It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Jesus will never leave you nor forsake you but you can forsake Him.
I personally do not like that I can forsake him and do in sin again, and want to not so I am elated that not only I have this below:
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

So since I have this and if sin again I can, you can and all who have decide to believe and then trust God can do the below

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

My time of need is 24/7, and by deciding to die daily to me, I am seeing clearer and clearer, as the rain is leaving,
Seeing through a glass darkly when first born of the Spirit of God to clear, and then darkly again as whenever I get a little pride in my way as if I know, when truly only God does, you think Brother?
I am just like a lilly in the field here today, gone tomorrow, so let me say today, in case gone tomorrow

Gods just love you all, that is the foundation, where he while we all are yet failures went to his death for us.
Now ask God how to build from God's amazing love to all, please and love all as you know you are loved. I see no other way to love, but to the extent I am loved, anyone else?
Can anyone else love deeper that what their view is in how they perceive God to just love them,?

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

[h=3]Ephesians 3:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

[h=3]Ephesians 3:17[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

[h=3]Ephesians 3:18[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

Is eternal security about God's love to us or not? So; how deep is that love you all?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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show me the verse that says we are saved by faith alone.
It is reiterated over and over, Alligator, that if we trust the Lord Jesus, we shall have eternal life; where the Lord offers salvation on only 1 condition. I posted a ton of scripture already. I will add more for your blessing.

Once upon a time in Singapore, Acme manufacturer made a guarantee:
"Acme guarantees that if the product breaks in one year, Acme will refund your money."
But it broke in 1 month, & Schnook demanded his money back.

So then the manufacturer pettifogged: "Where does the guarantee say that you get your money back for the product breaking alone? Why we have other requirements for the refund, like you must have done 10 summersaults every day.

Schnook replied: But the guarantee just says, "if the product breaks in one year, Acme will refund your money."

Acme: "Yes, but where does it say you get your money back for the product breaking alone"?

This argument was used in court by Acme, whereupon the judge had the bailiff throw the Acme lawyer in prison for contempt of court, while the CEO of ACME was given a bare-butt caning and made to pay back fourfold.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Nothing else mentioned. No ifs ands or butts.

Now why would you refuse the free gift of salvation and dream up objections? Take the knee now; trust Him; Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
 
Mar 28, 2014
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How you doing with that yourself Brother, you got something there to share how to not ever sin again, predicting future, or can you or I or anyone predict future events?
i truly never want to sin again, yet have not found out how to keep completely from it, except have learned not to harm neighbor, yet have bad thoughts still from time to time, and have unintentionally harmed others. while in anger when things don't go the way I think they should
please share, for I do not ever want to sin again, and you too I think, please?
Where is the faith you boast of can it not work for you? Where is the spirit you boast of can it not lead you? Who is your Lord can you not follow him? Hold fast to your doctrine of man it is where your deliverance comes from.
[h=3]Romans 6:13-16[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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You think Christ had not the power to forgive sin then? Do you really know Christ? Will he ask you that which is not possible? Do you read scripture in faith? Do you really trust God?...
1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Let go of your doctrine of man and see the light of Christ ...


Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Good scripture. Thanks for posting it.

But also you must remember that if we say that we have no Sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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ev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, (TV) and cause that as many as would not kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand the image likeness, etched object RFID, of the beast should be killed.

you take that system God has promised you will not have eternal security.
Those that listen to God and not ignore God that god has given them Spiritual ears shall stand in Faith to the end and not give up
I see the possibility of being held captive by this world in Armageddon, And this world wanting me to take the mark, And they use any and everything of this world that I value, to get me to take this mark.
Kids, wife, food. threatening to kill Family right in front of me, and so on and so forth.
Even saying to me where is my God, where is this Jesus, he is not come to save you, it is a myth. Get it I pray, understand I pray.
Tell your family you will see them after their and your death, call it like it is, endure to the end, even death as Christ already did this for you?
Can anyone reading this do this, not just say so as Peter said he would never deny Christ, yet did. being in flesh dead Spirit, did not want to, yet because dead in Spirit and alive in flesh he did, go back and forth to be accepted did he not?
So all I can say is do not give up, even if it does get as bad as I just put out there
Can you go to the death, or do you value something here on earth more than God the creator of all?
Free choice choose today whom you will serve.
It is a matter of life and death. And no one receives without death first to self, and all this worlds possessions, you think
You know Job sinned, but never denied God, never cursed God. Some thought to think out, do you believce and trust God or are you so wanting to be self-righteous as if you are going to please God?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Was Adam not pure? Didn't Adam walk with God in the cool of the day? Why didn't God eternally secure Him?
or was it free will. There is no evidence that Adam or Eve ever repented in fact it wasn't until seth was grown that men began to call on the name of the Lord.
Thank you fro that great point as I see waht you say I think and it matters not, for I just trust and listen as I grow deeper and deeper into his Grace.

