Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[feedm3]

I think this thread will never end it's been on and on forever

 

[VCO]

[SUP]

How one gets saved?

James 1
21 [/SUP]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:1-3King James Version (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Ephesians 2:4-5

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ephesians 2:7-9

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

Romans 4:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.

John 3:36 (NIV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

1 John 5:20 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

 

[AllForHIm]

No No thats not what i am saying as in what i believe. Im saying it for the sake of argument, as EG believes one who lives in sin was never saved to begin with.

For the sake of argument I say, okay he was never saved, but why? Becuase he is living in sin. Therfore obedience is essential to salvation. And he believes the same thing he just doesn't realize it.

He says works have nothing to do with salvation, yet if we do not have them we were never saved. Can you see the paradox there?

Good luck, hope you enjoy the site. Good to have you

I can see where you are coming from. Yet not sure if I agree. I also dont agree if one lives in sin, he was never saved. How could he have never been saved?

 

[11Eleven-Bravo]

I can see where you are coming from. Yet not sure if I agree. I also dont agree if one lives in sin, he was never saved. How could he have never been saved?

Yeah, that was my thought. We're all born into a sinful world but if you recognize and acknowledge Christ as the Messiah, our Lord and Savior, and place your faith in him then all sins past, present, and future will be forgiven, so long as you maintain a constant effort to be repentant of those sins.

Also, bearing true faith should bring about good works and deeds. Believing in Christ, and living through Him means that you are also putting into practice his teachings in your day to day activities. At least, that's my take on it.

 

[feedm3]

I can see where you are coming from. Yet not sure if I agree. I also dont agree if one lives in sin, he was never saved. How could he have never been saved?

Well I will be happy to elaborate and any statement I have made if you would like, let me know.

I understand what you believe, I dont agree, but im glad you see the flaw in the other guys belief about living in sin and never being saved. It is inconsistent and a contradiction. you'll have to ask him to explain that one, he throws it out there then refuses to elaborate with me.

Cant have your cake and eat it too

 

[feedm3]

Yeah, that was my thought. We're all born into a sinful world but if you recognize and acknowledge Christ as the Messiah, our Lord and Savior, and place your faith in him then all sins past, present, and future will be forgiven, so long as you maintain a constant effort to be repentant of those sins.

Also, bearing true faith should bring about good works and deeds. Believing in Christ, and living through Him means that you are also putting into practice his teachings in your day to day activities. At least, that's my take on it.

But to be repentant means to be turning away from them. So we cannot just choose to live in sin, and say we are repenent at the same time.

What if one confesses Christ, is baptized into him, etc, yet chooses to live a homosexual lifestyle? This is not repentance, otherwise he would stop this sin.

Therfore, this person is in need of repentance (turning away from this sin) and his/her soul is in danger because of this sin Heb 10:26 ..His sacrifice does not cover "willful sin" which means sin that is not repented of. Present or future.

But the grace of GOd has been given, and allows us to repent, even though we deserve death. IF we choose not to receive this gift, it is our own fault when our sins remain.

Rom 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?<---no that is not what grace is. It is not a ticket for us to sin willfully
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein<---answer: we cant, if we live in sin, then we are not dead to sin, therfore not buried with Christ
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ<----obedience were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life<---repentance

 

[11Eleven-Bravo]

But to be repentant means to be turning away from them. So we cannot just choose to live in sin, and say we are repenent at the same time.

Never did I mention in my post that we shouldn't turn away from our sins. I was primarily trying to point out that good deeds will come by our faith. The rest was just extra.

 

[feedm3]

Never did I mention in my post that we shouldn't turn away from our sins. I was primarily trying to point out that good deeds will come by our faith. The rest was just extra.

No you didnt. I didnt mean to make it sound like something you didnt say. Yet I infered you that what you meant by this statment:

We're all born into a sinful world but if you recognize and acknowledge Christ as the Messiah, our Lord and Savior, and place your faith in him then all sins past, present, and future will be forgiven

Bold added by me: when you said put our faith in Christ and all sins including future would be forgiven, it seemed like you were leaving out repentance. Or making a common mistake that some make in thinking repentance is just regret or remorse.

So I was just wanting to make the point we are forgiven when we repent. As for the "good works". I think the term needs to be defined better when we speak of them.

