J
Jda016
Guest
Yeah I have thought this too. How amazing would it be if those churches went through the school and anointed and prayed over it for the sake of the students throughout the week!
Money, Coffee, and Selfish Christians
- Thread starter Allin
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Yeah I have thought this too. How amazing would it be if those churches went through the school and anointed and prayed over it for the sake of the students throughout the week!
J
Jda016
Guest
You may want to hang out with a different crowd. Coffee kept me alert and awake while I studied the bible late nights (which, is when I could without being disturbed). No one that I know of ever got drunk drinking coffee. As I said, you are hanging out with the wrong crowd, if you have observed this. Now that I think of it, people that insist on staying "hydrated" by constantly drinking bottled water, turn into zombies - they cannot stop drinking water, nor can they stop staring at their smartphones.
I drink beer, and coffee, and I do not stare at smartphones, for I do not possess one, nor do I wish to.
God Himself said: My children are sottish. Sottish means stupid. Stupid is as stupid does, regardless of what the stupid ingests.
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Regarding the OP:
First, the Bible agrees with you about money. This is why we are told to render unto Caeser what is Caeser's. Everything else belongs to Yah. Make your rendering unto him, and not money. Does it change people? Yes, it does. It becomes why we do what we do, and becomes a sieve where enough is never enough.
My husband is not a believer. At the time we met, I was listening to a lot of sermons given by the Swaggarts. My husband said, "How much do you believe your teachers when they obviously invest so much of their earnings in their own best interest?" I admit, I hadn't thought of it that way. Then my eyes were opened. These preachers wearing $2K suits and driving new BMW's are not doing the works of my god. Why is not every penny they get going back into preaching the word? Why aren't they shopping at Wal-Mart, like the people donating, instead of wearing custom made dresses and carrying designer purses? Shouldn't they be putting every penny into feeding the poor and producing free materials to share with the world? That is not what they do, and because of that, I turned away from them and their teachings.
As a contrast, I grew up in the Salvation Army. The officers live in well-repaired but not fancy houses, they drive church vans and economy vehicles. They put every penny they can back into their ministry, and they actively help others every day. Without the lure of a big money cash out for the works they do, these humble folks are providing both a hand and a heart to the people of the world. Which one reflects Messiah?
As for the coffee, I think you're looking for a demon behind every blade of grass, frankly. Each individual responds to it differently. Some people don't drink it at all, even at meetings they relax at. How much more freely will the thoughts flow and the people fellowship if they feel comfortable? I am personally trying to break the habit, but that's about my personal walk of faith, and nothing to do with judging others for having a cup of joe and settling back. I've seen the behavior you describe when food was served, when sweets were served, when tea was served, when alcohol was served, or even when someone got up to go to the bathroom. Who's to judge what is "too comfortable?" You? Not me.
Sin is sin. If people are being sinful and not focused on the meeting (if not focusing on the meeting is indeed sin,) that's about their sin and not about the coffee. If people are being "too comfortable" and slipping into gossip and talk of babies and laundry, then that's a leadership fail and not a coffee fail.
The Puritans and the early Americans used to have this idea that everyone must come into the meeting and be stern and serious, sit on wooden, uncomfortable benches and listen to hours of preaching. Was that better? Would you prefer that sort of Bible study? I'm pretty sure that's not how Paul did it, though I wasn't there to witness.
You seem awfully focused on the behaviors of others. It's obvious you have spent a great deal of time coming to this place of judgement. I hope your time and effort is not a rabbit trail that Satan gave to you so that you would spend your time writing about the behavior of other people instead of praising your god and producing works that bear fruit. Shalom.
First, the Bible agrees with you about money. This is why we are told to render unto Caeser what is Caeser's. Everything else belongs to Yah. Make your rendering unto him, and not money. Does it change people? Yes, it does. It becomes why we do what we do, and becomes a sieve where enough is never enough.
My husband is not a believer. At the time we met, I was listening to a lot of sermons given by the Swaggarts. My husband said, "How much do you believe your teachers when they obviously invest so much of their earnings in their own best interest?" I admit, I hadn't thought of it that way. Then my eyes were opened. These preachers wearing $2K suits and driving new BMW's are not doing the works of my god. Why is not every penny they get going back into preaching the word? Why aren't they shopping at Wal-Mart, like the people donating, instead of wearing custom made dresses and carrying designer purses? Shouldn't they be putting every penny into feeding the poor and producing free materials to share with the world? That is not what they do, and because of that, I turned away from them and their teachings.
As a contrast, I grew up in the Salvation Army. The officers live in well-repaired but not fancy houses, they drive church vans and economy vehicles. They put every penny they can back into their ministry, and they actively help others every day. Without the lure of a big money cash out for the works they do, these humble folks are providing both a hand and a heart to the people of the world. Which one reflects Messiah?
As for the coffee, I think you're looking for a demon behind every blade of grass, frankly. Each individual responds to it differently. Some people don't drink it at all, even at meetings they relax at. How much more freely will the thoughts flow and the people fellowship if they feel comfortable? I am personally trying to break the habit, but that's about my personal walk of faith, and nothing to do with judging others for having a cup of joe and settling back. I've seen the behavior you describe when food was served, when sweets were served, when tea was served, when alcohol was served, or even when someone got up to go to the bathroom. Who's to judge what is "too comfortable?" You? Not me.
Sin is sin. If people are being sinful and not focused on the meeting (if not focusing on the meeting is indeed sin,) that's about their sin and not about the coffee. If people are being "too comfortable" and slipping into gossip and talk of babies and laundry, then that's a leadership fail and not a coffee fail.
