The Sabbath.

[2Thewaters]

The Sabbath is Jesus.
He is our rest.
It is his day.
It is his gift to me.
He said
through all eternity I will meet with you each Sabbath so we can love each other.
On that day you get the holy spirit power to overcome any sin....
it is the only day with that promise.
I will stick with my bible,
you can have the catholic church.

 

[john832]

The Sabbath is Jesus.
He is our rest.
I wouldn't reject him, he is really really nice.

Got a scripture that says Jesus is the Sabbath? Here is my contribution...

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Christ is not the Sabbath, He is LORD of the Sabbath and Lord of ALL!

Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[john832]

Why do we worship on Sunday instead of Saturday?
by Matt Slick
In the Old Testament, God stated, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you," (Exodus 20:8-10, NASB). It was the custom of the Jews to come together on the Sabbath, which is Saturday, cease work, and worship God. Jesus went to the synagogue on Saturday to teach (Matt. 12:9, John 18:20) as did the apostle Paul (Acts 17:2; 18:4; ). So, if in the Old Testament we are commanded to keep the Sabbath and in the New Testament we see Jews, Jesus, and the apostles doing the same thing, then why do we worship on Sunday?
First of all, of the 10 commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, only 9 of them were reinstituted in the New Testament: (six in Matt. 19:18, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, honor parents, and worshiping God; Rom. 13:9, coveting. Worshiping God properly covers the first three commandments) The one that was not reaffirmed was the one about the Sabbath. Instead, Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8).
Upon the completion of Creation God rested... on the seventh day. But, since God is all powerful, He doesn’t get tired. He doesn’t need to take a break and rest. So, why did does it say that He rested? The reason is simple: Mark 2:27 says, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." In other words, God established the Sabbath as a rest for His people, not because He needed a break, but because we are mortal and need a time of rest, a time to focus on God. In this, our spirits and bodies are both renewed.
The Old Testament system of Law required keeping the Sabbath as part of the overall moral, legal, and sacrificial system by which the Jewish people satisfied God’s requirements for behavior, government, and forgiveness of sins. The Sabbath was part of the Law in that sense. In order to "remain" in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished (Ezekiel 18:4; Rom. 6:23; Deut. 13:1-9; Num. 35:31; Lev. 20:2, etc.).
But with Jesus’ atonement, we are no longer required to keep the Law. We are not under Law, but grace (Rom. 6:14-15). The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus. He is our rest. We are not under obligation, by Law, to keep it and this goes for the Sabbath as well. It is not a requirement that we keep the Sabbath. If it were, then we would still be under the Law. But, we are not.
Evidence of the Change of Days can be Seen in the NT
The New Testament has ample evidence that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement.

• Rom. 14:5-6, "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. [SUP]6[/SUP] He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."

The entire section of Rom. 14:1-12 is worth careful study. Nevertheless, the instructions here are that individuals must be convinced in their own minds about which day they observe for the Lord. If the seventh day Sabbath were a requirement, then the choice would not be man's, but God’s.

• Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— [SUP]17[/SUP] things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

Notice here that time sequence mentioned. A festival is yearly. A new moon is monthly. A Sabbath is weekly. No one is to judge in regard to this. The Sabbath is defined as a shadow, the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath.

• Acts 20:7, "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."

The first day of the week is Sunday and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching). Additionally, Luke did not use the Jewish system of counting days: sundown to sundown. He used the Roman system: midnight to midnight. This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not the one utilized by Luke.

• 1 Cor. 16:1-2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also.[SUP] 2[/SUP] On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come."

Notice here that Paul is directing the churches to meet on the first day of each week and put money aside. It would seem that this is tithing. So, the instructed time for the church to meet is Sunday. Is this an official worship day set up by the church? You decide.

