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I like what Jesus said to Peter...."On this rock I will build my church". Prior to Jesus making that statement He asked who Peter who he thought He was. Peter said.."you are the Messiah. It was a profession of faith in Jesus...by Peter.. and it was that very thing (a profession of faith in Jesus by each individual) that Christ would build His church. Not on baptism or works or winning an argument...but just simply on professing Jesus as Messiah and pledging to follow Him.
So if you have done that...you are part of Jesus' church.
So if you have done that...you are part of Jesus' church.
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Was He=eternally-up;1523620]
It certainly does not say what you think it says.
And again with the attacks. is that all you know how to do? Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they do not have Godly knowledge. [/QUOTE]
I was merely quoting notuptpme from a previous post. I do not attack unless someone else does it first. Did you tell notuptome he was wrong for saying that to another poster? I didn't think so.
It certainly does not say what you think it says.
And again with the attacks. is that all you know how to do? Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they do not have Godly knowledge. [/QUOTE]
I was merely quoting notuptpme from a previous post. I do not attack unless someone else does it first. Did you tell notuptome he was wrong for saying that to another poster? I didn't think so.
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Well if it said that. Maybe you could. But you will never help anyone by saying this, it says be baptized BECAUSE of remission of sin, Not for the remission of sin came from repenting. But you refuse to see this, So your the one who can not be helped.
Your adding the word water to col 2, No water is mentioned nor is it referred to. Col 2 is referencing the literal act of God removing the curse of the law from you by the baptism of the spirit. Not any baptism in water. It even tells you this, But you want to replace the hand of God with the hand of men.
Your the one with the straw man saying you can;t help anyone. Like your brother all you know how to do is attack you do not want to discuss the word.
Your adding the word water to col 2, No water is mentioned nor is it referred to. Col 2 is referencing the literal act of God removing the curse of the law from you by the baptism of the spirit. Not any baptism in water. It even tells you this, But you want to replace the hand of God with the hand of men.
Your the one with the straw man saying you can;t help anyone. Like your brother all you know how to do is attack you do not want to discuss the word.
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
(Isaiah 65:1)
was Paul saved by preaching? why didn't the Holy Spirit see fit to record whether Paul had been baptized or not?
but the Word came to Saul, and Saul believed, and Saul gave the glory of his redemption to no earthly device or action but to God alone, in the Lord Jesus Christ.
and Paul says to us:
salvation is by faith (Romans 5:1)
faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Romans 10:17)
though Paul spoke this Word in many people's hearing, did Paul say "i have saved you" or "my preaching has saved you?"
no, Paul said he is a slave of Christ (Romans 1:1)
and that God alone saves, as a gift received in faith, not a reward for dutiful labor (Romans 3:21-31)
so he did not count it honor to preach, but duty.
this Paul said justification takes place in your heart, and salvation on your lips when you confess Jesus as Lord (Romans 10:10).
this is the gospel i have received, and this is the salvation i ever rejoice in.
having received it and having confessed it i gladly became publicly baptized into this faith, and gladly proclaim the same!
even if 10,000 read what i write and the Spirit uses the words to call them into Christ, i will not say "my words saved 10,000" ore even one! but God alone saves.
i don't wish to dispute whether anyone should be baptized, or whether anyone should preach the gospel. that's madness.
i only wish to point at Jesus as the author and finisher of my faith, and not to turn His commands into idolatry.
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
(Isaiah 65:1)
was Paul saved by preaching? why didn't the Holy Spirit see fit to record whether Paul had been baptized or not?
but the Word came to Saul, and Saul believed, and Saul gave the glory of his redemption to no earthly device or action but to God alone, in the Lord Jesus Christ.
and Paul says to us:
salvation is by faith (Romans 5:1)
faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Romans 10:17)
though Paul spoke this Word in many people's hearing, did Paul say "i have saved you" or "my preaching has saved you?"
no, Paul said he is a slave of Christ (Romans 1:1)
and that God alone saves, as a gift received in faith, not a reward for dutiful labor (Romans 3:21-31)
so he did not count it honor to preach, but duty.
this Paul said justification takes place in your heart, and salvation on your lips when you confess Jesus as Lord (Romans 10:10).
this is the gospel i have received, and this is the salvation i ever rejoice in.
having received it and having confessed it i gladly became publicly baptized into this faith, and gladly proclaim the same!
even if 10,000 read what i write and the Spirit uses the words to call them into Christ, i will not say "my words saved 10,000" ore even one! but God alone saves.
i don't wish to dispute whether anyone should be baptized, or whether anyone should preach the gospel. that's madness.
i only wish to point at Jesus as the author and finisher of my faith, and not to turn His commands into idolatry.