The Puritans and the early Americans used to have this idea that everyone must come into the meeting and be stern and serious, sit on wooden, uncomfortable benches and listen to hours of preaching. Was that better? Would you prefer that sort of Bible study? I'm pretty sure that's not how Paul did it, though I wasn't there to witness.
You seem awfully focused on the behaviors of others. It's obvious you have spent a great deal of time coming to this place of judgement. I hope your time and effort is not a rabbit trail that Satan gave to you so that you would spend your time writing about the behavior of other people instead of praising your god and producing works that bear fruit. Shalom.
money and coffee are perfectly ok, but human's greediness alway ruins every good things.
O
oldthennew
Guest
Allin,
our heart go out to you, the emotions that you are dealing with
create such powerful urgings and warring that can leave us
exhausted and grieve our Spirits so much.
The LORD puts us through the wringer of emotional struggles and pains
that we may be purged/refined and bring forth fruits that we never dreamed
were possible.
and of course, we know for sure that could only be possible through His most
powerful, wonderous, Holy Love.
He teaches us how to understand the emotional struggles that are going on inside
of our brothers and sisters hearts and minds,
and when we acknowledge and experience their pain and sufferings,
mixed together with GOD'S SPIRIT of LOVE, then we will bring forth
such a deeper, more compassionate Christian walk and witness for others
accompanied with a new, profound, peaceful heart.
sincerely,
oldthennew
our heart go out to you, the emotions that you are dealing with
create such powerful urgings and warring that can leave us
exhausted and grieve our Spirits so much.
The LORD puts us through the wringer of emotional struggles and pains
that we may be purged/refined and bring forth fruits that we never dreamed
were possible.
and of course, we know for sure that could only be possible through His most
powerful, wonderous, Holy Love.
He teaches us how to understand the emotional struggles that are going on inside
of our brothers and sisters hearts and minds,
and when we acknowledge and experience their pain and sufferings,
mixed together with GOD'S SPIRIT of LOVE, then we will bring forth
such a deeper, more compassionate Christian walk and witness for others
accompanied with a new, profound, peaceful heart.
sincerely,
oldthennew
S
Sirk
Guest
S
Sirk
Guest
Nope. Instead of building a dedicated worship center we raised the money to build a water park on land donated by the city. It's operated by a foundation not connected to the church. The community voted a water park down twice so we built one.
S
Sirk
Guest
It's a public water park and we pay just like anyone else. We did do baptism there last year.
S
Sirk
Guest
S
Sirk
Guest
Okay, right, I hear you! As a matter of fact I used to be into coffee. Except that in recent decades for cardiovascular reasons I myself have avoided coffee because of its effect on blood pressure, ergo: I just boiled be a cup of tea, instead.
So, yes, I realize that my wife is into yoghurt and your wife is into coffee, rejoicing in the Spirit and tattoos - and this is all great - although I myself go for tea.
(Too much information maybe.)
Blessings.
S
Sirk
Guest
I only had 3 cups of coffee in my life, when I started working in an office every mornng, because it was free. I noticed it had a greater affect on me than many of the drugs I was using, including alcohol, so I stopped. Eventually I gave up street drugs, and God delivered me from alcohol when I got saved.
Imagine my surprise as a brand new Christian when I found Christian addicts imbibing coffee night and day!!
I don't think people see the real effect coffee has on them. My mom was a severe coffee addict, also started when she worked in an office. She got to the point in her 40's where she was having heart problems and the doctor told her to quit drinking 40 cups of coffee a day. She did and went into severe withdrawal for a week, and then was depressed for months afterward. She said the world turned grey, and she could not get out of bed. I do have to commend her that after that she never drank more than a cup a day.
So yes, coffee is a serious addiction.
But as for pastors getting paid, I have seen nothing but godliness in my pastors. Maybe you are in the wrong church? A pastor has to earn a living, and even a small church is a full time job. I do my chaplaincy and do not get paid, because I have my own source of income. But I don't know how you expect those in the ministry to live if they are not paid. I have so many friends in the ministry from Seminary, and being bivocational is a very hard route to go.
Perhaps you should try visiting the sick, conducting funerals and weddings, counsel people for free and find time for sermons, family etc., before you criticize!
Imagine my surprise as a brand new Christian when I found Christian addicts imbibing coffee night and day!!
I don't think people see the real effect coffee has on them. My mom was a severe coffee addict, also started when she worked in an office. She got to the point in her 40's where she was having heart problems and the doctor told her to quit drinking 40 cups of coffee a day. She did and went into severe withdrawal for a week, and then was depressed for months afterward. She said the world turned grey, and she could not get out of bed. I do have to commend her that after that she never drank more than a cup a day.
So yes, coffee is a serious addiction.
But as for pastors getting paid, I have seen nothing but godliness in my pastors. Maybe you are in the wrong church? A pastor has to earn a living, and even a small church is a full time job. I do my chaplaincy and do not get paid, because I have my own source of income. But I don't know how you expect those in the ministry to live if they are not paid. I have so many friends in the ministry from Seminary, and being bivocational is a very hard route to go.
Perhaps you should try visiting the sick, conducting funerals and weddings, counsel people for free and find time for sermons, family etc., before you criticize!
T
Tintin
Guest
Good grief. What a silly thread. Pastors etc. should be paid. Coffee can be a problem but it's not evil. I don't drink it very often. Also, eating after church as a group has completely the opposite effect to what you've described. We come together and really get to know each other better. We have light discussions and deep faith discussions. Later, introduce the coffee, tea, hot chocolate - whatever, and these conversations still continue. I think it's more about the company you keep than serving food after church. I believe food and fellowship go hand-in-hand. Allin, you sometimes say some good things but here you just come across as critical of everything and everyone. Not cool. Yes, of course money and coffee can be a problem but I think some of your observations are rather odd and not at all what I've observed.