Good works as in Good deeds (benevolence, etc) come from a strong faith, and desire to please God.

Yet obedience, as in obeying his commands, is not a good work, but our "duty" as the Lord said in Luke 17:10. It is the means we use to show our love for Him - Jn 14:15.

im not implying you meant that either, im just saying it for whoever is reading. Take care.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Just completely ignore the verses that state not to argue and keep fighting? -sigh-

 

[feedm3]

WERE NOT FIGHTING!!!!! GOT IT ???!!!!

Just kidding ha ha

 

[TaylorTG]

I think I found a clue as to the question in the op. Would Noah and his family have been saved if they hadn't been obedient and "worked" at building the ark?

Finally! You get it!!!

*drops down and kisses Sirk's feet*


THAT'S RIGHT! We have to save ourselves by following God's commands! AKA by being obedient to him!
God saves those who wish to save themselves! If we truly want eternal life, we obey God!

May your descendants be living lights of the world! May you eat fruits, all the days of your life!

I think this thread will never end it's been on and on forever

Just completely ignore the verses that state not to argue and keep fighting? -sigh-

The descendants of all of the regulars on these debate threads will continue to carry out the tradition.



The book of the end times chapter 2:1--18

[HR][/HR]FAITH ONLY DEBATERS
[HR][/HR]And so Marria gave birth to VCO, son of UCO. VCO did what is pleasing in the eyes of the Lord, and so the Lord granted him permanent rest from his keyboard battles via mortal illness.



And so Sierra, daughter of Sinna, gave birth to Sirk, son of Slack. Sirk pleased the Lord, yet not as his brother in keyboard VCO did. He died of a heart attack after arguing for so long.

After his death, Sirk's 3 sons, Knuckledragger 1, Knuckledragger 2, and Knuckledragger 3 carried out their father's work. After they and their families were laid to rest (via earthquake) the land enjoyed peace.


Thus, Carrie, daughter of Nick, gave birth to DControversial, son of shouting. The lord was pleased with DControversial's work,so he used DControversial as an instrument to destroy 3 key terrorist leaders in the middle east.

Therefore, as the U.S.A's military stormed the terrorist village, the helicopter which DControversial rode in was RPG'ed.

The one who fired the RPG fired his last rocket, and so, other U.S.A helicopters easily landed and overwhelmed the terrorists; 23 were brought to justice on that day.





[HR][/HR]FAITH AND WORKS DEBATERS
[HR][/HR]And so Larena, daughter of Poprai, gave birth to Seabass, son of Basson. Seabass did what is pleasing in the eyes of the Lord. He tore down the doctrines which his oppressor DControversial set up, and challenged the "faith only" mindset via his debating.

Thus, the Lord decided that Seabass should get sent to Heaven early for his work, and so Seabass was eaten by a dozen snarks while resting. A dozen snarks sent by the Lord, to make sure Seabass wouldn't escape.



Some time later, Karam conceived Cassian, son of Parkson. Cassian did what is pleasing in the sight of the Lord, yet not as Seabass had done, since Seabass opened the debating threads. He lived a long and ripe life, yet was unhappy because of his debating. Thus, the Lord sent a certain Alligator to eat him while he was fishing by a pond.

Thus, Alligator, son of Allison and Kingsley, carried out the command by the Lord, and ate Cassian. Afterward, the Lord struck down Alligator and fed him to the oceanic witches.




[HR][/HR]And so ends the lives of the 6 stooges, yet the debates were far from over, since their descendants carried out their noble works.

 

[feedm3]

Can you imagine Noah using the faith only reasoning?

"Build the an Ark out of gopher wood".

"NO Lord, if I build the ark, then i would be working for my salvation, you must build it and then put me in it. Even just walking to it would be me relying on my own ability to save myself".

Not trying to be disrespectful, but as foolish as that sounds here, its the same logic im hearing.

Gen 6:22 "and Noah did all that God commanded, so did he"

 

[newbirth]

Galatians 5:19-20

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,




Enough of the variance and strife. People won't always agree with you, regardless of the evidence you show. This thread has been going on for way too long. Enough is enough, just let it go.

So true brother but the idea is to agree with God's word, false teachings spread like wildfire to those with itching ears. It is the duty of those who know the truth to prove it with sound doctrine. Let God arise and the enemies be scattered.

