Is there such a thing as an atheist?

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mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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Triple A, If you don't believe in God, why are you wasting your time in a Christian forum?
We can only surmise maxwel but at a guess, he is angry that anyone would dare to believe what he doesn't believe so he comes onto sites like this to put us in our place and save us from our sin of believing in and loving God. I doubt if we will ever know because atheists who believe their lies to be the truth do not know what the truth is so they are incapable of admitting to it.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Ask the distinguished Dr. Norman Geisler, whose theological teachings I certainly DO recommend for study, and he'll tell you that Allah is the personal name for God in Islam and that since both Christian and Muslim faiths believe in One supreme sovereign Creator-God, they are obviously referring when they speak of Him, under whatever terms, to the same Being.

But he'll acknowledge along with mainstream apologists that the God of Islam is not the same as the God of Christianity for in Christianity God is a Trinity, but in Islam God is not a Trinity. It is not possible to have God be a Trinity and also not a Trinity at the same time. Furthermore, because Islam denies the Trinity (that there is one God who is comprised of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), it means that Jesus is not the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity as God in Islam:

Quran, 5:73 (Yusuf Ali), “They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.”

So it is clear that the Quran clearly denies one of the essential Christian doctrines about God’s nature so the God of Islam and the God of Christianity are not the same even though some very smart Western theologians assert the words for God in Islam and Christianity are pointing to the same Being but through the lens of their respective epistemologies.

But ask M. Ali and he'll say:

"Muslims use the remotest language possible to describe Allah. They try to make him as transcendent as possible in order to discourage people from conducting research on him. If you ask a Muslim to define Allah, he will just beat about the bush, ascribing attributes to him that neither belong to him nor befit him. But Allah is not as mysterious as Islam would like the world to believe. He has been at the Ka’aba stone all along."

He'll then go on to say that Muhammad was fascinated by the monotheistic creed of Jews and Nestorian Christians and wanted to unite the Arab race under a theocratic setting so chose one of the 360 pagan idols from his clan, specifically the one his father was named for which is Allah and that those who try to single out Allah and deify him above the other Meccan idols should remember that Muhammad could just as easily have picked Manaf, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, or any of the others; and his choice didn'’t win the support of everyone, including his uncle, Abdul Manaf.

M. Ali says this is clear from the fact that Abdul didn’'t submit to Allah and Islam until his death. He held on to Manaf. This elevation of one idol over the other 359 angered the other Meccan clans. The purported persecution of Muhammad was nothing but an inter-tribal or inter-clannish quarrel over whose idol should be or whose should not be venerated.

In the same vein, the Koran was written in Muhammad’s dialect (Quraish). To pacify the other tribes, Muhammad told them (with concocted “revelations”) that the preserved tablet in heaven was written in Quraish. The world was then asked to swallow the Islamic lie that all the Ka’aba idols were destroyed. It just isn’t true. About four of those idols are said to remain. The custodians of Ka’aba should open the stone to independent inspectors should anyone dispute this.

Of course, there is much more to add but the point is that equating Allah as the God of the Bible is in error. They are not the same and disagreement arises amongst theologians as to whether or not Muhammad even intended Allah to refer to the God of the Bible from even the pure monotheistic lens of Islam.

I understand the discussion just fine friend.


Just to be fair, the Bible never claims that other religion's diety's don't exist. All it claims is that they are not God, they are just something else - demon or something most likely. So don't assume Allah doesn't exist. If you research Islam, it is a Pagan moon God but Muhammad copied from Judaism and Christianity. Just do research into it.
 
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We can only surmise maxwel but at a guess, he is angry that anyone would dare to believe what he doesn't believe so he comes onto sites like this to put us in our place and save us from our sin of believing in and loving God. I doubt if we will ever know because atheists who believe their lies to be the truth do not know what the truth is so they are incapable of admitting to it.
Isiaiah 1:13-14“Bring no more vain obligations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies…it is iniquity…Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.”

Psalm 40:6, “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire;…Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required.”

Micah 6:6-8 “With what shall I come before the Lord and bow myself before the high God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? Will the lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has showed you all, O man, what is good; and what he requires of you, - nothing except but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.”

________________

''Come unto me… and I will give you rest.” - Jesus


Christianity is a religion. Calling yourself 'christian' is a vain obligation. Baptism without any purpose other than acceptance to the clan. Doctrinal argument over which esoteric belief gives the grace of God. Notions of truth in a denominational faith opposed to the beliefs of other denominations. It brings more argument than good for what I see here; more strife than peace.

As Jesus said 'how can (satan's) kindgom stand if it is divided against itself?'

Just the same way, mustaphadrink, how can God's kingdom stand if it is divided against itself? All you people seem to do is argue point and premise with one another, and for people like me, you assume far more than you've had the courtesy to ask.
 
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though some may genuinely be arguing just to be right. Many of us are conversing trying to be sure we indeed are understanding things correctly and other times we are trying oh so hard to help our brethren who seem to not understand that which we see so clearly. It's actually more out of love than you think.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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If you don't believe in other religions, or in atheism, why would you pay it heed? If you don't believe in Hinduism, Buddhism, or Islam, why talk about or address any of those, or even live in a world that is filled with people who believe in predominantly those beliefs as opposed to yours?

Why did Jesus ask sinners to sit with him? Why do people stand in crowds and preach? Why does anybody do anything if not because they either should, would, must, can, or just feel like it? What does it matter to you anyway? Do you want me to go? Kick me out? Get me kicked out?

Are you afraid I might upset the status quo? Do you think I might sway someone the wrong direction? Is it fear you ask out of? Anger? Offence?

