I see you’ve begun your presentation with a straw man. I never claimed the ECF’s were inspired.
There are in fact history. You presented the opinions of someone living almost 2000 years after the fact. I presented historical evidence of those who were there.
There’s nothing in the text that requires a metaphorical interpretation. Therefore to do so imo is eisegesis. If you look at Ephesians 5:26 you’ll see that your interpretation doesn’t fit the text. The “word” in that passage is the Greek word “rhema” is means a spoken word or command. It’s not talking about the “word of God”, it’s talking about a command that was given. What command was given that pertains to the “Bath of water”?
[SUP]19[/SUP] "Go therefore[SUP]1 [/SUP]and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Mat 28:19 NKJ)
It was Paul who wrote the letter to Titus and we can see from Paul's letter to the Philippians that he considered "works of righteousness" as keeping the law.
This is another straw man. We are looking at what Paul means by the term works of righteousness. I’ve pointed out the Acts 15 and Gal 1-3 deal with this issue. However, Paul addresses it in Titus also.
[SUP]7[/SUP] For a bishop[SUP]1 [/SUP]must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,
[SUP]8[/SUP] but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled,
[SUP]9[/SUP] holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
[SUP]11[/SUP] whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.
[SUP]12[/SUP] One of them, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons."
[SUP]13[/SUP] This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, [SUP]14[/SUP] not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. (Tit 1:7-14 NKJ)
Note Paul’s words they subvert whole households. Look at Luke’s statement in Acts 15.
[SUP]NKJ [/SUP]Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." (Act 15:1 NKJ)
[SUP]5[/SUP] But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Act 15:5 NKJ)
[SUP]8[/SUP] but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled,
[SUP]9[/SUP] holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
[SUP]11[/SUP] whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.
[SUP]12[/SUP] One of them, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons."
[SUP]13[/SUP] This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, [SUP]14[/SUP] not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. (Tit 1:7-14 NKJ)
Note Paul’s words they subvert whole households. Look at Luke’s statement in Acts 15.
[SUP]NKJ [/SUP]Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." (Act 15:1 NKJ)
[SUP]5[/SUP] But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Act 15:5 NKJ)
James acknowledges that these people were causing problems among the Gentiles
[SUP]23[/SUP] They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law[SUP]1 [/SUP]"-- to whom we gave no such commandment--
[SUP]25[/SUP] it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
(Act 15:23-25 NKJ)
This is the issue that Paul is addressing when speaking of works that don’t save.
[SUP]23[/SUP] They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law[SUP]1 [/SUP]"-- to whom we gave no such commandment--
[SUP]25[/SUP] it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
(Act 15:23-25 NKJ)
This is the issue that Paul is addressing when speaking of works that don’t save.
Water baptism is part of faith in Christ.
No one is arguing that anyone is saved by works. The works argument is a false dichotomy.
The law was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles. However, the Jews believed that the inheritance came through the Law and some suggested that the Gentiles would need to keep the Law in order to partake of the inheritance. Paul argues against this idea. When he says it’s by faith and not by works he is arguing that it isn’t necessary for the Gentiles to keep the Law.
I’m not sure what your point is here.
I find it interesting that you dismiss the ECF’s on baptismal regeneration yet post them in an attempt to prove faith alone.
Once again the argument is a straw man, no one is claiming that anyone is saved by works. And none of the passages you posted said that Baptism isn’t required. It’s the same argument from silence, pick a few verses of Scripture that speak of salvation but don’t mention baptism and say see, nothing about baptism so that means baptism isn’t necessary only this time it’s the ECF’s The bottom line that it’s an argument from silence which is a logical fallacy.
The Scriptures are the ultimate authority however, many don’t understand them because they try to impose a 21 century American mindset on a 1 century eastern book. Then there are who don’t use proper methods of reasoning and wind up in error.
We can go to the Scriptures.
[SUP]5[/SUP] So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You[SUP]1[/SUP]."
[SUP]6[/SUP] As He also says in another place: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek[SUP]1[/SUP]";
[SUP]7[/SUP] who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,
[SUP]8[/SUP] though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
[SUP]10[/SUP] called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"
(Heb 5:5-10 NKJ)
[SUP]6[/SUP] As He also says in another place: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek[SUP]1[/SUP]";
[SUP]7[/SUP] who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,
[SUP]8[/SUP] though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
[SUP]10[/SUP] called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"
(Heb 5:5-10 NKJ)
Here the Scriptures refute the faith alone doctrine as it’s understood in modern American.
Obedience requires action, action is something one does thus it is work.