Does water baptism save us

[eternally-gratefull]

How can I help anyone that rejects the bible for their own personal philosophy?

Your doing it. Thats why you can;t help anyone

Col 2 the baptism is a "burial" where one is "risen" from..a watery grave where one is risen. This is the one baptism of Eph 4:5, the human administered water baptism of Christ's great commission. The verse say nothing about some "spirit baptism"

Col 2 is a baptism not done with hands or physical water. Eph 4: 5 is a washing which is done by the word which coincides with John 6 and the words he spoke. : [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

No mention of baptism in John 6, yet the whole context speaks of how one gets life eternal. I guess your gonna try to bring water into John 6 also?

 

[SeaBass]

Acts 15:11"But we believe that we (Jews) shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they (Gentiles)." - the Gentiles in Acts 10 were saved before they ever hit the water.

If faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God - and faith in Jesus Christ comes from believing what we hear and we are saved by our faith in/through him - then those that hear and have faith are saved before the water so it's not the water that saves.

Acts 2:38, baptism is for the remission of sins.

Logically then the Gentiles' sins were not remitted until they obeyed the command to be water baptized. They were not accepted with God until they "worked righteousness", v35. They also had not heard the saving 'words' from Peter when the Holy Ghost fell upon them so it is not possible, nor does the context say, they were saved before they were water baptized.

The Jews in Acts 2 were water baptized as the Gentiles in Acts, as the eunuch, the jailer, Lydia, Simon, Samaritans all water baptized for that is the like manner way Jews and Gentiles are saved, Acts 15:11.


It's God that saves and God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves.

 

[SeaBass]

Your doing it. Thats why you can;t help anyone


Col 2 is a baptism not done with hands or physical water. Eph 4: 5 is a washing which is done by the word which coincides with John 6 and the words he spoke. : [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

No mention of baptism in John 6, yet the whole context speaks of how one gets life eternal. I guess your gonna try to bring water into John 6 also?

When Acts 2:38 says be baptized for remission of sins and people says it does not say that....there's nothing can be done for those people.

Col 2 says nothing about a baptism made without hands. It is Christ's human administered baptism of the great commission.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When Acts 2:38 says be baptized for remission of sins and people says it does not say that....there's nothing can be done for those people.

It does not say it. So your right. You can't help us see it your way

Col 2 says nothing about a baptism made without hands. It is Christ's human administered baptism of the great commission.

Col 2 says a baptism done by the work of God, who raised him (Christ) from the dead. Unless your priest or pastor raised Christ from the dead, You have no argument, End of story

 

[Jackson123]

Acts 2:38, baptism is for the remission of sins.

Logically then the Gentiles' sins were not remitted until they obeyed the command to be water baptized. They were not accepted with God until they "worked righteousness", v35. They also had not heard the saving 'words' from Peter when the Holy Ghost fell upon them so it is not possible, nor does the context say, they were saved before they were water baptized.

The Jews in Acts 2 were water baptized as the Gentiles in Acts, as the eunuch, the jailer, Lydia, Simon, Samaritans all water baptized for that is the like manner way Jews and Gentiles are saved, Acts 15:11.


It's God that saves and God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves.

[SUP]38[/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptize mean immerse.

Brother can you show me where the word water in this verse.

It say be baptize in the name of Jesus.

Mean be immerse in Jesus. Yes it is the requirement of salvation to immerse in Jesus.

Not on water.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[SUP]38[/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptize mean immerse.

Brother can you show me where the word water in this verse.

It say be baptize in the name of Jesus.

Mean be immerse in Jesus. Yes it is the requirement of salvation to immerse in Jesus.

Not on water.

I think Peter was talking about water. He told them (singular) who had repented (plural) to be baptized. Then it says they who believed (repented) were baptized.

The problem is in the english text. It does not show the greek tense and plurality of the words.

 

[Kerry]

What does this mean?

[h=3]James 5:19-20[/h]King James Version (KJV)

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

no baptism here.

 

[Linda70]

Baptism for salvation is NOT taught in the Bible.

