mailmandan,
Not at all. You COMPLETELY missed my point. You claim that I was never given the "whole" Gospel, which reminds me of the Mormon claim that they have the "fullness" of the Gospel, implying that evangelical Christians do not have the "whole" Gospel. So what is this "whole" Gospel that I am missing? What supplements are you adding to the death, burial and resurrection of Christ which then makes it the so called whole Gospel?
Evangelical Christians do not. All you have is a text and all sola scripturist categorically deny that it had meaning before the 16th century.
Futhermore, you were not in Corinth when Paul was teaching and preaching for three years. When he wrote both letters, do you really believe that they contain all that Paul taught for three years. In fact, this is why sola scripturist have all the attended problems with a text because Paul does not explain everything, just either infers, hints, or mentions without fully explaining it because he knows they would understand.
1 John 2:27 - But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning ALL THINGS, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. The Church is made up of the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) which is the body of believers and is not a particular building with a name stamped on it.
which is a protestant, sola scripturist concept. The common understanding is simply a philosopoical notion of some mythical body existing somewhere, but no one knows exactly. You have never been annointed either except by an assumed annointing in an assumed church that does not really exist in reality.
I can assure you that the Church in Jerusalem, Antioch, Corinth were realities not some mythical notion.
This is a ludicrous false accusation which shows me your true colors.
You do know what blaspheme means?
It absolutely addresses the statement that you made. Mormons are not sola scripturists. They add to God's Word.
yes, and so do you. They are just honest about it.
Satan believes "mental assent" that there is one God (James 2:19) and in the existence and historical facts about Christ, but he does not believe/entrust his spiritual well being to Christ; has faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. That's the HUGE difference. So you believe that ALL belief is the same "except for the lack of works" and cannot grasp a DEEPER which trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation?
I have salvation that Christ did for me as any and every other human being. The requirement that God made is that a person who desires a relationship with Him must believe that He is the Christ, the Savior of the world. This belief makes that person acceptable to God. Repentance is required to change one's outlook, purpose in life and to be actually joined with Christ, become a member of His Body, baptism is required. Those are the elementary requirements. Once in Christ the real work begins of one's attaining to eternal life. Man was created to work with God in this creation. Man was to become perfected as a human being, exemplifying Christ. That takes effort and many who enter fall by the wayside because they more prefer the pleasures of this world, or rather than denying themselves to become servants, they prefer to be first. Attaining eternal life is all about being perfected and if we do not continue and endure to the end, one cannot inherit the promise of that eternal life with Christ.
Yet God's Word is infallible. 2 Peter 1:20 - knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
and then why do sola scripturist assume they can interpret a text, even without the Holy Spirit.
The surest test of false teaching which has been used for 2000 years is that if it has not been believed from the beginning, by all, everywhere, it is a false teaching. This puts OSAS into the false category. It is a wholly new and unknown imposition upon scripture. It is man devised and can be traced historically to its very root, which is not scripture.
So if scripture alone is not your criterion for faith and practice, what else are you supplementing with scripture? Roman Catholics and Mormons have both added to God's Word. So what is the Gospel according to you?
It is according to the Holy Spirit as He once gave it and has preserved it. It is the full revelation of the Holy Spirit, what is known as Holy Tradition. It is what the scripture is derived from. The Apostles did not write letters. They taught orally and set the practices of the Church in motion. The first text did not come until 20 years after the Church was founded at Pentecost. It was not until the end of the first century that all what became the Canon was even written. You'd think the Apostles simply sat on their thumbs when in Corinth and then at some later date decided to write a letter.
It is quite presumptious of most protestants to think that everyone had a Bible, even could read. Copying was expensive and time consuming. They were taught the Tradition from generation to generation and the scriptures became part of the living Gospel and was incorporated into the Liturgy.
In the west under Rome it was even worse because after the fall of Rome in 470 the Dark Ages began and education was virtually non-existent, which was not true in the East. The Roman See became the center of all that existed in the west, culturally, the only educated persons, the secular rulers, the development of the Holy Roman Empire and the Church controlled virtually every aspect of life in the west. All the changes in theology had it start in this period, including the concept of the Papacy.
No they are not. Works salvation is no salvation at all and perverting the Gospel is certainly not the work of the Holy Spirit.
