Does water baptism save us

[Apostol2013]

Any minister of the gospel strives to be a faithfull stuart of God's house therefore to teach that the baptisms or any commandments are not nesesary for salvation are teachers of disorder against the faith delivered by chr8st or His holy apostles even though salvation by itself does not save but rejecting the baptism or teaching not to is a rebellion against God in danger of hell's fires but be a good stuart of God's house...

 

[Jackson123]

Any minister of the gospel strives to be a faithfull stuart of God's house therefore to teach that the baptisms or any commandments are not nesesary for salvation are teachers of disorder against the faith delivered by chr8st or His holy apostles even though salvation by itself does not save but rejecting the baptism or teaching not to is a rebellion against God in danger of hell's fires but be a good stuart of God's house...

Let me ask you Question brother.

Mr X was baptized (water baptized) in the year 2001.

He was a rapist and still is. up to this day.

do you believe that Mr X save?

 

[Kerry]

Kerry check this verses and make up your own mind as to what they tell you,
Mat 21:25 the baptism of John where was it from, from heaven or from MAN? you can read up to 27,

Now after Jesus was risen, he tell his disciples Mark 16:15-16 go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature

v 16. HE who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will BE SAVED, but he who does not believe will be CONDEMNED.

NO ONE in the gospels OR epistles ever said, one does not need to be baptized with water to be saved, NOT ONE,
the denial of water baptism is now days false doctrine ,

one can not itemize water baptism from spiritual baptism, belief ,obey,..all the above are inseparable if one teaches the doctrine
of Christ,..

So if Jesus questioned the Pharisees about Johns baptism whether or not was commanded from heaven or from MAN,
So I question this, IS Jesus baptism from heaven or from MAN, in light of Mark 16:16 commandments to his disciples,?
God Bless..

Was John the Baptist baptized? Can you give scripture where any one of the 12 were baptized?

 

[Kerry]

So y'all are willing to go so far to say that the cross of Christ is not enough to save a person?

 

[Kerry]

Why don't we just spit on the cross and call it worthless.

 

[SarahM777]

the blood testified of Jesus suffering and pain.

the water testified that he was truly dead

The spirit (through the word) testifies that these two things occurred.

Has nothing to do with water baptism. It has to do with what saved us.

Yes water baptism MAY symbolize this, But that would be taking it a little far don;t you think? Do we focus on the cross. or do we focus on water baptism?

The jews focused on circumcision and not what it represented. that is why they demanded everyone get circumcised. Many in the church are doing the exact same thing with baptism.

Do you understand that BAPTISM points to the CROSS? God has chosen to use baptism as the means by which we are BURIED with Christ and raised to new life. It is THROUGH baptism that we are cleansed by the washing of the water through the word. Those things are a working of the Holy Spirit NOT man.

No matter how much one wants to slice and dice it,even you stated that the water showed that Jesus had died,that water was part of His death. And yet people want to remove that very fact,and say that the Bible is speaking of baptism of the Holy Spirit in those passages. How can one NOT get the connection between the water of baptism and the cross,especially when the bible says over and over again that we are BURIED WITH CHRIST IN BAPTISM? How can anyone say that baptism is NOT POINTING TO THE CROSS?

 

[Kerry]

Do you understand that BAPTISM points to the CROSS? God has chosen to use baptism as the means by which we are BURIED with Christ and raised to new life. It is THROUGH baptism that we are cleansed by the washing of the water through the word. Those things are a working of the Holy Spirit NOT man.

No matter how much one wants to slice and dice it,even you stated that the water showed that Jesus had died,that water was part of His death. And yet people want to remove that very fact,and say that the Bible is speaking of baptism of the Holy Spirit in those passages. How can one NOT get the connection between the water of baptism and the cross,especially when the bible says over and over again that we are BURIED WITH CHRIST IN BAPTISM? How can anyone say that baptism is NOT POINTING TO THE CROSS?

No these people spit on the cross and say you have to be baptized in order to be saved. They have no need for the cross since water baptism has saved them.

 

[Kerry]

I love you guy's and believe it or not I am trying to help you. I know that tens of thousands trust in this doctrine of salvation by baptism. I do not deny that most of you truly love God. This doctrine has tens of thousands perplexed. Most are living in sin, including their pastors. But the don't know what to do. They say I know I have been saved and I was baptized, but why do I keep doing this stupid thing and I hate it.

The reason my brothers and sisters is that your faith has been turned from the only thing that God will accept and that is the crucifixion of His Son. Why did Paul write, being saved and baptized in water and in the Holy Spirit, O wretched man that I am. Why did he write that he was held captive (bondage) by sin. Then was revealed to him the law Of the Spirit. That the Holy Spirit will only work in our life as our faith is placed in the lamb of God. We can only be free from the power (sin nature) of sin if our faith is placed in the work of the cross and not that of our own.

It is not baptism, it is not works, it is the Cross of Christ and nothing else.

If you want to live in victory, then place your faith in the work of Christ. No one in heaven was able to open the book and I was sad, then I heard a ruckus and was told that the lamb was coming and he was the only one worthy to open the book.

If your faith is in the work of the cross then your name is in the book whether you have been baptized or not.

Praise be to Lamb of God. Amen

 

[SarahM777]

No these people spit on the cross and say you have to be baptized in order to be saved. They have no need for the cross since water baptism has saved them.

There is a question that is really needs to be asked,Can one really say they have saving faith if one does not do? (I am not talking about being perfect) Can one really say they believe God when we are told to be baptized and then one does NOT do it?