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

God does just love us, wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! amazing yes, so why would anyone when seeing this truth, ever sin willingly
Only if they don't believe is what I see, anyone else? Yet no accusing anyone, for anyone else might as well be a different work in process from God to them personally, Are we not all growing into maturity, as God leads us we will won't we?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Jesus Christ is Lord and that title is not there because it looks good He is our Master and we his servants and servants ought to obey their master in everything.
Now as I see it, who is the Master, is it Christ or the enemy who appears as thew angel of light to fool the people, even the very elect.
The enemy is a copy cat killer, like a Ted Bundy for example. Pleas Father reveal truth to all, me and all. Please we do want to be free and our hearts do cry for you. please show me what is the only way my heart, the void in it is to be filled?
Thank you Father for you are the only one righteous, and thank you Jesus for pointing this out, so I will have righteousness, but never of myself.
No confidence in flesh none as Paul reveals in Phil 3
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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was Balaam eternally secured I meant he spoke the word of God?
Yes carry anyone can speak the word of God, anyone. For me though I ask to be made aware, whenever I speak out of two sides of my mouth
Ex: In Comics when a lot younger, growing up in flesh nature, not yet understanding what i do today as if i know something, when I don't, yet this comic was called Kelly, might have been Marmaduke, a dog that served or was to serve his Master, the kid
One day the Kid says to the dog, hey didn't you say to me last week, this?
And the dog replies, wait a minute I have to check my notes:
And this I learned "What a tangled web one weaves when first set out to deceive.
I am thankful to God for God's mercy that I have received, because I have decieved, and never want to again, and by trust in God to not, I stand a sure chance to not

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

So either one appreciates this and is lead to be a doer by God or a deceiver by the enemy, their own flesh nature they are first born with?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Kerry, forgive me, but I feel like answering, Hee Haw!

what about this, what about that?
What about my niece Mabel who stole a pig from her uncle Marvin? Does that mean she was lost, even though for 5 years she never missed Tuesday Dominos at church? Etc. etc.

Focus on the word of God. Salvation is offered to you as a free gift with eternal life.
Why not get it now?
Do you, Atwood, or are you under the impression that Kerry is not saved? Just wondering by these posts to him?
What the post says, at least as what i see, so I ask you, what is your Judgement on this?
 
A

Alligator

Guest
show me the verse that says we are saved by faith alone.
It is reiterated over and over, Alligator, that if we trust the Lord Jesus, we shall have eternal life; where the Lord offers salvation on only 1 condition. I posted a ton of scripture already. I will add more for your blessing.

Once upon a time in Singapore, Acme manufacturer made a guarantee:
"Acme guarantees that if the product breaks in one year, Acme will refund your money."
But it broke in 1 month, & Schnook demanded his money back.

So then the manufacturer pettifogged: "Where does the guarantee say that you get your money back for the product breaking alone? Why we have other requirements for the refund, like you must have done 10 summersaults every day.

Schnook replied: But the guarantee just says, "if the product breaks in one year, Acme will refund your money."

Acme: "Yes, but where does it say you get your money back for the product breaking alone"?

This argument was used in court by Acme, whereupon the judge had the bailiff throw the Acme lawyer in prison for contempt of court, while the CEO of ACME was given a bare-butt caning and made to upay back fourfold.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Nothing else mentioned. No ifs ands or butts.