Just told you that you mischaracterize your opposition and scripturs meaning and then you just do it again. We are not speaking about works salvation. We are speaking about attaining eternal life through faith. Scripture clearly describes what that means.
The Gospel has always been the same within "Christ's Body" but has not always been the same with all men. There are many unbelievers in the world who teach a different gospel and have from the beginning. Your 2000 year sales pitch is a popular argument in the Roman Catholic church and they clearly teach a different gospel. hhmmm...
Individual men have never had control over scripture either. No man was ever permitted to impose his will upon the Gospel of Christ by the Holy Spirit working through Christ's Body. Well, maybe you aught to broaden your horizons and get out of the false western milieu including the RCC. Be a Berean, as I was, and chech the history of the Church from the very beginning and folow it through history as well as the theology of the Church. It will not lead you to the RCC, I can assure you.
It certainly does grant eternal life. Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith.. Romans 5:1 - Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 13:39 - All that believe are justified from ALL things.. John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
The context from vs 1 is speaking about the salvation Christ did for all men. vs 5 summarizes it. Saved by grace. NO faith as yet.
In vs 6 Paul makes a transition to the sub-group of all men, namely believers who will come from the general (all men) and they were also saved by grace, but also through faith. It does not say by faith, which is justification. Through faith is what a believer does once He has entered into Christ. It is then keeping that faith while working with the Holy Spirit to be perfected, to be conformed to the image or Likeness of Christ. This is not done unilaterally. It is solely done by you mutually working out your salvation with Christ. If you are faithful to the end, you shall inherit eternal life. Christ does not grant eternal life unilaterally just on the basis of a one time mental affirmation of faith.
YOur citation again has that time sequence as a condition. It is ONE WHO BELIEVES. It is always present tense, active and continuing. If your faith has no evidence, namely the works, it is a dead faith. Man turns away from Christ for many reasons as scripture so plainly and almost monotonously keeps exhorting.
Justification has everything to do with attaining eternal life. Water baptism is the first step following faith and conversion. We are Spirit baptized into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) not water baptized. You are confusing the picture with the reality. When does this happen? Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. Read John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 to find out what "water" Jesus was talking about in John 3:5.
that is your man made version of the text. It does not align with what the Apostles set up, explained, taught and the Church has ever since followed without change. This has been accurately explained by others as well in this thread many times already.
We are saved the moment that we BELIEVE (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16). No acts of obedience/works which follow believing help us to be any more saved through Christ than we already are. Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Justification by faith does not save anyone. Futhermore nothing saves you by simply entering into Christ. You take possession of it, but it is yours to lose because it depends on your faith. Nothing in scripture ever states that man's faith is guaranteed. Just the opposite. Scripture spends an inordinate amount of ink explaining to believers not to lose faith. Why? Because one cannot be saved without faith in Christ.
YOur citation of Rom 8:29 is not even about either salvation or eternal life directly. Paul is simply here showing that Christ has not forgotten them. He is writing to them during Nero's persecution reign in Rome. He was burning Christians at the stake. Those believers in Rome thought that God had forsaken them and didn't care, so Paul writes this great promise of God towards them. Showing that why would God leave them, forsake them when He called them,(they responded, since God calls all men) and that He predestined that He/ the Holy Spirit would be given so that He could work with them to make them holy, blameless and conformed to His Image. He is not concerned about those who fall away and many did during this time.
More ridiculous ramblings. So what movement are you mixed up in?
Even though I have stated it numerous times, the question also shows your ignorance of Church history. I am Orthodox. That movement that goes by the general name of Christianity.
Genuine Christians do not have problems with essential Christian doctrine.
I know. They all teach the same thing, the same thing as the early Church taught. There is ONLY ONE Gospel, not thousands all developed by men.
Amen! The question is - "are you a member of the right Church (body of Christ) and do you have the right Gospel?"
I have been proclaiming it. It is the Original unadulterated Gospel of Christ. Unchanged by any man for 2000 years. I know you cannot make that claim, since most of what you espouse will never be recognized by the early Church.
If straw man arguments and false accusations is the best you can do then don't waste anymore of my time. The only thing that you have demonstrated to me is that you DON'T BELIEVE the Gospel and have bought into a dangerous sales pitch.
the true marks of a genuine sola scripturist with his own infallible gospel. In the end this is the fallback position.
