have a cup very rarely and it makes me feel nuts. (which is probably a short trip for me)
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danalee
Guest
So increased adrenaline = fight or flight = fear = ..yeah fear is a device. Well, I'm a tea drinker.
Do you drink tea? Have you tried that rooibos tea? The red tea, it's yummy, has all the protective stuff as green but no caffeine.