 

[notuptome]

Acts 2:38 is the baptism of Christ's great commission, Lk 24:47; Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:16,16 which is human administed water baptism No one is ever commanded to be baptized with the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit was a promise made only to the apostles, Acts 1:1-5. The eunuch was water baptized not baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Well the Holy Spirit is promised to all who receive Christ not exclusively to the apostles. I can see why you are confused. In John 3:5 we find Jesus explaining to Nicodemus what the question was in verse 4 when Nicodemus asked how he could re-enter his mothers womb and be re-born. Jesus says that it is necessary to be born of water from his mothers womb and then to be born of the Spirit in the new birth

The promise of the Holy Spirit was first to the apostles then to all flesh which you can read in Joel 2. The presence of the Holy Spirit in new Christians is throughout Acts and they were not apostles. So you do not have Acts 1:1-5 in biblical context. The eunuch in Acts was first saved, baptized in the Holy Spirit then baptized in water by Philip. So that is self defeating to your argument.

Jn 3:5------------spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.in the kingdom
1cor12;13--------spirit+++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5----------Holy Ghost+++++washing of reg.>>>>>>>>saved


all there verses say the same thing, clearly Tts 3:5 refers to water baptism.



I see it is easy for some to post on this forum who just deny things or say things they cannot prove.

Well they all have the English word baptize in them but they none of them actually speak of water. The water is clearly forced into these verses by a predetermined false doctrinal position.

It is indeed difficult to prove things that are obviously false.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jackson123]

I think Peter was talking about water. He told them (singular) who had repented (plural) to be baptized. Then it says they who believed (repented) were baptized.

The problem is in the english text. It does not show the greek tense and plurality of the words.

This is the verse brother. Baptize / immerse in the name of Jesus.

There isn't word water in this verse.

Yes if you immerse in Jesus you will save.

If I in you and you in Me.


[SUP]38[/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[notuptome]

Well after this little gem, it certainly proves you don't have Godly knowledge. Have you even read Acts 2:38? It's really extremely simple. Now you may not like what it says, but that doesn't change anything.

The verse in Acts 2:38 uses baptize not the water baptism word bapto. Both are translated in to the English baptize but the are quite different in the original greek. A simple Strongs Concordance could solve this translational error for you. There are many available on line or you could find one in a book store.

I see you like to snipe but I have not seen much content from you. If you have something to contribute here is the place to do it. I am patient so I'll just keep watch.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nick1939]

because I need a man to tell me whether or not I'm saved or not?

Kerry check this verses and make up your own mind as to what they tell you,
Mat 21:25 the baptism of John where was it from, from heaven or from MAN? you can read up to 27,

Now after Jesus was risen, he tell his disciples Mark 16:15-16 go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature

v 16. HE who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will BE SAVED, but he who does not believe will be CONDEMNED.

NO ONE in the gospels OR epistles ever said, one does not need to be baptized with water to be saved, NOT ONE,
the denial of water baptism is now days false doctrine ,

one can not itemize water baptism from spiritual baptism, belief ,obey,..all the above are inseparable if one teaches the doctrine
of Christ,..

So if Jesus questioned the Pharisees about Johns baptism whether or not was commanded from heaven or from MAN,
So I question this, IS Jesus baptism from heaven or from MAN, in light of Mark 16:16 commandments to his disciples,?
God Bless..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is the verse brother. Baptize / immerse in the name of Jesus.

There isn't word water in this verse.

Yes if you immerse in Jesus you will save.

If I in you and you in Me.


[SUP]38[/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You need to read in the greek.

He commanded them to repent, and they would recieve the gift of the spirit. Then he commanded them who had received remission of sin to be baptized.

He would not command people who were already saved to be baptized unless it was in water. They had already been baptized in the spirit.

 

[notuptome]

Kerry check this verses and make up your own mind as to what they tell you,
Mat 21:25 the baptism of John where was it from, from heaven or from MAN? you can read up to 27,

Now after Jesus was risen, he tell his disciples Mark 16:15-16 go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature

v 16. HE who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will BE SAVED, but he who does not believe will be CONDEMNED.

