Salvation Not Possible Without Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
31
0
Truth or error is the dare
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...151613020003030.1073741839.89811673029&type=1


  • Howard Schultz If viewed as rules then yes, for rebellion comes from the commanding of others and self too
22 hours ago · Like · 1

Suzanne Reynolds Again...............all part of the game and the way you choose to play it....don't take it too seriously anymore.....just books, quotes, ideas and ONENESS
12 hours ago · Unlike · 1

Howard Schultz As mankind thinks, so mankind performs, emotions predictably react to thoughts, no matter whether the thoughts are right or wrong, so in essence emotions of anger, not well, feeling sorry want control of the person(s) to do the leading over reality, and by this emotion running the train, (being in reality the caboose) The train jumps track. so seeing this as being Human is smart, yet do we not still need the emotion to be the result not the lead

Just a little something to think about::


Galatians 6:8
Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life

AKJV Translation is:
Galatians 6:8
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Note: the different translations: one states it as as long as you do not sow (think) to please their flesh, will not reap destruction!
The other reads, whoever even thinks of their flesh will reap destruction, whether they want to or not

So how are we doing in trying not to do something we think about often that we do not want to do? Especially behind closed doors, and every time end up doing what we do not want to do, and stay guilty, and ask for more forgiveness, feel forgiven and stand right back up to not do it again and still do it again?

Something has got to be not right, yes? Did God or does God not want us to not do what we know not to do? A big yes or no, will turn around the outcome here, maybe, if you are worn out, in the energy (trying to stop this ongoing problem) maybe, ready?

Are you sure? Okay
God does not want you to stop sinning, why?
Because you can't, you are in the Flesh Nature alive to be selfish and if death knocks on your door you will choose to live and not die, right? Kill or be killed, right? Is this not what we are taught here on earth?
Why does God not want me to quit as an example committing Adultery in my own mind thoughts? Or getting anger in my way and yell at my significant other, behind closed doors?

("Because we can't"), How; long have you personally tried, or have you ever tried, being convicted by others, and or by reading the word?

.Roman Chapter 6 deals with that

Do we not see the truth that we are born after the similitude of Adam after he fell and knew he was Naked and had to cover up? And went and hid, not wanting to be exposed?

Read 1 Peter 1:22-24

I admit, I have had bad thoughts and lashed out in anger in the past, and "I" could do it again and again and agian, and have in the past. Each time after sought forgiveness and stated "I" will never do it again, anyone else in agreement and are doing this and have and could again, even if have stopped it for now?
And what do we do? Every time I wish to do good I find me doing it for a short while, maybe a week, maybe two or just a day, either way, "I" a war going on in me, do you see the same in you? And whenever you do good, do you get a thought that says hey look at you, you have not gotten angry for the last week or two?
What pretty much happens from that thought as soon as you say why yes, "I" have?
Do you see pride, boasting, prejudice, clouding you as if you are better than others? As if God who loves us all the same, is saying look at you as he said this is my Son, in whom "I"(God) am well pleased?
You decide is that what God wants from us, to be perfect? And you as "I" just replied why yes perfect is what God wants from us?
So the question then is how can I, you, or anyone else be perfect, since, we now see we can't and are stuck in the trying to be and just can't quite do it. I mean I know we are taught to be and can't, can we?



What does scripture say, by Christ we are, what did Christ do fro us in Father's view?
Colossians 1:22
in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
The next verse makes it clear
[SUP]23[/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Is the above Scripture truth or error, I dare you to make you Holy as Christ is? When you see you can't, maybe, you, I and all that see this might give up, you think and agree with Father that through Son we are made Holy to Father point of view, and if we do this, we are then presented to Father in us seeing this now are we not?
How will we respond to this after trying for so many years to be made Holy, through trying to be Holy, and finally seeing the only way to be is by accepting God. For it is done for us through Son Christ?


So I can relax now, right and rest now right and trust Father that it is done, responding with thanksgiving and praise right?