Look at the fact brother.
1. You said there is no Holy spirit baptism today.
Can you provide with the verse. Baptism is immersion. Only if one immerse in the Holy spirit will bear the fruit. Only if the branch abide to the vine will bear the fruit.
2. If water baptism cause person bear the fruit, than look at the fact. A lot of drug dealer in mexico was baptized.
1. You said there is no Holy spirit baptism today.
Can you provide with the verse. Baptism is immersion. Only if one immerse in the Holy spirit will bear the fruit. Only if the branch abide to the vine will bear the fruit.
2. If water baptism cause person bear the fruit, than look at the fact. A lot of drug dealer in mexico was baptized.
Let us use care not to create a mythology in place of our theology. Water does not save. Only the blood atones of sin. Water is symbolic of life but the blood is actual atonement.
You cannot have physical life without water and you cannot have atonement for sin without blood.
The bible teaches water baptism for obedience and blood for atonement of our sins. The bible does not teach salvation by water baptism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You cannot have physical life without water and you cannot have atonement for sin without blood.
The bible teaches water baptism for obedience and blood for atonement of our sins. The bible does not teach salvation by water baptism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Acts 2:38 is one of the more abused and perverted verse by those trying to get the necessity of water baptism out of it.
Acts 2:38 is not the only salvic verse in the bible, but it is the only verses needed to make water baptism essential to salvation. It is VERY BAD logic/exegesis to think because baptism is not mentioned in ALL salvic verses that eliminates it from being essential too being saved. Many salvic verses do not even mention 'grace' or the 'blood of Christ' much less baptism but that does not eliminate grace or the blood of Christ from salvation no more than it eliminates water baptism.
So those that remain faithful to their false man-made doctrines continue to reject the simplicity of God's word.
Acts 2:21-------whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord>>>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:38-------repent and be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins
Since there is just one way to be saved/have sins remitted, then calling upon the name of the Lord means to repent and be baptized. So we have Joel's prophecy being fulfilled in verse 38.
This is an old argument that has never held water. Simply trying to redefine Greek words to fit a preconceived bias. Eis is in the Greek is never causal, it always looks forward, to obtain.
1) Peter said repent AND be baptized. The conjunction 'and" ties repentance to baptism making them inseparable and both come BEFORE remission of sins. So if one is baptized BECAUSE his sins are already remitted then one repents BECAUSE his sins are already remitted, which is impossible for there no way to repent of sins that have already been remitted..
2)
Mt 26:28 "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for (eis) the remission of sins."
Did Jesus shed His blood BECAUSE sins were already remitted? No, impossible
1 Tim 1:16 "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to (eis) life everlasting.
Do people believe on Christ BECAUSE they already have everlasting life, that is, people are saved BEFORE they even have faith?
3) I am not too far away todayfrom a place called Union University, a Baptist based University. They once had a professor there named Charles Williams:
Charles B. Williams (Baptist), who has been Dean of Southwestern Seminary, President of Samford University, Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Mercer University and Professor of Greek and Ethics at Union University unequivocally states that “eis is always prospective”
The Preposition "eis" in Acts 2:38 sermon, The Preposition "eis" in Acts 2:38 sermon by Scott Coltrain, Acts - SermonCentral.com
Above is a link to many more Greek scholars, some of which as Prof Williams, belong to denominations that teach that water baptism does not save, all say eis is looking forward, to obtain. They did not let their personal theological bias stand in the way of their Greek scholarship.
4) In Luke 5:14 "And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for (peri) thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for (eis) a testimony unto them."
According to Blueletterbible that I have access to right now, the Greek word used for "for" in verse 14 is NOT "eis" but "peri".