NO ONE in the gospels OR epistles ever said, one does not need to be baptized with water to be saved, NOT ONE,
the denial of water baptism is now days false doctrine ,

one can not itemize water baptism from spiritual baptism, belief ,obey,..all the above are inseparable if one teaches the doctrine
of Christ,..

So if Jesus questioned the Pharisees about Johns baptism whether or not was commanded from heaven or from MAN,
So I question this, IS Jesus baptism from heaven or from MAN, in light of Mark 16:16 commandments to his disciples,?
God Bless..

Mark 16:16 is not in the earliest manuscripts and is generally accepted to be an addition by a scribe. the actual long ending of Mark 16 is lost what you have past verse 9 is unreliable and not wholly supported by the rest of scripture.

If I were to base doctrine on Mark 16:16 I would consider on the parts that agree with the rest of scripture. If you do a Strongs number look up on the verse you will see that the English word baptize comes from the greek word Baptizo which indicates Holy Spirit baptism not water. Bapto is water Baptizo is Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jackson123]

You need to read in the greek.

He commanded them to repent, and they would recieve the gift of the spirit. Then he commanded them who had received remission of sin to be baptized.

He would not command people who were already saved to be baptized unless it was in water. They had already been baptized in the spirit.

brother In my understanding, we interpret bible use other verse.

In the verse bellow said the requirement of salvation is just call His name.

Of course it mean invite Jesus to the heart. It not even mention water baptism. Yes after Jesus in his heart then as a fruit of salvation he will testified in the church in form of water baptism.



Roman 10:13


For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.



Let Make simple test.

Jesus said if the branch abide to the vine, it will bear fruit.

John 15:
[SUP]3[/SUP] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6[/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

In order to bear fruit, one must abide/invite/ immerse in Jesus then he save.
> He save because immerse in Jesus.

Then as a product of salvation he bear the fruit.

1.> how do you know you are save? by examine you fruit. Do you have love, joy etc (gal 5). If he was a rapist now a lover.

2. Let assume water baptism save us.
Then we examine the fact. I life in the small town where only few hundred resident and it is in the border.
I know a people that had been baptize from all kind of religious back ground and doing drug dealer.

Let me remind you one more time. The fruit of salvation is (gal 5).
Mr x had been water baptized.

Mr X is drug dealer.

Is this prove that water baptism save
It mean every body who went to water baptism produce the fruit?

Baptize/immerse in Jesus yes it will save us and produce fruit.

 

[Nick1939]

Mark 16:16 is not in the earliest manuscripts and is generally accepted to be an addition by a scribe. the actual long ending of Mark 16 is lost what you have past verse 9 is unreliable and not wholly supported by the rest of scripture.

If I were to base doctrine on Mark 16:16 I would consider on the parts that agree with the rest of scripture. If you do a Strongs number look up on the verse you will see that the English word baptize comes from the greek word Baptizo which indicates Holy Spirit baptism not water. Bapto is water Baptizo is Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Notuptome,, Although some mss, does not have Mark 16:16 yet is true what Jesus told his disciples,and agree with the rest of the scriptures .

That is why I am asking you this question;

In acts 10:44-48 in verse 47 what WATER peter referring to; since they were already baptized with the holy spirit ;

v 47.Can anyone FORBID WATER that these should not be baptized who have received the holy spirit just as we have?

By the way you did NOT answered if Jesus baptism is from heaven or from NAN?... God bless...

 

[Jabberjaw]

Mark 16:16 is not in the earliest manuscripts and is generally accepted to be an addition by a scribe. the actual long ending of Mark 16 is lost what you have past verse 9 is unreliable and not wholly supported by the rest of scripture.