What happens the moment you have doubt in this accomplished done work of Christ for you?
That has made you Holy by his death, are you able to see the new life in trying to do what is already done for you? No, why
Because again we are back to works of self, masquerading as if God is behind it, when it quite possibly is not, but the pats on the back from others is convinced that is not true, it is from God, I know because my Church says so, if I do good God will reward me.


Forget what your church say listen to what Christ say
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

And Christ said do not do your good works as to be seen by men, truly that is the only reward they will get, and do not be like the Heathen, praying prayers over and over again, or disfigure yourself to gain attention, truly these that do such have gotten their reward
Rather go in private and pray, and Father who knows all secrets will openly reward us, for Father knows all our needs before we even ask
So the? Remains, do you believe Father through Son that by Son you are Holy, before Father, whether you sin or not?
If you do sin, are you still forgiven through Son or not?

You cannot sin and go before God
1 John 2:1-3


King James Version (KJV)

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.



You decide, if you want the new life where you walk in dependence on self efforts, thanks to Father, in deception and keep on sinning, taking Father's grace through Son for granted, as we all have been doing; being taught wrong, to ask for more forgiveness after we are forgiven by Christ when we have by lip service said we believe, do we?
Is there any more forgiveness to be executed to us from Father through Son, since his Son is done and already went to death for us?
I think great you have the Zeal, the want, the desire to do right by Father through Son and are busy doing your best to be like him and can't can you? Me either
So what do we do? Ever thought to give up, God does not want me to stop sinning, because when I try, I find I can't and am perplexed when I am of the thought that God wants me to stop sinning, and I do not.
Well so then if we see this, that we can't, why are we still trying, going from guilt to try again and if succeed at it, get boastful and proud in ourselves thinking Father is pleased with us if we do and not if we don't. When quite possibly Father is not pleased either way?


There is still hope for you
James 5:19-20


King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.



Can you now see it is all God and none of anyone else, all glory goes to Father through Son, and see they are one yet two?
Prayers to us all, to see truth that sets us free from stress and worry, while in the midst of troubles here on earth. to give us Faith that has no doubt in Father through Son. And by this Faith it is done, from Father's sight we are now Holy thanks to Son, no second guessing, truth is truth, so now go walk in it, praying Father reveals this to you, and me each day as I have agreed to reckon me dead to my Adam nature I was born with, being transferred to Christ the Second Adam that did it right, and did not take a bite from the tree of death as Adam did. Therefore you all we have new life right here right now in the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth. To be alive in Spirit of Father is wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Praying you see to stop works and believe Father, and then be led by Father to do or not do works of Father, not mankind’s, that appear right, and deceive us.
Love you all and hope for this:

Philippians 2:12-13


King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Ephesians 3:16-18


Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

When we see what I wrote the Love of God for you first, then you will see and love as God does. It is not an effort it is what it is, it is a response, where ones burden and yoke is light and easy as Christ said it is. So take it on and believe no matter what others say or do. Father will do with them, and either they will believe or they will not
Remember this song anyone
“CARRY ON MY WAYWARD SON, THERE WILL BE PEACE WHEN YOU ARE DONE"
So are we going to carry on and just love all, no matter what and do this by trusting God to teach us not mankind as mankind has taken over as oracles have they not?
Love forever in Spirit and truth to all
Homwardbound, for Christ came to set us free and we shall b e free indeed, shall we not?
May God richly bless you in all understanding
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
So Abraham was the "center of attention" when he obeyed God's will by going out and offering Isaac?
Twist twist twist, alright
Yes from Father viewpoint Abraham who chose not to be the center of attention was Father's center of attention, because Abraham believed Father, thus heard what Father said and did what Father said through trusting (believing Father), which is Faith.
And even on the way Abraham's Son Issac, asked where is the sacrifice, and Abraham stated Father will provide, and thought even if he did go all the way and literally kill his Son, He said God can raise him, So yes Abraham believed beyond Human reasoning. and Father saw this and stopped him right before the knife was to strike Son. and there was a lamb caught in the reeds and was used for the Sacrifice. Blood is always the payment to God in Mercy from God.

