Follow up thoughts of the "RAPTURE" from previous post!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#21
For those interested you can find a few (short) studies Here, Here and Here on the Second (there are only 2) Coming of Christ and all things pertaining to it...

Yahweh Shalom
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#23
The rapture IS BEFORE the tribulation.
You was right the first time.
Yes believing the rapture is before is what I was brought up believing, but I guess now I want to study myself and believe for myself not just cause it was instilled in me. So I think right now I am neutral on the subject.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#24
For those interested you can find a few (short) studies Here, Here and Here on the Second (there are only 2) Coming of Christ and all things pertaining to it...

Yahweh Shalom
Thank you, reading it now :)
 
O

Osiyo

Guest
#25
Peace and grace to you Lepidus, Biblically there will be a rapture, question is when will it occur, before, during the Tribulation or after the setting up of the Kingdom and the "books" are opened and everybody will be judged one way or the other.

This is the first vision of the Apocalypse. And, significantly and appropriately, it is a vision of our reigning Lord Christ. On the isle of Patmos rising out of the Aegean Sea, in exile for preaching the Word of God. On the Lord’s Day, John was in the spirit of worship and praise and adoration. And while he was worshiping God, he heard behind him a great voice as of a trumpet. And the one who speaks, first identifies Himself. This is all-important because of the amazing, fascinating chronicle that is to follow.

The signature, the author, the authority, the great voice that speaks as a trumpet is the voice of the Lord God. And twice in these few verses, does He identify Himself. Here in verse 8, and it is the same thing in verse 11—the voice as of a trumpet: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, which is, and which was and which is to come, the Almighty” [Revelation 1:8]. So the author of this great Apocalypse is the eternal God—Christ Himself: All of the words of wisdom from heaven and all of the revelations from God are in Him. And the only touch that we have with heaven lies in the Revelation in Christ. He is the sum of the words and the wisdom and the revelation of God.

Then He also said, “What you see, write in a book” [Revelation 1:11]. In the 19th verse, He repeated the same mandate: “Write the things which you have seen, and of the things which are, and of the things which shall be, after these things.” Daniel was commanded not to write, (Daniel 12:4) “Seal up the revelation, until the appointed time. “But here John is commanded to write. It is now, in Christ, an open vision. Write these things for the people of God.
Revelation 4 [SUP]1[/SUP]After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.

This 1st verse in the 4th chapter speak clearly of physical change taking place, physical to spiritual. When Christ returns for the blood-bought, first the dead in Christ will meet Him in the air (flying, neat thought) and then those that are alive, and we're out of here, physical to spiritual in the twinkle of an eye.

Long story short, those found under the thorn are those that are matured for the testimony of the Lamb (5th seal). There are also verses that state that in the end times the Spirit (he controls the spread of evil, holding it back) will be withdrawn, meaning no Holy Ghost, no Holy Ghost no believers, simple one and one or? Be blessed
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#26
Peace and grace to you Lepidus, Biblically there will be a rapture, question is when will it occur, before, during the Tribulation or after the setting up of the Kingdom and the "books" are opened and everybody will be judged one way or the other.

Long story short, those found under the thorn are those that are matured for the testimony of the Lamb (5th seal). There are also verses that state that in the end times the Spirit (he controls the spread of evil, holding it back) will be withdrawn, meaning no Holy Ghost, no Holy Ghost no believers, simple one and one or? Be blessed
Thank you I will read for understanding..
 
Apr 22, 2014
648
5
0
#27
Yes believing the rapture is before is what I was brought up believing, but I guess now I want to study myself and believe for myself not just cause it was instilled in me. So I think right now I am neutral on the subject.


So m it's back to the Bible for you, If you ask the Holy Spirit to help you, He will show you the pre-trib rapture.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#28
So m it's back to the Bible for you, If you ask the Holy Spirit to help you, He will show you the pre-trib rapture.
Yes to the Bible it is! I will ask Him to guide me to the Truth. Thank you.
 
Apr 22, 2014
648
5
0
#29
Peace and grace to you Lepidus, Biblically there will be a rapture, question is when will it occur, before, during the Tribulation or after the setting up of the Kingdom and the "books" are opened and everybody will be judged one way or the other.

This is the first vision of the Apocalypse. And, significantly and appropriately, it is a vision of our reigning Lord Christ. On the isle of Patmos rising out of the Aegean Sea, in exile for preaching the Word of God. On the Lord’s Day, John was in the spirit of worship and praise and adoration. And while he was worshiping God, he heard behind him a great voice as of a trumpet. And the one who speaks, first identifies Himself. This is all-important because of the amazing, fascinating chronicle that is to follow.