2 Tim2
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[homwardbound]

I agree, the Father is not the one who murdered Christ, he as Jesus did, allowed it to happen. His foreknowledge knew what would happen, and therefore he used it to usher in the NT salvation, through His blood that he allowed to be shed for our sins.

Yes and can you see it the devil excited and those religious leaders over the death
And then on the resurrection and confronted the devil as alive, he took captivity captive, took the keys from Satan to heaven and hell. Preached to all those in prison and set the captives free all the way back to Adam. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! is not even the word to describ the awesomeness of out Lord and Savior to all that beleive Jesus being the way the truth and the new life found in the resurrected Christ after seeing his death as to be our death to our selfish behaviors we all have
1 Corinthians 2:8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[homwardbound]

If it was predetermined, a done deal why would he give us the word (or ministry)of reconciliation. That's the free ride bro but you gotta get on the bus. Not only that you have to live worthy of being on that bus. Not only that but you have to stay on the bus to receive the free gift at the end of the journey..

By Faith is how one gets on and by remaining in this Faith one stays on:

[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies and hated him and were separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends. [SUP]22 [/SUP]He has done this through the death on the cross of his own human body, and now as a result Christ has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are standing there before him with nothing left against you—nothing left that he could even chide you for; [SUP]23 [/SUP]the only condition is that you fully believe the Truth, standing in it steadfast and firm, strong in the Lord, convinced of the Good News that Jesus died for you, and never shifting from trusting him to save you. This is the wonderful news that came to each of you and is now spreading all over the world. And I, Paul, have the joy of telling it to others.

 

[SeaBass]

Finally! You get it!!!

*drops down and kisses Sirk's feet*


THAT'S RIGHT! We have to save ourselves by following God's commands! AKA by being obedient to him!
God saves those who wish to save themselves! If we truly want eternal life, we obey God!

May your descendants be living lights of the world! May you eat fruits, all the days of your life!





The descendants of all of the regulars on these debate threads will continue to carry out the tradition.



The book of the end times chapter 2:1--18

[HR][/HR]FAITH ONLY DEBATERS
[HR][/HR]And so Marria gave birth to VCO, son of UCO. VCO did what is pleasing in the eyes of the Lord, and so the Lord granted him permanent rest from his keyboard battles via mortal illness.



And so Sierra, daughter of Sinna, gave birth to Sirk, son of Slack. Sirk pleased the Lord, yet not as his brother in keyboard VCO did. He died of a heart attack after arguing for so long.

After his death, Sirk's 3 sons, Knuckledragger 1, Knuckledragger 2, and Knuckledragger 3 carried out their father's work. After they and their families were laid to rest (via earthquake) the land enjoyed peace.


Thus, Carrie, daughter of Nick, gave birth to DControversial, son of shouting. The lord was pleased with DControversial's work,so he used DControversial as an instrument to destroy 3 key terrorist leaders in the middle east.

Therefore, as the U.S.A's military stormed the terrorist village, the helicopter which DControversial rode in was RPG'ed.

The one who fired the RPG fired his last rocket, and so, other U.S.A helicopters easily landed and overwhelmed the terrorists; 23 were brought to justice on that day.





[HR][/HR]FAITH AND WORKS DEBATERS
[HR][/HR]And so Larena, daughter of Poprai, gave birth to Seabass, son of Basson. Seabass did what is pleasing in the eyes of the Lord. He tore down the doctrines which his oppressor DControversial set up, and challenged the "faith only" mindset via his debating.

Thus, the Lord decided that Seabass should get sent to Heaven early for his work, and so Seabass was eaten by a dozen snarks while resting. A dozen snarks sent by the Lord, to make sure Seabass wouldn't escape.



Some time later, Karam conceived Cassian, son of Parkson. Cassian did what is pleasing in the sight of the Lord, yet not as Seabass had done, since Seabass opened the debating threads. He lived a long and ripe life, yet was unhappy because of his debating. Thus, the Lord sent a certain Alligator to eat him while he was fishing by a pond.

Thus, Alligator, son of Allison and Kingsley, carried out the command by the Lord, and ate Cassian. Afterward, the Lord struck down Alligator and fed him to the oceanic witches.