• Rev. 1:10-11, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,[SUP] 11[/SUP]saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

The New Bible Dictionary says regarding the term, ‘The Lord’s Day’ in Revelation 1:10: "This is the first extant occurrence in Christian literature of heµ kyriakeµ heµmera. The adjectival construction suggests that it was a formal designation of the church’s worship day. As such it certainly appears early in the 2nd century (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, 1. 67).
In many churches today, the term "The Lord’s Day" is used to designate Sunday, the same as it was in the second century.

I hope this is evidence enough to show you that the Bible does not require that we worship on Saturday. If anything, we have the freedom (Rom. 14:1-12) to worship on the day that we believe we should. And, no one should judge us in regard to the day we keep. We are free in Christ, not under law (Rom. 6:14).

The whole idea of it must be restated in the New Testament to be valid doesn't work...

Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

This is not repeated in the New Testament. So your logic says that bestiality is now acceptable?

I've done Rom14 to death but here goes again...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

The subject here? Vegetarianism

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

What is the gold standard here?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…

Luke 18:12


twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles…

G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Meat here is…

G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.

Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.

G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.

Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…

Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…

G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Again, we are dealing with food.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.

And I'll rebut the other assertions as I have time.

 

[john832]

Seems to me this is a common misconception...............the difference is that 9 of the 10 Commandments were "carried over" from the First Covenant - Law, to the New Covenant - Grace............The one not carried over was the 4th........

Uh, show me where it was discontinued? Paul observed it. He also observed the Feast Days in Jerusalem...

Act 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

The Apostles were observing Pentecost in 31AD. If they had not been there, would the church have been born? Sure, but they would not have been part of it.

As to the Sabbath not stated in the New Testament...

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The word for rest is Sabbatismos, a keeping of the Sabbath. Even my Oxford KJV has that in the margin. Here is what the Diaglott has...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

 

[john832]

So do you accept sunday and the catholic church by accepting sunday as your authority you are under ?

The catholics say you do...

“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism On the Obedience Due to the Church, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York).

“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

All according to whom your authority is.

 

[Apostol2013]

The catholics say you do...

“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism On the Obedience Due to the Church, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York).

“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

All according to whom your authority is.

I don't know about seventh day adventist , although i agree with alot of their bible knowledge but not all of it as God taught me through the spirit , yes i observe the Lord on the sabbath not as the my brethn the jews but as My Lord Crist Has taught me ,but I am apostolic in teaching , not as the previous apostolic denominations but as God ordered it , I do not condemm the brethren but uphold and teach the righteousness of God through the pure holy Scripturas . That we all may live the love of Christ not as necessity but because it is the right thing to do not that righteousness by itself will save you but it is necessary for salvation for the reason that we must enter His Holy rest once and for all but if we resist His death then there is no life , the wheat grain must die in order to live unless a grain of wheat dies it cannot live , meaning to die in the flesh quit the resistance the righteousness itself has no saving power without the faith in Jesus , the only reason we know God . That now we are free from sin to serve him because of Christ the sprinkling of His blood for the sins of many , but keep in mind , the sabbath was blessed and made Holy out of all days , the sabbath was blessed from the foundation of this world if the sabbath is Holy to God then it is holy to myself also ...

 

[john832]

I don't know about seventh day adventist , although i agree with alot of their bible knowledge but not all of it as God taught me through the spirit , yes i observe the Lord on the sabbath not as the my brethn the jews but as My Lord Crist Has taught me ,but I am apostolic in teaching , not as the previous apostolic denominations but as God ordered it , I do not condemm the brethren but uphold and teach the righteousness of God through the pure holy Scripturas . That we all may live the love of Christ not as necessity but because it is the right thing to do not that righteousness by itself will save you but it is necessary for salvation for the reason that we must enter His Holy rest once and for all but if we resist His death then there is no life , the wheat grain must die in order to live unless a grain of wheat dies it cannot live , meaning to die in the flesh quit the resistance the righteousness itself has no saving power without the faith in Jesus , the only reason we know God . That now we are free from sin to serve him because of Christ the sprinkling of His blood for the sins of many , but keep in mind , the sabbath was blessed and made Holy out of all days , the sabbath was blessed from the foundation of this world if the sabbath is Holy to God then it is holy to myself also ...

Frankly, I disagree with some of the SDA's basic doctrines. They have the Sabbath and the Commandments correct but do not keep the Feast Days. They think the earth will be barren of life for the Millenium and that poeple go to heaven. Three major doctrines I disagree with and there are more.

 

[prove-all]

brothes in christ, why argue like parasies


yes you get eternal life if you confess jesus

you get to be in his kingdom as promised.

those who confess christ (and) follow Gods law now

will rule under christ in his comming kingdom

 

[chubbena]

What day would that be in China?

It would be the same as 2000 years ago or 6000 years ago or when God spoke in Exodus 20. Thought I answered that when this same question was asked the last time.

 

[john832]

so since you accept the roman catholic church's claim that they changed the sabbath without question...i suppose you likewise accept the roman church's claim that the pope is the successor of peter and that we should pray to mary?

i mean that would be the logically consistent thing to do...

I accept that they claim it, just as they claim to have authority to change the Sabbath to Sunday. The fact of the matter is both claims are false.

 

[chubbena]

Or you could just read Matthew 5 and know what the Lord Jesus Christ is talking about.

Was yoke even mentioned in Matt 5?

There's no if. Matthew 11:28 is what the workers of the law were looking forward to.

There is no reason to only rest from our works on saturdays. Unless you are working at the law.

One is calling white black when saying physical rest is work. One is lazy and he's got to have rich parents or government to physically rest everyday of the week.

hat's the whole reason Christians are able to say that we are under grace and not under law. Because the Lord Jesus has given us rest from our works.

He's the one saying "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." Is He not?

Romans 6:14

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

You get one or the other. Grace or Law. You decide. And it looks like you already have... Obviously you know I think you are making the wrong choice.

And one equates Sabbath rest to sinning?

Romans 3:19-20
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Did He give this law so that one may see sin or did He give this law so one may rest?

 

[chubbena]

brothes in christ, why argue like parasies


yes you get eternal life if you confess jesus

you get to be in his kingdom as promised.

those who confess christ (and) follow Gods law now

will rule under christ in his comming kingdom

Are you saying Pharisees argued among themselves?

 

[chubbena]

The sabbath is really the only one you focus on.

I just show Christians who may be confused that we aren't under the law. We are under Grace. We rely on Christ, not our works.

You attempt to put saved Christians back under the yoke of the Law. I guess I need to give people a different point of view. One that makes more sense if you read the New Testament and have been saved.

It's not a yoke when the government gives one holidays. It's not a yoke when one takes a vacation. It's a yoke when God gives one a day off.
That speaks volume.

 

[Apostol2013]

Frankly, I disagree with some of the SDA's basic doctrines. They have the Sabbath and the Commandments correct but do not keep the Feast Days. They think the earth will be barren of life for the Millenium and that poeple go to heaven. Three major doctrines I disagree with and there are more.

that is what i said i agree with some not all every denomination has its difference but the commonality is jesus ,but in time the barrier will be broken and the truth will be upheld , the truth that jesus came to do away with sin , the truth we are under grace and not Law . but the Law lets us know what sin is . but through the Holy spirit gift we are given the power to overcome these infirmities in order that we may be renewed (blotting out of sins , dying to the flesh ) through obedience in the Holy ghost through God's word we are reborn thanks be to christ .

 

[Apostol2013]

but i do agree that their organization has been compromised as to many denominations like the assemlies of God the God's church of prophecy the association of evangelicals even the association of pentecostals including the asociation of pentecostal universities and the association of the baptist church and it is sad that this is happening so i withdrasw that statement of the sdas as they also have been compromised as the antiChrist has creped in to many of the churches infiltrated to disarm the church of the power of God wich no one can because God is powerfull the very God we serve praise be to jesus christ .

 

[john832]

Why do we worship on Sunday instead of Saturday?
by Matt Slick
In the Old Testament, God stated, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you," (Exodus 20:8-10, NASB). It was the custom of the Jews to come together on the Sabbath, which is Saturday, cease work, and worship God. Jesus went to the synagogue on Saturday to teach (Matt. 12:9, John 18:20) as did the apostle Paul (Acts 17:2; 18:4; ). So, if in the Old Testament we are commanded to keep the Sabbath and in the New Testament we see Jews, Jesus, and the apostles doing the same thing, then why do we worship on Sunday?
First of all, of the 10 commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, only 9 of them were reinstituted in the New Testament: (six in Matt. 19:18, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, honor parents, and worshiping God; Rom. 13:9, coveting. Worshiping God properly covers the first three commandments) The one that was not reaffirmed was the one about the Sabbath. Instead, Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8).

Hmmm, so not restating a Commandment means it was done away? If this is a valid rule, let’s apply it…

Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Not restated in the New Testament so by this logic, bestiality is now acceptable?

As far as the fourth Commandment not being restated, we saw by your own admission that Christ and Paul observed the Sabbath and we are admonished to do this…

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

But oh well, we’ll just ignore these clear scriptures. Now as for that pesky fourth Commandment…

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The word here for rest is Sabbatismos and let’s see what it means…

When we understand and absorb the full meaning of the Greek text of Hebrew 4:9, there is no question that the New Testament upholds the authority of
the Fourth Commandment. The Greek word used here for "rest" is sabbatismos which means "Sabbath rest, Sabbath observance" (Arndt and Gingrich, A
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).

This definition is confirmed by other historical works: "The words `sabbath rest' is from the [Greek] noun sabbatismos, [and is] a unique word in
the NT. This term appears also in Plutarch (Superset. 3 [Moralia 166a]) for sabbath observance, and in four post-canonical Christian writings which are not
dependent on Heb. 4:9" (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, p. 856). This is historical evidence that true Christians were observing the seventh-day Sabbath
long after Emperor Constantine declared that Sunday was the "Christian" day of worship in 325 AD. – Fred Coulter

While sabbatismos is a noun, the verb form of the word is sabbatizo which means, "to keep the Sabbath" (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).

This definition of sabbatizo is confirmed by its use in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament dating from third century BC. Jews used
the Septuagint in synagogues throughout the Roman Empire; Greek-speaking Jewish and Gentile coverts to Christianity used this translation throughout the early
New Testament period. This is why the apostle Paul quotes extensively from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews, which went to all the true churches of
God-Jew and Gentile.

When Paul used sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he did so knowing that its meaning was well known to the Greekspeaking believers of that day. After all,
its verb form (sabbatizo) is widely employed in the Septuagint-which, as a translation, was as familiar to the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles of the
early Church as the King James Bible is to Christians today. – Fred Coulter

Upon the completion of Creation God rested... on the seventh day. But, since God is all powerful, He doesn’t get tired. He doesn’t need to take a break and rest. So, why did does it say that He rested? The reason is simple: Mark 2:27 says, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." In other words, God established the Sabbath as a rest for His people, not because He needed a break, but because we are mortal and need a time of rest, a time to focus on God. In this, our spirits and bodies are both renewed.

So the Sabbath was made for man, yes but what is not stated here also is that the Sabbath is holy time made holy by the Creator. The Creator, Christ (John 1:3), made the Sabbath and made it holy…

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Notice that this verse refers to the creation week and says that God hallowed (made holy) the seventh day, the Sabbath.

The Old Testament system of Law required keeping the Sabbath as part of the overall moral, legal, and sacrificial system by which the Jewish people satisfied God’s requirements for behavior, government, and forgiveness of sins. The Sabbath was part of the Law in that sense. In order to "remain" in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished (Ezekiel 18:4; Rom. 6:23; Deut. 13:1-9; Num. 35:31; Lev. 20:2, etc.).
But with Jesus’ atonement, we are no longer required to keep the Law. We are not under Law, but grace (Rom. 6:14-15). The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus. He is our rest. We are not under obligation, by Law, to keep it and this goes for the Sabbath as well. It is not a requirement that we keep the Sabbath. If it were, then we would still be under the Law. But, we are not.

So apply this to the sixth Commandment and see how the authorities view it.

Apply this line of thinking to the seventh Commandment and see how your spouse views it. Just tell her you are no longer under the Law, I am sure she will understand.

Evidence of the Change of Days can be Seen in the NT
The New Testament has ample evidence that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement.

• Rom. 14:5-6, "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. [SUP]6[/SUP] He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."

The entire section of Rom. 14:1-12 is worth careful study. Nevertheless, the instructions here are that individuals must be convinced in their own minds about which day they observe for the Lord. If the seventh day Sabbath were a requirement, then the choice would not be man's, but God’s.

I have expounded Romans 14 but will in a following post, do it again.

• Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— [SUP]17[/SUP] things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

Notice here that time sequence mentioned. A festival is yearly. A new moon is monthly. A Sabbath is weekly. No one is to judge in regard to this. The Sabbath is defined as a shadow, the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath.

Two real problems with this thinking, one is that it says don’t let anyone judge you FOR KEEPING the Sabbath, not for breaking it. Secondly, Paul wrote this twenty some years after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and he wrote it in future tense. Still looking forward to something, not looking back. Christ is not the Sabbath, Christ is the Creator of and Lord of the Sabbath.

Christ said He was LORD of the Sabbath but nowhere does the scripture say He IS the Sabbath.

The text that you have entered is too long (23151 characters). Please shorten it to 20000 characters long.

So, gotta split this up.

 

[john832]

Part II

• Acts 20:7, "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."

The first day of the week is Sunday and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching). Additionally, Luke did not use the Jewish system of counting days: sundown to sundown. He used the Roman system: midnight to midnight. This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not the one utilized by Luke.

UH, where do you get that he used the Roman method of determining days? It says this nowhere. What it does say is that they broke bread…

Bullinger says…

break bread. See note on Act_2:42. So on to Acts 2:42…

breaking of bread. This was the common meal. Compare verses:##Act_44:46 and Mat_14:19. Isa_58:7.

Now notice Paul preached until after midnight into the next morning. If this is the standard for Sunday worship, do you begin services Sunday some time and continue to Monday morning? That is the example here if you believe this is Sunday.

Let’s see what it really says…

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The first thing to notice is that day is italicized. Means it is not in the original. But what do the rest of the words say?

First:

G3391
μία
mia
mee'-ah
Irregular feminine of G1520; one or first: - a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.

Means first.

Day is not in there.

Of the:

G3588
ὁ, ἡ, τό
ho hē to
ho, hay, to
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.


Means of the.

Week:

G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

Means Sabbaths. What we have here is the first of the Sabbaths. What is that? Bullinger has this…

first, &c. = first day of the sabbaths, i.e. the first day for reckoning the seven sabbaths to Pentecost. It depended upon the harvest (Deu_16:9), and was always from the morrow after the weekly sabbath when the wave sheaf was presented (Lev_23:15). In Joh_20:1 this was the fourth day after the Crucifixion, "the Lord's Passover. "Compare App-156. This was by Divine ordering. But in A.D. 57 it was twelve days after the week of unleavened bread, and therefore more than a fortnight later than in A.D. 29.

So what we have is the first of the seven Sabbaths that we count from the Wave Sheaf to Pentecost…

Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

This is not Sunday at all but rather the first of the seven Sabbaths that we count the fifty days to Pentecost.

• 1 Cor. 16:1-2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also.[SUP] 2[/SUP] On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come."

Notice here that Paul is directing the churches to meet on the first day of each week and put money aside. It would seem that this is tithing. So, the instructed time for the church to meet is Sunday. Is this an official worship day set up by the church? You decide.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

What collection for the saints?

Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Agabus spoke of the famine and the collection here is for the saints in Jerusalem. Let’s read on…

Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
Act 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

So, tie this back to I Cor 16:3 and we see that Paul and Barnabas were going to take this collection to Jerusalem for the starving saints. The collection was foodstuffs, you can’t eat money and these folks in Jerusalem were hungry. Paul again refers to this in II Cor 9…

2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2Co 9:2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
2Co 9:3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
2Co 9:4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
2Co 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
2Co 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
2Co 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
2Co 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

Let’s look at I Cor 16:2 again…

1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

This says nothing about pitching money into the plate, it says that each should lay by himself in store. So if we apply this to passing the plate, one should reach into the plate, take something out, take it home and lay it up there.

This is not about a Sunday go to meetin’ passin’ the plate, it is a collection of foodstuffs for the starving saints in the Jerusalem area and Paul and Barnabas were going to deliver it…

1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

And that one turned out to be Barnabas as we saw in Acts 11:30


so as far as me deciding, it is not up to me or you, that is God's prerogative.

• Rev. 1:10-11, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,[SUP] 11[/SUP]saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

The New Bible Dictionary says regarding the term, ‘The Lord’s Day’ in Revelation 1:10: "This is the first extant occurrence in Christian literature of heµ kyriakeµ heµmera. The adjectival construction suggests that it was a formal designation of the church’s worship day. As such it certainly appears early in the 2nd century (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, 1. 67).
In many churches today, the term "The Lord’s Day" is used to designate Sunday, the same as it was in the second century.

Now nowhere does the scripture say that the Lord’s day is the first day of the week. In fact, the only reference to the day that is the Lord’s is the seventh day Sabbath…

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

In actuality, Rev 1:10 is not referring to a day of the week at all but rather to a period of time known as the Day of the Lord.

This happen every Sunday?

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Joe 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

or for that matter do the events described in the book of Revelation happen every Sunday?

I hope this is evidence enough to show you that the Bible does not require that we worship on Saturday. If anything, we have the freedom (Rom. 14:1-12) to worship on the day that we believe we should. And, no one should judge us in regard to the day we keep. We are free in Christ, not under law (Rom. 6:14).

Hmmm, I see no evidence whatsoever but rather some lame arguments based on misuse of the scriptures.

I believe this may apply to this source...

Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

 

[john832]

Now as to Romans 14 having to do with the Sabbath...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

The subject here? Vegetarianism

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

What is the gold standard here?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…

Luke 18:12


twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles…

G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Meat here is…

G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.

Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.

G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.

Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…

Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…

G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Again, we are dealing with food.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.

 

[Hoffco]

It is clear to me, that Rom.14 is taking about food and days and faith. And that your personal faith, conscience, educated or not, has a lot to do about what is sinful for you. And there is a situational element to our actions, it is not all an absolute decreed of God, it involves our brother's faith, not making him do something against his faith level. So I make sure my FAITH, doctrine, is what God gave the Apostles, the BIBLE. And then I stay away from fellowship with those who argue with me on my FAITH. And I invite my friends ,who don't argue with me, their Bishop, to fellowship with me in my mission, called DREAM: Doug Roberts' Evangelistic Assisting Ministries. The others are told to stay away. So, those of you who agree with me are welcome to joint me on the thread, The book of Romans. I hesitate calling it my thread, because another brother started it, but then abandoned it, so I am trying to con't and finish it, Lord willing. But, please stay away if all you do is argue. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Grandpa]

It's not a yoke when the government gives one holidays. It's not a yoke when one takes a vacation. It's a yoke when God gives one a day off.
That speaks volume.

There's no scripture that says if you take a vacation you must do it a certain way, on a certain day, or else you have broken all the laws of the land.

The Sabbath is not a day off. It is a command to Rest. And if you are going to observe that law then you must observe them all, exactly how the Levitical Priesthood prescribes.

Until you come to faith in Christ. Then you get a New High Priest and a New Better Way.

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

You don't understand Galatians or you don't believe it?