The signature, the author, the authority, the great voice that speaks as a trumpet is the voice of the Lord God. And twice in these few verses, does He identify Himself. Here in verse 8, and it is the same thing in verse 11—the voice as of a trumpet: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, which is, and which was and which is to come, the Almighty” [Revelation 1:8]. So the author of this great Apocalypse is the eternal God—Christ Himself: All of the words of wisdom from heaven and all of the revelations from God are in Him. And the only touch that we have with heaven lies in the Revelation in Christ. He is the sum of the words and the wisdom and the revelation of God.

Then He also said, “What you see, write in a book” [Revelation 1:11]. In the 19th verse, He repeated the same mandate: “Write the things which you have seen, and of the things which are, and of the things which shall be, after these things.” Daniel was commanded not to write, (Daniel 12:4) “Seal up the revelation, until the appointed time. “But here John is commanded to write. It is now, in Christ, an open vision. Write these things for the people of God.
Revelation 4 [SUP]1[/SUP]After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.

This 1st verse in the 4th chapter speak clearly of physical change taking place, physical to spiritual. When Christ returns for the blood-bought, first the dead in Christ will meet Him in the air (flying, neat thought) and then those that are alive, and we're out of here, physical to spiritual in the twinkle of an eye.

Long story short, those found under the thorn are those that are matured for the testimony of the Lamb (5th seal). There are also verses that state that in the end times the Spirit (he controls the spread of evil, holding it back) will be withdrawn, meaning no Holy Ghost, no Holy Ghost no believers, simple one and one or? Be blessed



I always thought it was the Holy Spirit holding the anti-Christ back, But He will still be on the earth during the tribulation period, Otherwise no one can get saved during that time, And we know people do get saved in the tribulation period.
The one who is holding the man of sin back, Is the Church, 2 Thess 2: 3, & 6--7. Then he can come, v8.
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#30
It is the "influence" of the Holy Spirit within the body of Christ/the Church that is restraining evil during this dispensation of grace. When the church is raptured, that "influence" will be gone and "all hell will break loose", so to speak. The Holy Spirit is God, so therefore He is ommipresent during the Tribulation period, but He will not be "indwelling" believers as He does during this dispensation. He will "come upon" people, as He did the in the Old Testament.
 
S

Sinnner

Guest
#31
Sinnner,

Do you believe in a pre or post trib rapture of the Church? Joe Schimmel teaches a post trib rapture and conditional security (that it's possible to fall away from the faith even after being saved).

BTW, has Joe Schimmel given away that $10,000 yet?
No he hasn't given the $10,000 away yet. No one can show him a scripture that proves pretribulation. I believe post trib, that's what the bible teaches. I know Joe talks a lot against OSAS and I do not think OSAS is true. You say Joe teaches it but it's what the bible says. He doesn't twist scripture at all to fit a specific doctrine. He preaches it right off of the page.
 
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
89
0
#33
i can't see a rapture in the word. in Revelation 13 we see people taking the mark. Then in Revelation 14:15 the angel shouts with a loud voice, to Thrust in the sickle and reap because the harvest is ripe. When i read Revelation, i read it from outside in, for example, chapter 13, then chapter 17, 14 then 16, and see how they compare. then 15 is right in middle. Check it out.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#34
i can't see a rapture in the word. in Revelation 13 we see people taking the mark. Then in Revelation 14:15 the angel shouts with a loud voice, to Thrust in the sickle and reap because the harvest is ripe. When i read Revelation, i read it from outside in, for example, chapter 13, then chapter 17, 14 then 16, and see how they compare. then 15 is right in middle. Check it out.
Well you need to look in the right place. It is not in Revelation it is in 2 Thess. It is translated caught up not rapture but it has the meaning. English is such and incomplete language sometimes.

God did not make Noah tread water for forty days but placed him in the ark. God will not make His church endure the great tribulation but will take the church away. The tribulation is for Israel and those who want to destroy Israel from off the face of the earth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#36
That's not what the bible says. It does say that God will spare us from his wrath but do you think He can not do that with us here on earth?
Do you think we are caught up to meet Him in the air right after the tribulation only to make an instant about face as He returns to earth to subdue His enemies?
Besides it does not fit into this scenario for the Church...

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
 
Last edited:

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#37
i can only say this for sure(we will see).
If you see it now you can rejoice and give glory to God. Not sorrow as those who have no hope.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
89
0
#38
If you try reading the book of Revelation in two parts. Chapter 1-7. then read 8 then 22, then 9 then 21, and so forth, you may see why i don't believe in rapture. Notice how each one adds to 30? then it comes to the middle chapter 15.
 
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
89
0
#39
i rejoice in God because of what He is doing today, and i trust all will be well in eternity.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#40
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
...and do you have a verse that says that glorious appearing is BEFORE the Tribulation?? Because I have a verse that say's it is AFTER the Tribulation.