Trinity?

[Simona25]

Hi Simona,
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons). I'm not sure I understand your concern with calling Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost a God. I think perhaps it is more semantics that fundamental belief. It sounds like you believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father, the First Born. He is not God the Father, but has received power and authority from His Father that make him more than a "man".

Hi Karlko,
I see you are a junior member, so, welcome!
In my church (Eastern Orthodox Church) we say that Christ is God, not a God, because, we believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons (not persons like us) in one being. All three share the same being.
So, if I say that Christ is a God, I imply that the other persons of the Trinity are two other gods - that makes three gods. We believe in One God.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

If you understood the defination....you would not have doubts on who Jesus is.

Sure, it is perfectly said.

Christians, acctually, are only them who trust in Trinity.
Cause we confess Jesus as God (=Son of God) only through our faith that the mind of Jesus Christ and nature of His personality is God Son - second person of Holy Trinity.

Neither cmckey7127, nor Disciple539 are christians (though they called themselves such way in their profiles).

Following apostoles we (christians) confess our trust that Jesus personality existed before Abraham and before Adam and before even the act of creation universe.

Whoever does not trust it, can not confess Jesus as Son of God. So can not be called as christian.

 

[Nancyer]

Well hello!
All you Christians out there I want YOUR opinion!

I have studied this doctrine defined as the Trinity, and I tend to see a lot of issues with it. So I am just curious is someone that actually knows anything about it. (Not what you have always been taught, But what you have Studied) Would give me a brief but intellectual standpoint on it, in hopes of a discussion. What is the Trinity in your own words? And from a biblical point of view Why do you believe it?

I see the proof of the truth of the Trinity in that Jesus, God's Son, a man who bled and suffered, was able to perform miracles. Supernatural healing that no MAN could have done. Therefore, He had to have God within Himself. He had to be one with God, the Father. The Holy Spirit is that part of God and Jesus that helps followers know what to do, understand what is taught, and desire to be part of it all.

It's the same as a man being a son, a brother, a father, a husband and a friend all at the same time.

 

[Atwood]

Isaiah 48:16

Come near to
[2] me, hear this; from the beginning
[2] I have not spoken in secret; from the time that it was, there
[2] I am: and now
[1] the Lord YHWH has hath sent
[2] me, and
[3] His Spirit.

Is anyone reminded of the start of John?

 

[Atwood]

Simona calls the EOC a "church": "In my church (Eastern Orthodox Church)"

Simona, did you make an accidental slip?
There is and only ever has been one Church (ekklesia), the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the Catholic universal Church.
The Bible never calls a denomination nor a movement within Christendom a "church."
To speak of "the Methodist Church" or "the Easter Orthodox Church" is a misnomer.
The Church is not Eastern nor Western, nor Northern, nor Southern. It is world-wide.

Everyone who trusts the real Lord Jesus as only and sufficient Savior, is a member of that one Church. 1 Cor 12:13.
The only way to get in is by the baptism of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

It is a sorrow to me to see you praying to Mary, a non-bible practice.
How can she even hear you, since only God is omnipresent?
Are you treating her like she was a god?

 

[ThomistColin]

Simona calls the EOC a "church": "In my church (Eastern Orthodox Church)"

Simona, did you make an accidental slip?
There is and only ever has been one Church (ekklesia), the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the Catholic universal Church.
The Bible never calls a denomination nor a movement within Christendom a "church."
To speak of "the Methodist Church" or "the Easter Orthodox Church" is a misnomer.
The Church is not Eastern nor Western, nor Northern, nor Southern. It is world-wide.

Everyone who trusts the real Lord Jesus as only and sufficient Savior, is a member of that one Church. 1 Cor 12:13.
The only way to get in is by the baptism of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

It is a sorrow to me to see you praying to Mary, a non-bible practice.
How can she even hear you, since only God is omnipresent?
Are you treating her like she was a god?

Read Revelation, where angels and men bring the prayers of the faithful before God. Also, read Revelation 12, where John infers that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.

 

[Atwood]

Read Revelation, where angels and men bring the prayers of the faithful before God. Also, read Revelation 12, where John infers that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.

Well, I must say, Thomist, you have educated me on theological claims. Do any of the words "Ark," "New Covenant," and "Mary" appear in your version of Rev 12? I don't find them in mine, nor in the Greek text. Also, in my Bible there is no reference to any "Ark of the New Covenant." And what does this Mary Ark theory have to do with praying to Mary? How could she even hear prayers when only God is omnipresent?