Now why would you refuse the free gift of salvation and dream up objections? Take the knee now; trust Him; Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Aah, but here's the difference. We have all the Holy Scriptures and we know up front what the conditions are, the customer, in your example did not. The manufacturer didn't disclose it.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Genesis 3:8

And they heard the voice of the
Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden
Since they walked with Him and talked with Him surely Mr. Calvin would have assumed that they were saved but there is no biblical evidence don't you think that would have been an important item?.

Thanks Kerry, man at that time before the fall, was made a living Soul, not alive to flesh or Christin the Spirit of Father
For their were at that time two trees. one was forbidden, The other was free to eat from
One is evil and the other Life and peace in the Spirit of God, known today as Christ the Lord
This Christ went to the tree and was crucified and this broke the curse in the tree of evil, that evil has a=on flesh, until one comes to the cross and is set free in the resurrected life of Christ

It is the life that saves, not the death. The death did the cleansing, so we can have new life in Spirit and truth in the resurrected Christ right here right now, daily I die to self, hope all to see this. Ans I know god will cause all his to stand
[h=3]Romans 14:4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Everyone that are God's will be standing tall, as God leads and grows us up into maturity, as an apple comes to maturity, it is ready to be eaten from ripe and no bad taste either

John 8:32
and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Which i know you already know, yet it is well to be always be re=minded of is it not?
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Good scripture. Thanks for posting it.

But also you must remember that if we say that we have no Sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
never said or implied....We give God the praised...
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Let go of your doctrine of man and see the light of Christ ...

Yes indeed, newbirth. But does that mean we should ignore your comments when you are not quoting scripture or ignore the statements of men who have the spiritual gift of teaching?

Yes indeed, human tradition and plain old "I said it" proves nothing.

On the other hand, "It is written," as the Lord Jesus declared in debate, even if He quote one verse & not a long context.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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That's the point, Atwood. Our relationship with the Lord is dictated by how strong our faith is. The extent of our faith is revealed by our conduct, our deeds.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come with the angels in his Father's glory. He will repay each person according to his/her conduct.
And by this we shall know who is who at that time, bottom line
Trusted God walked by Faith in this, or trusted self and did good to get good ignoring God as that rich man in Luke 16?
That day will be great glory for some, and i am not happy for not all, unless they choose to trust God all in all. praying for this for God does not want anyone to perish, so along with God to continue Mercy I am with God on this, and not to sin and get away with it: using Chirst as an escape goat, I pray not anyone here or there do this anymore if doing so now
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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48
Aah, but here's the difference. We have all the Holy Scriptures and we know up front what the conditions are, the customer, in your example did not. The manufacturer didn't disclose it.
No, Acme had no conditions but what were in the guarantee; yet it reneged on the grounds that the guarantee did not say "alone." Then it made up stuff as convenient not in the guarantee (which is a contract). One may not object that a contract is not enforceable for not saying "alone" when a condition is specified.

Indeed, we know the condition, unless we have blind eyes and a hard heart.

All the Philipian Jailer was told to answer his question "What must I do to be saved" was "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. It is repeated so many times ALONE with nothing added (faith, believe) that nothing else can be essential.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
 
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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
liars they are all liars justifying there sin by eternal security. I am a sinner saved by grace and nothing more
Thank you Kerry, from what you just said tells me you are eternally secure from Father's view, not yours, or this world's.
And i understand you not wanting to sin, and God just love you in that alone and will teach you as you give up on self doing what you can't do, as you are seeing this slowly yet assuredly
OSAS to me is not an excuse to just sin and get away with it. It is my security, in Trusting Father to never let me go, since I do beleive, Father has taught me from day one, and I have learned to listen to many things, such as quit drinking like a fish, and could take a drink if wanted to, but do not cause I see no need for it today, and am not deceived into once an alcoholic always an alcoholic. That is a lie from this world to keep one captive and not be free.
Now to you and all if think differently, okay, that is ultimately between God and you, whether you beleive the lie once an Alcoholic always and alcoholic
See this using OSAS against us that are, and by past mistakes using OSAS as you are an Alcoholic once have been, which I was
Yet now, I am OSAS by God and God alone. I am no more a part of this earth, I am only in it. as yo9u are as well
So there are two views to OSAS,
1. those that take it for granted
2. Those that appreciated it and are thankful for the freedom from the bondage of this world
And god is the one that teaches us how to say no to any unrighteousness you think Brother?
 