[HR][/HR]And so ends the lives of the 6 stooges, yet the debates were far from over, since their descendants carried out their noble works.

Snarks????

 

[homwardbound]

Hello, I just wanted to chime in and say, it really does not matter how we word salvation by faith/works.

Basically it the same thing.

1. If the saved WILL do works because they are saved, then it is by works (obedience) salvation is qualified.

So if by works faith can be determined dead or alive, then works play an essential part in our salvation.

If your saying a believer with TRUE faith, will do works, because he is saved, then you are saying, if a believer does NOT have works, his faith is dead, and is not saved. therefore you're saying we MUST have works. Saying "will have works" doesn't change the fact we MUST have them in order to have true faith which is salvation.



Great passages. They were DEAD but repented (an obedient work that MUST be done) and now they are alive.

God's grace allowed this because He died for us when we did not deserve it, making it possible for us to obey this commands and be washed of sin.



Yes, and as you said, he WILL have good works, if not he does not have Eternal life, so his faith is qualified by obedience, therfore it is absoulutly essential to this believer's salvation.



Of course, it is Grace, not of works, no one was so great and pure God sent his son, no one can boast. It is purely undeserved grace, a gift, this does not imply that obedience has nothing to do with grace.

Disobedience cause our grace to be "in vain".:

2 Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain

Paul is telling this to the Corintian church, believers, Christians. Warning them not receive the grace of God in vain.

This would once again be disobedience. Heb 10:25-27, willful sin leads to the sacrifice Christ made of no effect upon the believer.

Gal 5 "..Christ has become of no effect ye have fallen from Grace"



What does it matter if we say, "I must obey to obtain salvation" or "I will obey because im saved"?

The outcome and necessity for obedience is the same in each statement. Either we obey and are saved, or we do not obey and were not saved, bottom line we must obey.

Saying it either way produces the same outcome.

Anyone who thinks obeience is not essential is fooling themselves. It's not putting trust in yourself to obey what God has told us. It's putting trust in God to know we must do what he told us.

Luke 17:10 10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do

After we have obeyed what is commanded, we say we are still unprofitable servants which only have done our duty.

That is the humility in obeience. It is prideful to think it is not a MUST to keep our "duty".





It is silly to say Jesus said "you will keep" and that does not mean we "must keep". It's the same meaning either way you say it. if he is telling me in order to love Him I will keep his commands, then I must keep his commands in order to love him.

If you cant see that, then try using implication.

If one will keep his commands if they love Him? the one who does NOT keep his commands does not love him.

Thereforeone MUST keep his commands. Seriously? This is simple logic that does not even need to be explained.



Yes "must keep" because a saved person "will keep". Otherwise not saved. So either way you put it, even you believe it's a must obviously if it shows saved or unsaved.


Because in the way you're saying it, you're not staying true to the word used here in this passage.

The word "keep"

from teros (a watch; perh. akin to G-2334); to guard (from loss or injury, prop. by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from G-5442, which is prop. to prevent escaping; and from G-2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), i.e. to note (a prophecy; fig. to fulfil a command); by impl. to detai




Also this word is in IMPERATIVE form. Which mean "you MUST keep" is the correct way of putting this.

Take a look for yourself:
ηρέω tēreō Tense: Aorist
Voice: Active
Mood: Imperative <--------------a "Must"

* The Aorist Active Imperative verb form occurs 375 times in the New Testament.

There is no arguing with Greek, we Must (imperative) keep his commands.

Take care,

No matter what though, it is God that decides, not us. Are we to work out our own salvation or others?

[h=3]Philippians 2:12-13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.



[h=3]Philippians 2:12-13[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Dearest friends, when I was there with you, you were always so careful to follow my instructions. And now that I am away you must be even more careful to do the good things that result from being saved, obeying God with deep reverence, shrinking back from all that might displease him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For God is at work within you, helping you want to obey him, and then helping you do what he wants.

 

[SeaBass]

You know SeaBass, I am beginning suspect that you make comments like that, just to throw fuel on the fire and keep the heated debate going. Are you addicted to intense heated debates?

Predetermined plan is a strange term for any Christian to be using.

GOD is ALL KNOWING.

GOD is thee I AM, Who is omnipresent in all time.