Please give me your verse in Revelation for men in Heaven bringing prayers of men on earth before God. Since there are indeed angels around, angels could hear Christians praying, Christians who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Certainly the Lord doesn't need angels to report prayers to Him. Moreover, " For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times; - 1 Tim 2.

Now where in the Bible does it say that angels hear prayers and then bring them from earth to God?

This must be the passage to which you refer:

"3 And another angel came and stood over the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should add it to the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand."

Where in this passage is an angel bringing prayers? This angel brings incense, not prayers. He adds incense to the prayers. It doesn't say that the angel put the prayers on the altar. And what on earth does this have to do with praying to Mary or to any other saint in Heaven? BTW, I hope you realize that all Christians are called "saints" in the NT, and that there is no such special class of men in the Bible.

Indeed on earth men pray for each other, and it is proper to ask a brother on earth to pray for you, if you are a Christian. If I sitting in this room merely speak and ask a friend on the other side of town to pray for me, he won't hear me; for he is not here, and he is not omnipresent. But moreover, the kind of prayers idolaters pray to saints and to Mary are often quite different from a man on earth asking his friend on earth to pray for him. Many persons who follow the papal system speak to Mary or to the Virgin of Guadalupe as if Mary were a god.

Best wishes, Thomist

 

[Atwood]

Thomist, I answer another point you made separately, so as not to confuse the issue of how it is wrong to pray to Mary.

You seem to find Mary in Revelation 12.

I challenge you to list the things about the woman which might refer to Mary,
and then list the things about the woman which might refer to Israel.

Best wishes,
Atwood

 

[cyber_truth]

The origin of Trinity doctrine came from the early false christians. If we search deeply the true history, the Council of Nicea that flourished/formulated Trinity doctrine were only attended by false christians who collaborate with the Emperor of Rome, even the christian bishop of Rome during that time did not attend the said Council. Same Council that formulated a laws of hatred against the Jews. Only false Christians who heed the call of Emperor Constantine for reconciliation by an order of his Edict of Milan, while the true Christians were continue hiding together with the Christian Jews who were baptized in Jesus name. Trinity doctrine cannot be trusted, formulated by false christians go in hand as anti-semitism since from the past.

 

[newbirth]

Hi Karlko,
I see you are a junior member, so, welcome!
In my church (Eastern Orthodox Church) we say that Christ is God, not a God, because, we believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons (not persons like us) in one being. All three share the same being.
So, if I say that Christ is a God, I imply that the other persons of the Trinity are two other gods - that makes three gods. We believe in One God.

why do you worship Mary? Why do you have crosses and symbols and statues(idols)?
It is truly right to bless you, Theotokos, ever blessed, most pure, and mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, without corruption you gave birth to God the Word. We magnify you, the true Theotokos.

 

[newbirth]

Hi Karlko,
I see you are a junior member, so, welcome!
In my church (Eastern Orthodox Church) we say that Christ is God, not a God, because, we believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons (not persons like us) in one being. All three share the same being.
So, if I say that Christ is a God, I imply that the other persons of the Trinity are two other gods - that makes three gods. We believe in One God.

why do you worship Mary? Why do you have crosses and symbols and statues(idols)?
It is truly right to bless you, Theotokos, ever blessed, most pure, and mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, without corruption you gave birth to God the Word. We magnify you, the true Theotokos.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

This is how I personally see the Trinity you have God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit. In life we have different titles once you are a father you will always be a father. He is God, right? God the father. Once you are a son you are always a son and He still is God. God the Son. God is the Holy Spirit because that is the little small voice we listen to. Prayerfully, nobody else is speaking to you like that. God the Holy Spirit. Nothing changes He is still God He just has multiple names like we have a first, middle, and last name and maybe a nickname.