A

Alligator

Guest
No, Acme had no conditions but what were in the guarantee; yet it reneged on the grounds that the guarantee did not say "alone." Then it made up stuff as convenient not in the guarantee (which is a contract). One may not object that a contract is not enforceable for not saying "alone" when a condition is specified.

Indeed, we know the condition, unless we have blind eyes and a hard heart.

All the Philipian Jailer was told to answer his question "What must I do to be saved" was "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. It is repeated so many times ALONE with nothing added (faith, believe) that nothing else can be essential.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
on the Philippian jailer, you did not read far enough. Notice the same hour of the night he was baptized. Also noticed that he did not rejoice until after baptism. Why the urgency to baptize if it is not required?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
373
83
We must live by a life of faith, otherwise our faith is dead faith. Can dead faith save us? What keeps our faith from being dead?
of certainty not self
If man could do this, this God came to earth in Son, born from the virgin and is fruitless then, if anyone could exactly what Christ did.
he thus then died in vain and is not risen either or is he and did he?
[h=3]Hebrews 7:11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?


so what does the Law show us? that we are born imperfect, and need a Savior, a new life in Christ or not?
Is Christ the only way, the truth and this new life? In what is this new life? I mean I was already born alive in my flesh right. what is he talking about, he came to give us new life? I am alive right in this flesh body, right, so what is the new life?


 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Ye Olde Present Tense Canard, The PTC:

It has been claimed that the use of the present tense in Bible verses (which appear to assert security), destroys eternal security, as if the present tense were the only tense used in such contexts. On such a PTC perversion of God's promise, when scripture says "that whosoever believes in Him should not perish," it may be claimed that the meaning is that whosoever continually believes and does not stop believing" does not perish, but if a Christian should slip up and stop believing some day, he is out of luck.

So if the Bible reports in some story: Joe eats pork chops, that would mean, Joe eats pork chops continually and never stops! So when James says "In many things we all stumble," the meaning would be that the Christian stumbles continually and never stops stumbling. This is perversion of the present tense.

But the Present Tense Canarder need give heed to the following in John 5:1 " "Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loves him that begat loves [present tense] [him also that is begotten of him."

On the PTC then, John 5:1 implies eternal security; for it would mean that the Christian not only loves God and other Christians, but continually loves God and other Christians without stopping! Surely only a saved person does that.

On the "present tense canard," this verse would mean that the Christian continually loves and never stops loving; thus how could the Christian be lost?


One way to translate the present tense is with progressive, on-going action, if the context permits it. "Joe eats" would then be "Joe is eating." But the present tense does not imply "without stopping." The present tense in this example does not mean "Joe continually eats and never stops." Actually in the appropriate context, the present tense can mean an action going on "is eating." But the idea of whether or not or how soon it stops is not implied by the present tense. "in many things we all stumble" cannot mean that Christians continually sin without stopping, nor even "continually sin.

When the NT says, "believes," it can be translated "is believing."
For the assurance which follows applies to the a Christian in his present time. If at that present time he is believing, he is promised (stretching into the future forever) that he will not perish. Thus if you are right now believing, trusting in Christ (an action indeed going on), you have assurance of eternal life as a consequence.

But to further clench the conclusion, it should be noted that sometimes in an eternal security verse the present tense is not used.

as Philippians 1:6b states:

"He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. "

"He who began [past tense] a good work in you will [future tense] bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. "

The beginning began at a point in time. Christians don't ooze into being Christians. Their beginning is called a new birth (John 3) when they are begotten by God. A birth, by its very nature, occurs at a point in time. The new birth is a birth to a new life which is eternal, eternal life; i.e., regeneration, as in John 3:16 to everlasting life.

2 Cor 5:17 "Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new."

John 5:1, 4,18 calls the Christian "begotten of God,"
5:1 "Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loves him that begat loves him also that is begotten of him."

As noted above, on the "present tense canard" this verse would mean that the Christian continually loves and never stops loving; thus how could the Christian be lost? If love is the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5), then how could this man in whose being the Spirit continually brings forth love (without stopping) ever become unsaved?

But when the present tense is used for on-going action, the present tense itself does not indicate "without stopping" nor any particular continuation time.


To ignore the present tense then implies one can quit believing and still be saved.

Charles Stanley, who says one can lose his faith and still be saved, tried the "Joe continually eating the pork chop" except Stanley used continually drinking water from a well:

Stanley’s Struggle


Charles Stanley is not unaware of the weakness of his argument. He raises this question: “If our salvation is gained through believing in Christ, doesn’t it make sense that salvation would be lost if we quit believing?” (p. 73).
He concedes that such arguments sound “convincing,” but he believes he has a solution to the problem, and he spends several chapters in his book struggling with it.

As suggested in our discussion of John 3:18 (above), the promise of security is conditioned upon our sustained belief. The present tense form pisteuo (believe) is found several times in John’s Gospel within this type of context (cf. 3:14-16,18; 5:24; 6:29; 6:40).
Now what is the significance of the present tense in Greek? Dana & Mantey (two Baptist scholars) note that the “principle tense” for representing “action as continuous” is the present tense (A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, New York: Macmillan, 1968, p. 178). A.T. Robertson, the greatest Baptist grammarian ever, wrote: “the present tense expresses incompleted action” (A Short Grammar of the Greek New Testament, New York: Hodder & Stoughton, 1908, p. 140).

Quotations of this nature could be multiplied many times over.

I introduce this matter to emphasize that it is incredible that Mr. Stanley, in attempting to avoid the force of the present tense, should say: “The normal use of the present tense does not denote continuous, uninterrupted action” (p. 85).

The gentleman introduces John 4:13 in attempting to sustain his point. Jesus said, “Everyone who drinks [present tense] of this water [from Jacob’s well] shall thirst again.” He declares that it is ridiculous to suggest that those folks were “continuously drinking from Jacob’s well” (p. 86).

He will have to dispute the matter with one of his own spiritual kinsmen — a top Baptist scholar whose scholarship considerably eclipsed that of the Atlanta “Pastor.” Professor Kenneth Wuest translated John 4:13 in this way:

“Whosoever keeps on drinking of this water shall thirst again” (his emp.). He then comments: “Continual drinking at the wells of the world never quenches the soul’s thirst for heart satisfaction” (The Practical Use of the Greek New Testament, Chicago: Moody Press, 1946, p. 43).


Of course the people of Sychar were not drinking in an “uninterrupted” fashion; they were, however, drinking on a sustained basis. And that is what we must do. In spite of temporary lapses of faith due to weakness, we must progressively persevere — if we expect to enjoy eternal life. The tenses make this certain.

What is the point of all this? Mr. Stanley is trying to prove that one does not have to keep on believing in order to make his salvation secure. He advocates the notion that a Christian can completely abandon his faith in God and Christ, become a rank atheist, and the Lord will save him anyhow. Hear him:

“Even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand” (p. 74). Is this not an incredible statement?
What a tragic error this is. Contrast it with the testimony of an inspired writer.


“Take heed, brothers, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God: but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called To-day; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin: for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end: while it is said, To-day if you shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For who, when they heard, did provoke? No, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses? And with whom was he displeased forty years? Was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom he swore that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient? And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12-19; emp. added).



The point being made is this. If the Christian does not remain faithful, he will not enter into the eternal rest that God has prepared for his people (cf. 4:1ff). The doctrine of the “impossibility of apostasy” is a human dogma that has no support in Holy Scripture.
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1131-can-a-christian-ever-be-lost


Phil 1:5,6
For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Those Philippians had become Christians in the past, therefore God had begun, in the past, a good work in them and will in thr future perform that good work. What the passage does not say is that God, in the past, began that good work UNCONDITIONALLY or that God will, in the future, continue that good work UNCONDITIONALLY.
 
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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,188
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where do those graces come from how many pastors hav longed for that grace and when hey mess up we shun them.
This world is focused on whether one sins or not

God is focused on wherther one believes or not
From actual belief flows rivers of running water, where one never thirsts again