In Mt 12:41 that repented at the preaching of Jonah. This means they repented in order for their lives to reflect that of Jonah's preaching,
For more detailed information on Mt 12:41, see link below:
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1152-use-of-the-preposition-eis-in-matthew-12-41-the
How can I help anyone that rejects the bible for their own personal philosophy?
Col 2 the baptism is a "burial" where one is "risen" from..a watery grave where one is risen. This is the one baptism of Eph 4:5, the human administered water baptism of Christ's great commission. The verse say nothing about some "spirit baptism"
You posted "You would rather have your sins by Water, And not By God himself. and that is a sad state of affairs my friend."
So what do you mean by "You would rather have your sins by WATER"?
So because someone says water baptism does not save - we are hereticks?
Water baptism does not save you - your faith in Jesus Christ saves you - water baptism is a SYMBOL of that faith. It is a SYMBOL of death and resurrection - does death and resurrection actually occur - of course not. It is a SYMBOL of being cleansed - are you actually cleansed, changed into a new person - nope.
But holy Spirit baptism does create in you a new creature, the new man. John did come baptizing with water - Jesus baptizes with 'living water', i.e. holy Spirit (John 7:48,49) which cleanses you from the inside out. [Col 3:10] That new man created in you is renewed in knowledge after the image (spirit) of him (God) that created him (the new man - spirit). [Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him . . . Sound familiar?] Now that born again spirit within us can communicate with God and have fellowship with him as in the beginning before the fall - that brothers and sisters is TRUE reconciliation!
And if I am a heretick for believing that - so be it.
Water baptism does not save you - your faith in Jesus Christ saves you - water baptism is a SYMBOL of that faith. It is a SYMBOL of death and resurrection - does death and resurrection actually occur - of course not. It is a SYMBOL of being cleansed - are you actually cleansed, changed into a new person - nope.
But holy Spirit baptism does create in you a new creature, the new man. John did come baptizing with water - Jesus baptizes with 'living water', i.e. holy Spirit (John 7:48,49) which cleanses you from the inside out. [Col 3:10] That new man created in you is renewed in knowledge after the image (spirit) of him (God) that created him (the new man - spirit). [Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him . . . Sound familiar?] Now that born again spirit within us can communicate with God and have fellowship with him as in the beginning before the fall - that brothers and sisters is TRUE reconciliation!
And if I am a heretick for believing that - so be it.
Acts 2:38 is the baptism of Christ's great commission, Lk 24:47; Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:16,16 which is human administed water baptism No one is ever commanded to be baptized with the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit was a promise made only to the apostles, Acts 1:1-5. The eunuch was water baptized not baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Jn 3:5------------spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.in the kingdom
1cor12;13--------spirit+++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5----------Holy Ghost+++++washing of reg.>>>>>>>>saved
all there verses say the same thing, clearly Tts 3:5 refers to water baptism.
I see it is easy for some to post on this forum who just deny things or say things they cannot prove.
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we (Jews) shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they (Gentiles)." - the Gentiles in Acts 10 were saved before they ever hit the water.
If faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God - and faith in Jesus Christ comes from believing what we hear and we are saved by our faith in/through him - then those that hear and have faith are saved before the water so it's not the water that saves.
If faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God - and faith in Jesus Christ comes from believing what we hear and we are saved by our faith in/through him - then those that hear and have faith are saved before the water so it's not the water that saves.
Protestants have been arguing for 500 years. What makes you think that it will change anytime soon.
Your comments shows not only a disconnect between salvation and attaining eternal life but also separated the Holy Spirit from the use of water. John 3:5 is quite simple. Has NEVER been a problem for Christians prior to the Reformation. As to being "saved" either before baptism or after, or not at all, are all misconceptions of the sola scriptura milieu. A controversy ONLY exists within the sola scriptura milieu. Since man is his own authority as a sola scripturists that will not ever end until the end of time.
Your comments shows not only a disconnect between salvation and attaining eternal life but also separated the Holy Spirit from the use of water. John 3:5 is quite simple. Has NEVER been a problem for Christians prior to the Reformation. As to being "saved" either before baptism or after, or not at all, are all misconceptions of the sola scriptura milieu. A controversy ONLY exists within the sola scriptura milieu. Since man is his own authority as a sola scripturists that will not ever end until the end of time.