And there will only be two thrones in the new Jerusalem - why not three? If Jesus is God, then He could not have died on the cross for us as God cannot die and His crucifixion would be all but a bluff. Jesus was a God until He was instructed by God to come to earth as man, for He had to endure the same experiences that man had to experience. If you believe that they were all One, who died on the cross, God? Who did Jesus pray to while He was on the cross, Himself? Where did Jesus receive His powers from, from Himself? There are too many questions without answers if you believe that there are three separate Gods right now.
We are being bombarded by untruth teachings through the churches as most of the churches are being controlled by Satan. You need to study your Bible and to use the brain that God gave you and be logical about all your reasoning and pray to God for wisdom, and if He sees that you are truly serious about all of this, He will assist you and guide you on the right narrow path. The path to destruction is wide and that to the Truth very narrow. People like their ears to hear what they want to hear. Be very careful. There is too much deceiving going on in this world today. You may follow what I have written so far on this web site and I believe that everything that I have written is the Truth as I can prove most of it from the Word of God. My goal in life is to teach those that want to be taught about the kingdom of God and how to enter it. Have a blessed Sabbath (Saturday) today.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Hi Karlko,
I see you are a junior member, so, welcome!
In my church (Eastern Orthodox Church) we say that Christ is God, not a God, because, we believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons (not persons like us) in one being. All three share the same being.
So, if I say that Christ is a God, I imply that the other persons of the Trinity are two other gods - that makes three gods. We believe in One God.

Please provide me with proof from the Bible that God consist of three persons. Persons are tangible and God is not. You are quoting from the RCC doctrines, many of which is not true. If you cannot prove your statement from the Bible, please do not write again.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Please provide me with proof from the Bible that God consist of three persons. Persons are tangible and God is not. You are quoting from the RCC doctrines, many of which is not true. If you cannot prove your statement from the Bible, please do not write again.

See the end of Matthew 28, John's Gospel - especially chapters 13 thu 17; John's First Epistle, Romans 8, and many other passages.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

I see the proof of the truth of the Trinity in that Jesus, God's Son, a man who bled and suffered, was able to perform miracles. Supernatural healing that no MAN could have done. Therefore, He had to have God within Himself. He had to be one with God, the Father. The Holy Spirit is that part of God and Jesus that helps followers know what to do, understand what is taught, and desire to be part of it all.

It's the same as a man being a son, a brother, a father, a husband and a friend all at the same time.

The teaching today in the churches is that the Trinity consist of three separate Gods is incorrect. You cannot compare the Godhead with man being a son, a brother, a father, a husband and a friend. Man has been taught incorrectly by the RCC that there are three separate Gods and that is being repeated by most of the people in most of the churches today when they say loudly in church that they believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. There are no three Gods today. They also repeat that they believe in the One Universal Church, and guess what, RCC's other name. Please read about the Trinity what I have written and you will find much Truth as my only goal in life is to teach the Truth from the Bible to those who are interested to be taught.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The teaching today in the churches is that the Trinity consist of three separate Gods is incorrect. You cannot compare the Godhead with man being a son, a brother, a father, a husband and a friend. Man has been taught incorrectly by the RCC that there are three separate Gods and that is being repeated by most of the people in most of the churches today when they say loudly in church that they believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. There are no three Gods today. They also repeat that they believe in the One Universal Church, and guess what, RCC's other name. Please read about the Trinity what I have written and you will find much Truth as my only goal in life is to teach the Truth from the Bible to those who are interested to be taught.

The idea of three separate Gods (supposedly) is not the usual teaching.

Scripture does indeed reveal Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

In the end what matters is how Scripture reveals God and the Divine Personalities.

 

[Simona25]

Please provide me with proof from the Bible that God consist of three persons. Persons are tangible and God is not. You are quoting from the RCC doctrines, many of which is not true. If you cannot prove your statement from the Bible, please do not write again.

Persons are not necessarily tangible and I did not quote the RCC, but the Eastern Orthodox Church. We believe that Jesus Christ is God. Do you? If not, please do not write again.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

The proof is Jesus proclaiming that He is I AM! He always has been, always is, and always will be. To claim that Christ is created is to deny His words.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made, 0 us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: his...: Gr. the Son of his love
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

If you do not want to accept this fact, tear it out of your bible. I accept that Jesus has been there from the beginning, but He is the first creation of God. That is what God's Word says. I do not deny Jesus' words, maybe it is how you interpret His Words.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made, 0 us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: his...: Gr. the Son of his love
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

If you do not want to accept this fact, tear it out of your bible. I accept that Jesus has been there from the beginning, but He is the first creation of God. That is what God's Word says. I do not deny Jesus' words, maybe it is how you interpret His Words.

Firstborn refers to the Lord Jesus's pre-eminence in Creation.

He, however, is 'the only begotten of the Father'; He is the Creator, not the created.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

See the end of Matthew 28, John's Gospel - especially chapters 13 thu 17; John's First Epistle, Romans 8, and many other passages.

I might as well tell you to read your whole bible to find the truth. Give me your logical explanation with texts from the bible to explain your theory.