Now what Father stopped Abraham in doing, God di himself later with his own Son and he is risen just as Abraham said God can do. God did and wants to give you this as well if you will believe beyond any shadow of doubt
New life in Spirit and truth is through first Christ's death to the flesh, which if you agree with God you will see this as your death to your selfish works, that masquerade as God's works, that many are deceived by
God just loves you and is waiting for you to respond
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

Works are not the issue before or after. No one is saved by works, just look at the First Testament where no one's sin was ever purged in and for conscience sake, all the way even in the New Testament before the cross Law was in place until the cross, death, burial, resurrection, ascension and delivery of the Holy Spirit of truth to speak through those dead disciples dead to flesh and alive to the Spirit of God by Faith

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
2 Corinthians 10:15 not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men’s labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
I have posted sufficient verses/proof from the bible that without "doing" one cannot be saved. People with their man-made theologies reject what the the bible says about "doing"...nothing new under the sun.
So I have to do to be saved, God is not Faithful, and anyone can snatch me out of his hand, and anyone's weapons formed against will prosper unless I do is this what you are saying?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
So if a persons faith is not developed within himself upon hearing the world of God, Rom 10:17, then how does man obtain faith?
You still do not see the Mercy do you, It is all God and none of mankind

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

You seem to have a self-righteous attitude, do you?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
So you also deny Acts 10:35.
I deny self-works, one's works program to be saved and or stay saved. Any works that are done are by my Father in Heaven through Son's finished work for me to make me righteous as one with Father in Spirit and truth
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
So Abraham DID have to something for that promise God made to him in Gen 15:6 to come true, he could not have just faith only.
His works were the result of belief, him trusting God, knowing God's voice and walked by Faith even as Christ did all by Faith, and Father did all the works through him true or not?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
So you agree that one can come to Christ only if the Holy Spirit "empowers" him to do so? If so, then whose fault is for those that do not come to Christ if man has 0% input and the Holy Spirit has 100% input as to who does or does not come to Christ?
For at Judgment man will not have any excuse to where he goes for all will know consciously and have made their choice consciously and will know the consequences of their choice made
To Believe or not believe, that is what is left, and at Judgement, I am sure there will be complainers as to where they are going as if they did not know.
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
[h=3]Hebrews 10:17[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

[h=3]Hebrews 10:18[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
But some are implying you can only accept the gift if the Holy Spirit first "empowers" you to do so. Do you agree with that?
Yes, for Chirst is the way, the truth and the new life that brings us the connection, read John 16, and 17
Why did the Apostles have to wait, if they did not need God? Why did Paul,lay hands on those that had only received water Baptism, John's Baptism?
Are you saying we do not get this empowerment today and we are on our own to be righteous before God?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
So you say "yep" So those those that do not work righteousness is a failure on God's part for failing to 'empower" them to work righteousness.

And this is the bottom line problem with Calvinism is that it puts fault and blame upon God when God has none.
God is Faithful and we are as humankind are not. Why are you presenting God as a failure?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
What do people learn from a man-made theology that does nothing but put fault and blame upon God?
Who here is putting fault and blame on God? it seems to me you are in a very tricky way
Praying for us all
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
What do people learn from a man-made theology that does nothing but put fault and blame upon God?
Works program that you are promoting tricky enough to get one perplexed at doing, and see they can't and then the thought you can't and many have walked away when hearing this thought that came from Spiritual wickedness. Where as I stayed, when that day came with that thought, I can't do it, and that thought came it is not worth it give up and go do your own thing.
I rebuke these conniving thoughts and stand in Faith, like the mighty Oak tree that once was a small nut that stood it's ground
Still love you and see clearly, thanks fro the testing of Faith
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
Jn 6:45 shows that drawing is done when one is "taught", "hears" and "learns" then he of his OWN FREE WILL comes to Christ.