It is in the majority text, it is in all of the manuscripts found all over the ancient Greek world, your Codex Vaticanus (B) and Codex Sinaiticus (Aleph) are packed full of errors, there are over 8,000 differences in the (B) and 9,000 in the (Aleph), and the Aleph was found in a garbage can in a Montessori by Constantine von Tischendorf in the mid 1800's

Not only do the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus manuscripts disagree with the Majority of manuscripts, but they do not agree with each other! The 8000 changes in Vaticanus and the 9000 changes in Sinaiticus are not the same changes. When their changes are added together, they alter the Majority Text in 13,000 places. This is two changes for every verse. Together they omit 4000 words, add 2000, transpose 3500, and modify 2000.

Actually if it was a scribe, it was one of these text's that altered Mark 16:26 by removal.

If I were to base doctrine on Mark 16:16 I would consider on the parts that agree with the rest of scripture. If you do a Strongs number look up on the verse you will see that the English word baptize comes from the greek word Baptizo which indicates Holy Spirit baptism not water. Bapto is water Baptizo is Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again, you should look these things up before listening to another man or website :

907 baptizo bap-tid'-zo from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash. see GREEK for 911

911 bapto bap'-to a primary verb; to whelm, i.e. cover wholly with a fluid; in the New Testament only in a qualified or special sense, i.e. (literally) to moisten (a part of one's person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye):--dip.

I don't see no Holy Spirit baptism there, in fact Strong's points in favor of the water baptism.

 

[Alligator]

The verse in Acts 2:38 uses baptize not the water baptism word bapto. Both are translated in to the English baptize but the are quite different in the original greek. A simple Strongs Concordance could solve this translational error for you. There are many available on line or you could find one in a book store.

I see you like to snipe but I have not seen much content from you. If you have something to contribute here is the place to do it. I am patient so I'll just keep watch.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I don't like to snipe , I don't even like to argue, so why am I on here, LOL.
Actually, i don't attack anyone unless they do first, and even then I don't enjoy it. I'm surprised you haven't seen more of my posts, I've been all over the place for the last few months.

 

[Apostol2013]

It is as written the water baptism is necesary as a tenet of the faith and as a commandment of Jesus now if you wish to refuse water baptism or even the gift of the Holy Ghost then it is like unto denying christ and Hisrenovating power to blot out the sins through His spirit and word combined , if we believe that Christ is then we are baptized and receive the spirit gift and obedience to His word by taking on the new man in Christ not acording to the flesh but to the spirit . So be mindful and forbid not water that you show faith if we reject the commandments of faith then there is no more to say but let there be obedience and be not children of disobsdience for if the angels were rejected then we are not exempt let us show that we are children of God by our obedience inwardly and outwardly proffesing a full gospel and not a bareboned or partial gospel as the unbelieving are acustomed to ..

 

[Jackson123]

It is as written the water baptism is necesary as a tenet of the faith and as a commandment of Jesus now if you wish to refuse water baptism or even the gift of the Holy Ghost then it is like unto denying christ and Hisrenovating power to blot out the sins through His spirit and word combined , if we believe that Christ is then we are baptized and receive the spirit gift and obedience to His word by taking on the new man in Christ not acording to the flesh but to the spirit . So be mindful and forbid not water that you show faith if we reject the commandments of faith then there is no more to say but let there be obedience and be not children of disobsdience for if the angels were rejected then we are not exempt let us show that we are children of God by our obedience inwardly and outwardly proffesing a full gospel and not a bareboned or partial gospel as the unbelieving are acustomed to ..

The topic is: Does water baptism save us.

So my response is:

I (A).Jesus said if branch abide to the vine, (B). it must bear fruit.

If a person abide to Jesus, he is save.

So (A) = save.

let put save to replace A.

The new sentence will be as bellow:

Save person must bear fruit.

The fact is a lot of people that already go to water baptism ritual, work as drug dealer, rob the bank and other that not show the fruit of repentant.

Conclusion: water baptism not save us.

One may say believe in Jesus,and doing water baptism but if he not bear the fruit he is liar. Fruit not save us but fruit is product of salvation. Because we are baptized/immerse in the name of Father Son and Holy spirit, we bear the Fruit. Holy spirit which dwell in us and produce fruit.