mailmandan,
So those who have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8) do not possess eternal life as a present possession? Is that what you are saying? What did Jesus say in John 5:24 - "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Who is confused?
never stated did not have possession, but you do NOT have it absolutely. You can lose faith, thus eternal life with Christ. Your citation has a condition in it.
Read it again - has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Jesus is the door. John 10:9 - I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. Jesus is THE DOOR. He is not simply a door to the next door. He is also not a revolving door.
two conditional statements again. You need a text that says, thus,
"he hears My word and has believed has eternal life. If anyone enters by me he will be saved. You need it say, He has been saved. YOu continually think conditional, present tense, active continuaing verbs mean it is past tense.
Faith has no content? Please define faith. Hebrews 11:1 says that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. What is the content of saving faith? Nothing?
But you change the words from just faith to saving faith. Saving faith is an active faith. It is fulfilling the purpose of why God created you and why He saved you. If our faith dies, becomes dead, then obviously we cannot have eternal life. The condition is there because God knows many will not remain faithful, just as Adam did not remain faithful.
That's not what Ephesians 2:10 says. Read verses 8-10. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. We are saved FOR good works, not by good works. Big difference.
but you are not working for salvation. That is given to you as was faith through which we are saved. The faith is that entrance into Christ. It is that fruitful faith that determines if one attains eternal life with Christ. Everything is a gift. We live and move and have our being by Grace. But we are also required to use the gifts given. Use them for the purpose for which they were given. Man was created to do the works to be perfected.
You are right, you were saved for good works. But so has every other human beings. God cannot offer eternal life to human beings unless they at least have an eternal existance. so all men got the gift, but we are to enter into Christ, then we can do the good works prepared for us to do. But if we stop then we cannot attain eternal life.
So Christ only initially saves us through faith but we ultimately save ourselves by works? Is that what you are saying? Does that agree with Ephesians 2:8-10? No it does not.
NO, He saved you and everyone from death and sin all by Himself. We cannot do it even if we tried, and works would not help us anyway since they cannot grant eternal existence, only Christ's resurrection can give life to man/world.
But He saved us so that He might have a relationship with the creature He created specifically to be in communion with Him, but it was to be freely entered into and if we entered, we are required to meet the conditions of that union which is to work with Him. Not hard to understand.
Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. The goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. Absolute perfection (sinless, without fault or defect, flawless) for us will not become a reality until Christ returns and then we will be made perfect with Christ. Have you bought into the lie of Satan that becoming sinless, without fault or defect, flawless in this life is the basis by which you will receive eternal life?
We don't become perfect, we shall never be perfect because we are creatures. We will always be attaining toward perfection even in heaven. Each person is at different stages or levels. But that is absolutely the goal. Christ commanded us to be perfect as he is perfect. That is not a satan teaching, but Christ. That is why He is the perfect model and example for our faith.
If that is NOT in your understanding of scripture, you have missed the Gospel completely.
Faith does more than simply get us in the door. From beginning (have been saved through faith - Ephesians 2:8) to end (receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls - 1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through FAITH in Christ.
Simple faith does justify one, but does not save one. It is then through that faith, the active, continuous faith that will save us. You recieve the end the salvation of ones soul. You don't have it absolutely without the testing, the maturity, the endurance to the end.
John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
two conditional words again. NOthing absolute in the past tense.
Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. If we are justified by faith, then we currently have eternal life as a present possession (John 5:24). Relationship restored through faith.
through faith, NO faith or faithless means no salvation.
So just how faithful do we have to be? According to your logic, that could include any number of good works but no assurance of eternal life. 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Receiving the end of our faith--the salvation of our souls is being faithful to the end.
Continuous good works. NO works equals no faith, no faith, no eternal life. YOu have that conditional present tense, continuous active verb (believes). Receiving the END OF OUR FAITH, not the beginning, the salvation of our souls.
You are confusing Justification with ongoing Sanctification.
If on is no longer being sanctified, then one no longer is justified either. They work in tandem, not separately. How can you be justified by faith if you have no faith, or lose faith, become faithless.
I don't confuse what we are saved BY with what we are saved FOR, as you do.
I'll admit that you should not be confused with whatever it is that you believe, but you are not aligned with scripture as all Christians have always believed from the beginning.
Salvation has three tenses. We have been saved from the penalty of sin (Justification) we are being saved from the power of sin (ongoing Sanctification) and we will be saved from the presence of sin (Glorification). These tenses often get mixed up by works salvationists.
Yes, saved (past tense) from death and sin, present tense ( to eternal life) future, the culmination of ones faith, eternity with Christ.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. Eternal life is not about working with God in order to help Him save you.
Yes, that is exactly what you are doing. That is the meaning of the phrase, working out one's salvation with fear and trembling. That is the goal and purpose of our existence, to become Christlike, to be conformed into His Image.
What more do I need to accomplish and add to the cross? His sacrifice was sufficient and complete. No supplements needed.
because it has nothing to do with the Cross. Christ saved you and everyone else from death and sin. YOu don't need to help Him do that, as if one could. But you can work with Him to perfect yourself as a human being.
1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.. Do you believe in the name of the Son of God? Do you know that you have eternal life?
conditional again. Nothing absolute. You are NOT saved just because you once believed.
WOW! So you are not trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption? You don't believe in your heart (but only in your head) that God raised Him from the dead? (Romans 10:9). You don't believe the gospel? (Romans 1:16). What do you think it means to BELIEVE in Him? (John 3:16,18,36; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31).
Well, Satan believes the same thing. But now what are you going to do with that Gift. He gave it to all men so that you could accept His offer of union, eternal life with Him. But it requires a lot more than faith only and definitely not upon one moment of affirmation. Your faith will be tested for a lifetime, remaining faithful.
WOW! 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned.. Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. 2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Are you ready to repent and believe the gospel?
Did you notice all the conditions in the above paragraph. Nothing in that whole statement says you have eternal life absolutely from the past. You have ONLY in the present tense now. It is NOT addressing your future. That is an open book for you and for anyone else. You cannot guarantee your faith. That is why all the warnings which you dismiss as pertaining to some newly defined form of faith as fake, or counterfeit. If you lose faith, you lose eternal life with Christ.