Coming or not coming to Christ is not a choice God/Holy Spirit makes for men.
Yeah, and as many have the wrong motive the day will come when one hears "I never knew you" you who work iniquity for your own gain.
Now I know not who is who, but I am settled in trusting God through Son it is done and I am elated as King David was when he saw afar off and said:
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

And today. I and all who see hear in Spirit and truth are looking back with this as entered today not entering,
But you as of yet are not seeing your works as filthy rags are you?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
Jn 6:45 shows that drawing is done when one is "taught", "hears" and "learns" then he of his OWN FREE WILL comes to Christ.

Coming or not coming to Christ is not a choice God/Holy Spirit makes for men.
That is all that is left after the cross is either to believe God completely or not
Do you believe you are made Holy without any works before God by Son's death?
 
Feb 21, 2014
5,672
18
0
Yeah, and as many have the wrong motive the day will come when one hears "I never knew you" you who work iniquity for your own gain.
Now I know not who is who, but I am settled in trusting God through Son it is done and I am elated as King David was when he saw afar off and said:
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

And today. I and all who see hear in Spirit and truth are looking back with this as entered today not entering,
But you as of yet are not seeing your works as filthy rags are you?
Yes, the Lord sees our motives and searches the hearts.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
We are so gullible, the works that we do are the fruit of the Spirit as our faith is placed in the work of Christ. We would not do what we do unless our faith was placed in the cross. Before we came to the cross we rolled in sin and enjoyed sin and preached our sin. But when we knelt at the cross we abhorred our sin, hated sin and wanted nothing to do with sin. Why what changed. This was an immediate effect days before you got baptized am I wrong or right.
yes Water Baptism is a good conscious towards God for what Christ did as peter came to see and wrote
Yet this world has taken on the gloss of Christ and made a mockery of Chirst in still trying to do good works, when mankind can't in perfection as Christ did, the way the truth and the new life in Spirit and truth and no one gets to the Father but through him
Water Baptism is used more for joining a Church than for anything else. When John's Baptism was and is over after he announced the Messiah has arrived and they still refused to believe. Man's self works still in the way to this very day
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
The problem with your view is that all men were saved by Grace. But not all men were granted eternal life. God created Adam with a free will and with a rational soul. It was God's purpose that man would work with God in this creation, freely, through love and obedience. Adam was not given immortality, but needed to attain immortality. That purpose has never changed and every man will give an account of that free choice.
If they had eaten from the tree of life (Jesus Christ) first, then this mess would not have taken on, for they would have known the truth and not have eaten from the tree of death. Yet it is what it is. Adam made the free choice and ate from sand brought death to all

Father sent Son in due time and reversed this, yet we all still die in the flesh, and will get new bodies in due time, yet for now we are by Christ and the cross in the resurrected Christ made alive with Christ in Spirit and truth.
Reckoning, believing we are by Christ's in flesh we are the same, dead to flesh nature, and alive in Spirit, where today is the only way Father is worshiped, in Spirit and truth
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
You are right. God is working His purpose in each person who loves him. King David is the example for our plight. We sin, we fail we repent and sometimes it takes years to undo the damage our sin creates (as was the case with David) but it doesn't mean we are not seeking God heart and that we are not going to be with Jesus when we die.
Yep, bottom line either you believe or you don't whether one does this or that, when the rubber hits the road, it will be on the basis of whether one believed or not. All self works will go through the fire and burn up, then the Souls goes through
1 Cor 3
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
What do you say about... one being born again is a spirit can not sin does not sin can live how ever they want sin as much as they want can remain a child of God eternally saved....
When walking in God's Spirit only there is no sin
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Ephesians 2:3 among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
May God richly bless you in all understanding
All of us, he came to save us, to give us new life in the Spirit of Father and thus walk as he walked in dependence on Father, to love all, once we see he loved us first we do only as deep as we see we are loved do we as people not?
[h=3]Ephesians 3:16-18[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

1 John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.