GOD is all powerful, yet merciful.

GOD is perfectly Just and yet freely gives out HIS GRACE.

So you can if you want figure it out from there.

Somehow I am beginning to think if I said the sky is blue on a cloudless day, you would argue that it is green.


HERE IS WHAT GOD HIMSELF SAYS, you can choose to believe it or not.

Isaiah 46:10-13 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are far from righteousness.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] I am bringing my righteousness near, it is not far away; and my salvation will not be delayed. I will grant salvation to Zion, my splendor to Israel.

Joshua 24:15 (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

James 4:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Revelation 3:20 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.

It's a legitimate question. There are Calvinists that say God forced the Jews against their will to crucify Christ. You did not give me a straight up or down answer. The problem is, if God predetermined the Jews against their will to crucify Christ, then God was the one who actually murdered Christ with His wicked hands and the Jews would have just been the 'weapon' God used to commit that sin.

 

[SeaBass]

In reply to all replies to you:
This is what I see; God loves and loved me so much along with you and all the world, that I when saw this, became undone, and saw my own personal depravity and need for a Savior, known as Jesus Christ, and have submitted all of me unto Father by Son
And now today am a responder to this love in sincerity to Father, and by this can't intentionally, willfully harm a fly ever
Whether this is viewed as a work or not, that is not the issue to me. Everyone has a view, whether right or wrong
Bottom line how are we all going to respond to God going to the cross for our sins and the whole world's
The OP is "Salvation not possible without works" And truthfully this judment is God's not mine or yours, or anyone's is it?
I beleive and learned and am still learning to give my whole, all self to God to mold me and correct me as God sees fit.

Is this true for you too, I think and hope so, in order to finally communicate in truth to each other, and not make Judgment of each other, listening

Again, total depravity is a man-made concept. Gen 4:7 man is just as able to accept God as he is to reject God.

 

[SeaBass]

You must use a WAY WIDER definition of what is a Christian than I do. If you do not come through the very narrow gate of receiving HIM a LORD, meaning a TOTAL submission to HIM as Master and LORD, then you are ONLY on the broad road which is full of those who fell for a counterfeit of Christianity.

Can one be TOTAL submissive by doing no works at all? No. Is there any unconditional guarantee that one who is submissive today will still be submissive time down the road? No.

You do understand that when you are born again it is the HOLY SPIRIT coming into you and bringing your human spirit to ETERNAL LIFE?

Ephesians 2:1-2 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And you were dead in your trespasses and sins
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, the spirit now working in the disobedient.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Saved by grace, but God's grace is not unconditional.

John 6:47 (ESV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

The verb belives is present tense denoting an ongoing sustained action. Those that quit believing no long have everlasting life.

At that same moment of Faith, the Holy Spirit IMMERSES us into the spiritual body of CHRIST. THAT is the Baptism that saves.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

So YES you MUST BE born again to enter Heaven. BUT HE SAYS AT THAT VERY MOMENT THAT WE HAVE THAT CONVERSION FROM UNBELIEF TO BELIEF: You are saved by grace!

That seed of Faith the size of a mustard seed will grow into a huge plant producing fruit;
if it really happened. It will produce LOVE FOR GOD, which WILL manifest itself in the form of willing obedience,
NOT OUT OF SENSE OF I "MUST DO", but because want to LOVE HIM and show our LOVE for HIM.

1 Cor 12;13 is water baptism, the same baptism of 1 Cor 1:14,16 where Paul water baptized some of the Corinthians himself.

Even Jesus said it:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me (have been saved), you will keep My commands.

And you have to change that to MUST KEEP, rather than humble yourself bowing to HIS finished work, and admitting He already saved me, SO I will LOVE HIM and will show my LOVE by my obedience, trusting the HOLY SPIRIT in you to give you the power to obey like that.

Why can't you say will keep?

Again, you try and have one saved BEFORE he keeps Christ's commandments..which is impossible.

Jesus equated loving Him with keeping His commandments. 2 Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. Meaning there is no such thing as loving Christ while not keeping His commandments. Therefore one does not love Christ UNTIL he obeys Christ's commandments.

Jn 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;
Can one abide in Christ's love BEFORE or WITHOUT keeping His commandments? No.

Jn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: