Salvation Not Possible Without Works

homwardbound · May 24, 2014

Do you see the talk out of both sides of the mouth
Must do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not of my own though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
See the contadiction

homwardbound · May 24, 2014

SeaBass said:

While we all are yet failures, selfish in flesh nature, born dead in Spirit and alive in flesh he went and died for us, to reconcile, redeem, forgive us, to give us new life in the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth
When one sees this and enters his rest it is by belief we enter this rest and thus our works are done as God's are since the:

[h=3]Hebrews 4:1-6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

[h=3]Hebrews 3:7-19[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, [SUP]8 [/SUP]harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: [SUP]9 [/SUP]when your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [SUP]11 [/SUP]So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [SUP]15 [/SUP]while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [SUP]19 [/SUP]So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Seabass, Brother it takes full belief not partial, to say it is all God and none of me, you or anyone else is truth, and to add to have to do anything is not complete belief, it is no matter what way you, slice, dice, or cube, God died for all, redeemed us to be presented to Father as whole, to receive from Father neww life in Spirit and truth

homwardbound · May 24, 2014

SeaBass said:

God's grace is pure right? So take a pure glass of water, call this glass God as an analogy.
Drop one drop of ink in that glass of water, is it still pure or tainted?
So to say I must do to get is as a drop of ink in a glass of water.
We are the creation not the creators
Work is a creation, God
Creation does not work it responds to what created it, that be God the creator of all, known Father of Christ and as Christ at the same time (Technically a work, but not of self)

homwardbound · May 24, 2014

SeaBass said:

Our part is to believe 100% not half way, part way or three quarters of the way, all the way.
Remember the parable Christ gave to the Disciples, where one man put in twenty pence to the basket of collections and the woman gave two pence.
And Jesus asked who gave more the man or the woman?
She gave all he gave part, and so how we all just on the outside never seeing the inside.

You keep going though, you are fighting the fight to come to the end of self, keep going you will see as God leads to show you

VCO · May 24, 2014

feedm3 said:

If you are agreeing with me then you are saying, what mankind calls good works, are NOT GOOD, if the motive for doing them is WRONG. The ONLY pure motive for doing good works is because we LOVE GOD and want to reflect HIS nature, Who also dwells in us.

Glad I see that ? ? ? Willful disobedience has ALWAYS been taught to be the opposite Loving GOD; by mainline Christianity; especially in the type of Churches that I have attended since I was saved. Sure there has been "Liberalists" within the ranks, but remember we were warned that the enemy would sow tares among the wheat. Now we are in the End Times, at least the beginning of the birth pangs signalling the End is near. REMEMBER, Christ warned us that near the END, the Laodicean Age would come and lukewarm Liberalists would dominate the Christian Churches. You probably knew this but yes the Seven Letters to the Churches were not only real Churches, but they also symbolized the type of Church that would dominate Christianity, during a specific age. Church HISTORY validates that they dominated in the EXACT same order that those Letters to the Churches are in, as found in the Book of Revelation.

There you go again, you get very close to agreeing with me, then at the last second, you do a U-Turn into that "must do" false doctrine. IT IS WILL DO, WILL DO, WILL DO; IF the seed of Faith at your SALVATION was the REAL McCOY, and not a counterfeit Tare seed sown by the Devil. If that seed of Faith sown in you was the genuine seed; it will PRODUCE a crop of genuine good deeds and obedience, based purely on LOVE FOR GOD.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

He did NOT say MUST KEEP, why do you?

It does not take but a sec to think "turning Love into a MUST DO DUTY; diminishes the QUALITY OF LOVE.

Do you know that Luke 17:10 is talking about BONDSLAVES of the Lord Jesus Christ?

What is the difference between a bondslave and a slave?

A bondslave serves his Master because he willingly wants to serve His Master because HE LOVES HIS MASTER.

A slave serves his Master because he MUST DO IT.

Galatians 5:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

You have been set free from being a slave that MUST DO IT, why do you not want serve HIM only because you LOVE HIM?

I serve HIM because I LOVE HIM.

Why do you serve HIM?

feedm3 · May 24, 2014

VCO said:

Hey man. Stop and think about that one for second. "Pharisee" gets thrown around too much, from both sides.

At this moment, your the one calling someone else a pharisee, based on his interpretation of scripture.

So if he interpreted the same as you do, then he would not be a pharisee?

Doesn't that sound Pharisaical to say?

THe Pharisees thought they that hey had the true interpretation of God's word, concerning all aspects.

They would literally bind this on people as they had the power to do so.

We can only ALL come to this form and state what we believe. I can say "you should" but I cannot bind what i believe on you, as you can say no i dont believe that and go on practicing your interpretation and vice versa.

I know people can say, well when your trying to force your views on here..etc.
This is a Bible discussion form, both sides are forcing their views.
BOTH are saying the opposing is false, and BOTH are accusing the opposing as being in sin for what they believe.

So if I think everyone who does not agree with the way I understand scripture is a Pharisee (even if they believe we must obey) then my mindset is already Pharisaical in itself.

I just was thinking about that, I have called people that to. Just saying

VCO · May 24, 2014

homwardbound said:

While we all are yet failures, selfish in flesh nature, born dead in Spirit and alive in flesh he went and died for us, to reconcile, redeem, forgive us, to give us new life in the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth
When one sees this and enters his rest it is by belief we enter this rest and thus our works are done as God's are since the:

Hebrews 4:1-6

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[SUP]3[/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Hebrews 3:7-19

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, [SUP]8 [/SUP]harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: [SUP]9 [/SUP]when your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [SUP]11 [/SUP]So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [SUP]15 [/SUP]while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [SUP]19[/SUP]So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Seabass, Brother it takes full belief not partial, to say it is all God and none of me, you or anyone else is truth, and to add to have to do anything is not complete belief, it is no matter what way you, slice, dice, or cube, God died for all, redeemed us to be presented to Father as whole, to receive from Father neww life in Spirit and truth

Now that is a BIG AMEN!

John 17:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

VCO · May 24, 2014

feedm3 said:

I have always been taught that Pharisees think their works and obedience are earning their Salvation. After researching the term Pharisee and it's origin, it becomes obvious that it was more than that. It involved a political movement, as a well as adding to what GOD said in His Word. So in that respect, I stand corrected and should not have labeled the "MUST KEEP GOD'S COMMANDS TO BECOME SAVED" false doctrine as modern day Pharisees.

So what do we call those "think their works and obedience are earning their Salvation"? How about just plain "Legalists"?

Whatever title you want me use, it still amounts to a false doctrine.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

newbirth · May 24, 2014

VCO said:

According to you Paul and Timothy not saved because clearly they are working.
[h=3]2 Corinthians 6:1[/h]King James Version (KJV)

6 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

[h=3]2 Corinthians 6[/h]New International Version (NIV)
6 As God’s co-workers[SUP](A)[/SUP] we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain.

Here they are looking for acceptance trying to please God

2 Cor
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

[SUP]7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight

[SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

[SUP]9[/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

2 Cor [SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For we live by faith, not by sight.[SUP](H)[/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.[SUP](I)[/SUP] [SUP]9 [/SUP]So we make it our goal to please him,[SUP](J)[/SUP] whether we are at home in the body or away from it. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us[SUP](K)[/SUP] for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Expect nothing if you have done nothing

posthuman · May 24, 2014

does posting daily the same thing over and over in a thread like this count as "works" ?

VCO · May 24, 2014

newbirth said:

This is the LAST time I am going to explain this, ONLY because you are implying that I believe in doing nothing.

Works NEVER get you one inch closer to becoming saved.

Good Works are a bi-product of having been saved by His Grace!

Do Good Works earn anything?

YES, but not Salvation.

They earn Heaven Rewards and Crowns (like the laurel wreath crowns of the original Olympic Athletes). Salvation IS NOT ONE OF THOSE REWARDS OR CROWNS, it is PURELY AN UNEARNED GIFT.

Ruth 2:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] May the LORD reward you for what you have done, and may you receive a full reward from the LORD God of Israel, under whose wings you have come for refuge.”

Job 34:33 (NIV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Should God then reward you on your terms, when you refuse to repent? You must decide, not I; so tell me what you know.

Psalm 19:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever; the ordinances of the LORD are reliable and altogether righteous.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They are more desirable than gold— than an abundance of pure gold; and sweeter than honey, which comes from the honeycomb.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] In addition, Your servant is warned by them; there is great reward in keeping them.

Matthew 6:1 (ASV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Take heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of them: else ye have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 6:6 (GW)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] When you pray, go to your room and close the door. Pray privately to your Father who is with you. Your Father sees what you do in private. He will reward you.

Luke 6:22-23 (ESV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man!
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.

Colossians 3:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

2 John 1:8 (GW)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Be careful that you don't destroy what we've worked for, but that you receive your full reward.

I REPEAT SALVATION CANNOT BE WORKED FOR, BECAUSE IT IS A GIFT FROM GOD.

1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing?
Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For you are our glory and joy.

2 Timothy 4:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

James 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

1 Peter 5:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.

One more time I repeat, SALVATION is not a Reward NOR a Crown, it is a GIFT FROM GOD.

newbirth · May 25, 2014

VCO said:

One more time I repeat I know it is a gift you love gifts but you don't love to obey...oops I forgot you have already received complete salvation of your soul... my bad sorry...The doctrine of eternal security teaches that once a person experiences salvation, nothing can cause him to lose that status. Millard J. Erickson states: “The Calvinist position is both clear and forthright on this matter: ‘They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved’ ” (Westminster Confession of Faith 17.1).[SUP]2[/SUP]
John 12
[SUP]47 [/SUP]“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.[SUP](BL)[/SUP] [SUP]48 [/SUP]There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them[SUP](BM)[/SUP] at the last day. [SUP]49 [/SUP]For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me[SUP](BN)[/SUP] to say all that I have spoken. [SUP]50 [/SUP]I know that his command leads to eternal life.[SUP](BO)[/SUP] So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”[SUP](BP)[/SUP]

I just follow Gods commands foolish me....

konroh · May 25, 2014

The Gospel of John says that all who believe have eternal life. Paul says in Phil. that when we die we will be absent from the body, present with the Lord. There is an aspect of heaven and eternal life which all who believe will possess and have right now. I have eternal life.

But in the Last Supper discourse in the Gospel of John, Jesus also says that eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, whom He has sent. He speaks of the quality of eternal life that He showed His disciples how to live, disciples who were obedient to Him and followed Him. There is an aspect to this quality of eternal life, an intimate relationship with God, which comes by drawing closer to Him, eschewing sin, developing one's love for God. This is also by faith in Christ, but it is a growing faith, we submit to God's sovereign control over every aspect of our life, all our money, our bodies, our sexual desires, our need to have identity and independence, our need for satisfaction and fulfillment. All our needs can be met and found and fulfilled in the Triune God. This is life eternal.

Kerry · May 25, 2014

What work did you do to get saved?

VCO · May 25, 2014

Kerry said:

NONE, the Holy Spirit in me and Jesus Christ, did it ALL.

VCO · May 25, 2014

newbirth said:

You certainly know NOTHING about me, and VERY LITTLE TRUTH ABOUT THOSE OF US WHO BELIEVE IN THE ETERNAL SECURITY OF BEING IN CHRIST.

OH HOW I LOVE TO OBEY HIM, BECAUSE I LOVE HIM FOR HAVING SAVED ME, WHEN I DESERVED TO GO TO HELL.

OH YES, there no way I can lose my Salvation, because I AM NOT THE ONE WHO IS HANGING ON TO IT.

1 John 2:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

John 10:26-30 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] "I and the Father are one."
John 3:36 (NASB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
{The Desire to show my LOVE for HIM by obeying HIM, validates HE really did SAVE ME.}
Romans 5:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Jude 1:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, {Because of what HE DID, not because of anything I did.}
[SUP]25 [/SUP] to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

VCO · May 25, 2014

newbirth said:

According to you Paul and Timothy not saved because clearly they are working.
2 Corinthians 6:1

King James Version (KJV)

6 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

2 Corinthians 6

New International Version (NIV)
6 As God’s co-workers[SUP](A)[/SUP] we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain.

Here they are looking for acceptance trying to please God

2 Cor
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

[SUP]7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight

[SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

[SUP]9[/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

2 Cor [SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For we live by faith, not by sight.[SUP](H)[/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.[SUP](I)[/SUP] [SUP]9 [/SUP]So we make it our goal to please him,[SUP](J)[/SUP] whether we are at home in the body or away from it. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us[SUP](K)[/SUP] for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Expect nothing if you have done nothing

See how LITTLE you know about our beliefs. We love to obey HIM, because it is a the best way to LOVE HIM BACK FOR HAVING SAVED US.

VCO · May 25, 2014

newbirth said:

The sad thing is, you believed your teachers about what we teach and believe, when most of what they said we believed were lies, rumors, and misunderstandings.

newbirth · May 25, 2014

konroh said:

. Actually it is a deposit /seal for those who remain in him to obtain the full promise in the last day...that is why those who believe will obey.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

John 6:54
King James Version
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
This is how Christ is rejected
Matthew 25:43-46
King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

You were going great until triune ...
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

If you change this fact you reject God to follow man doctrine

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

mailmandan · May 25, 2014

SeaBass said:

We have access by faith in grace (not by works) in which we stand.. (Romans 5:2).

Who obeys Him? Believers or unbelievers? Does the word "obey" in Hebrews 5:9 lead you to believe that we are saved by obedience/works which follow saving faith in Christ? How can you say that you have truly "obeyed Him" (in that sense) unless you have done it completely, 100%? Are you sinless and perfect?

In Romans 10:16, we see: *But they have not all OBEYED the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has BELIEVED our report? Refusing to OBEY the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 1:16) which is refusing to obey Christ unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

Only believers obey Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:10). In either sense, believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16). Without faith, it's impossible to please God, so unbelievers do not obey Him (although they may obey their church) no matter how much so called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh. In either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

Attempting to attain and maintain salvation by works is not obeying Him.

Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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