See if one says that it is baptism in and of itself that saves that is wrong. Faith MUST be at the heart of anything we do that can please God. Baptism is a RESPONSE to that faith.

 

[Kerry]

There is a question that is really needs to be asked,Can one really say they have saving faith if one does not do? (I am not talking about being perfect) Can one really say they believe God when we are told to be baptized and then one does NOT do it?

See if one says that it is baptism in and of itself that saves that is wrong. Faith MUST be at the heart of anything we do that can please God. Baptism is a RESPONSE to that faith.

You are on your way may God bless you and keep you.

 

[mailmandan]

READ the verse.

I read the verse and once again, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is the SHOW the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. I will SHOW you my faith by my works. Show me where James or Paul ever said "saved by works." Paul said saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9); not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us (Titus 3:5); who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works (2 Timothy 1:9).

I have added nothing and you know it.

You certainly have added "water and works" to salvation through faith. I believe that man is saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works. You simply believe that we are saved through faith AND works.

You just want to misrepresent what I believe so you can have an argument and THATS the reality.

I didn't misrepresent what you believe. I've read through many of your posts and it's very obvious what you believe and I also at one time had attended a church of Christ so I understand how they try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith.

 

[Kerry]

There is a question that is really needs to be asked,Can one really say they have saving faith if one does not do? (I am not talking about being perfect) Can one really say they believe God when we are told to be baptized and then one does NOT do it?

See if one says that it is baptism in and of itself that saves that is wrong. Faith MUST be at the heart of anything we do that can please God. Baptism is a RESPONSE to that faith.

I would point out that it is not the baptism that saves, it is faith in the work of the cross and nothing else. Baptism in water is physical show of an inner change. The cross changed you and then you want to be baptized in water. No sinner wants to be baptized in water unless he or she is looking for a cop out. I have none many people that are drunks (because I was one) and I talk to them about salvation and some say, hey I'm good with God cause 5 years ago I was baptized and these people preach this junk. Then they will go so far as to say well you really didn't get saved you just thought you was. It just didn't take, maybe next month or next year if you really are more sincere than you was this time then maybe just maybe He will save you.

 

[Kerry]

I meant even if they have been baptized and been in their church for 13 years.

 

[Kerry]

I meant if that aint the devil then I don't know anything. and some won't let you be members if you don't make enough money. Devil, Devil, Devil.

 

[Kerry]

I meant wouldn't you have hate it if your church told Bill Gates when he was a young man that he didn't make enough money to be a member of your church? some church did.

 

[mailmandan]

Acts 10:44 says "while he spake" yet the context of Acts 10 does not define when "while" is..."while" could be at the beginning, in the middle or near the end of Peter's sermon. But Acts 11:4 cf Acts 11:15 tells us "while" means 'began to speak"

I addressed this argument in post #507. Did you ever read it?

In Acts 11, Peter is explaining the events that took place in chapter 10. If you would finish reading through verse 17, you would see they received the Holy Spirit WHEN they BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, not before they heard nothing at all. *Compare this with Acts 16:31, "BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED." Acts 10:44 says, "THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME ON ALL WHO HEARD THE MESSAGE," not on all who heard nothing.

Acts 10:44 - While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. "Began to speak" (Acts 11:15) and "still speaking" (Acts 10:44) are not in contradiction. Acts 10:44 says, while he was "still speaking," which means, he already started talking and said, "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS" (Acts 10:43). So obviously, began to speak can't mean, said nothing at all yet, because that would contradict, "still speaking." There is a difference between "as" I began to speak and "before" I began to speak.

 

[Kerry]

I addressed this argument in post #507. Did you ever read it?

In Acts 11, Peter is explaining the events that took place in chapter 10. If you would finish reading through verse 17, you would see they received the Holy Spirit WHEN they BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, not before they heard nothing at all. *Compare this with Acts 16:31, "BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED." Acts 10:44 says, "THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME ON ALL WHO HEARD THE MESSAGE," not on all who heard nothing.

Acts 10:44 - While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. "Began to speak" (Acts 11:15) and "still speaking" (Acts 10:44) are not in contradiction. Acts 10:44 says, while he was "still speaking," which means, he already started talking and said, "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS" (Acts 10:43). So obviously, began to speak can't mean, said nothing at all yet, because that would contradict, "still speaking." There is a difference between "as" I began to speak and "before" I began to speak.

Sea bass is locked into doctrine and is so blind that the light is not visible. He has no need of the cross and therefore can not even imagine what you say.

 

[mailmandan]

Sea bass is locked into doctrine and is so blind that the light is not visible. He has no need of the cross and therefore can not even imagine what you say.

What you said reminds me of what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[saved1975]

Acts 15:7-9 does not say "water baptism does not say". You are obviously forcing/adding that idea into God's Word.

Acts 15: 7--9 Doesn't mention water baptism at all, Proving that it doesn't save.

You had no right to be baptised, Because you weren't saved.

 

[saved1975]

Water baptism was the one like manner way Jews and Gentiles are saved: the Jews Acts 2; the eunuch, Simon, Samaritans Acts 8; Saul Acts 9/22, Gentiles Acts 10; Lydia, jailer Acts 16, Corinthians Acts 18.


Water baptism is for the remission of sins Acts 2:38. Since no one will be saved in his unremitted sins, then no one can be saved until they are water baptized.

Water baptism doesn't remit sins, And it doesn't save, If you think you were saved through water baptism, Then your not saved, That could be the reason that you can't understand the truth.

I have shown you from the Bible and the Greek, That water baptism doesn't save.