Why do people get offended? Why does the forum discredit a person because of an option they chose before they came in? Can a non-christian enter a church? Can a non-christian eat with christians? Can a sinner sit with Jeshua of Nazareth, perhaps the most self-sacrificing person that ever walked planet Earth?

Can that happen?

It isn't Jesus I've got an issue with, nor God, it's religion.


I will ask your same question back to you.


If you don't believe in Christianity, why would you pay it heed?

You're profile says you are not a Christian;
if you are NOT a Christian,
why are you here arguing with Christians?

What does it matter to you?

Why are you here?
What is your purpose here?

This isn't an atheist site, it is a Christian site.
Why are you, an atheist, here arguing with Christians?
 
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I will ask your same question back to you.


If you don't believe in Christianity, why would you pay it heed?

You're profile says you are not a Christian;
if you are NOT a Christian,
why are you here arguing with Christians?

What does it matter to you?

Why are you here?
What is your purpose here?

This isn't an atheist site, it is a Christian site.
Why are you, an atheist, here arguing with Christians?
The same reasons anybody would do any of the things I asked above. That was the point.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Amen to this principal! We all need to push back against those who would take our right to pray to God.

[video=youtube;ctwrBqcBcgM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctwrBqcBcgM[/video]
 
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And your comment is insensitive to those who died in the war. Both my wife's and my father died in WW2 so we do not appreciate it. Dying in a bed at home has no comparison to being alive one minute and dead the next because of a bullet in the brain.
How is what I said insensitive?

Seriously, did you not even read what I posted?
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
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Just the same way, mustaphadrink, how can God's kingdom stand if it is divided against itself? All you people seem to do is argue point and premise with one another, and for people like me, you assume far more than you've had the courtesy to ask.
And likewise, the atheists have said more than once that NO atheist speaks for another so lets assume that there are a million atheists in the world so that means we have a million different views about atheism and evolution. Not a good look is it.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
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I will ask your same question back to you.
If you don't believe in Christianity, why would you pay it heed?

You're profile says you are not a Christian; if you are NOT a Christian, why are you here arguing with Christians?

What does it matter to you? Why are you here? What is your purpose here?

This isn't an atheist site, it is a Christian site. Why are you, an atheist, here arguing with Christians?
If the truth were know maxwel he is just doing it because it irks him that christianity is growing in leaps and bounds and atheism which is a religion of nothing isn't. In other words, what they say is falling on deaf ears because they are trying to deny reality with high sounding phrases and so called science which in most cases is nothing more than the vivid imagination of cave dwellers.

At the last count there were 2.1% atheistic people in the world and there were 33% christians. Guess who is losing?
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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How is what I said insensitive? Seriously, did you not even read what I posted?
I will ignore your childish remark and just say that comparing dying slowly in a bed with being alive one minute and dead the next with a bullet in your brain is no comparison.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
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I read things like this, and I wonder how ANYONE can possibly believe this could happen as a matter of chance. Do you atheists really know how incredibly technical the brain is?

8 Brains That Will Blow Yours Away.
That is totally, awesomely and supernaturally amazing Phil. After seeing that, anyone who still believes that everything happens by chance and believes we come from a blob of amoeba is a dumbo of the first order and living in denial because they can't cope with reality.

They should stop calling themselves atheists and call themselves denialists.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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"...if God does not exist and there is no immortality, then all the evil acts of men go unpunished and all the sacrifices of good men go unrewarded."
 
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"...if God does not exist and there is no immortality, then all the evil acts of men go unpunished and all the sacrifices of good men go unrewarded."
You're speaking as if heaven and hell are the only rewards and punishments one can possibly receive. This is blatantly untrue.

Most often, evil deeds are punished. If you're caught lying to your friends all the time, they tend to leave you. If you're caught stealing from people, you're arrested and thrown in jail and sometimes even prison.

People are also rewarded for doing good all the time as well. Help a friend when they're down, and they might just return that favor. Cover for someone at work, and they may do the same for you when you need a day off.

Yes, many actions do go unrewarded and many others go unpunished. Sometimes, evil actions result in people being rewarded and sometimes good intentioned actions result in pain and suffering. It sucks, but that's reality. Does this mean we should just give up just because the world isn't perfect? Of course not.

If I see someone who needs to borrow 5 dollars for gas, do I refuse it to them saying, "Sorry, but many people need 5 dollars for gas. Since I can't give everyone who needs gas 5 dollars, I'm giving it to nobody since what's the point?" Of course not. The reality is, we try our best to help those we can.

This would be funny if it actually reflected reality in even the slightest bit what-so-ever. But it doesn't. How long have you been talking to atheists in this thread? You should know by now that this isn't the thought process behind atheism. Let me fix it for you.

Why atheism?

Theist: What were you before birth?
Atheist: A fetus. And before that, I didn't exist. But the ingredients for my creation did, those ingredients being a single sperm and egg cell. Asking what I was before I was born is like asking what is a cake before you it's baked.

Theist: Why were you born?
Atheist: I was born because my parents had sex. If there's a divine purpose for my existence, I am unaware of it. As it is, there's no reason to assume there is a divine purpose.

Theist: Why are you living?
Atheist: Study health and biology.

Theist: Why will you die?
Atheist: "Why" assumes there's a purpose to our deaths. There is no reason to believe there is one.

Theist: Why are you following atheism?
Atheist: Atheism isn't something you follow or believe in. Atheism is a description of whether or not one believes in one or more gods. Allow me to fix your poorly worded question: Why are you an atheist? Many people believe I'm an atheist because I think I know everything. There's not a single atheist I can think of who has ever made such a ridiculous claim, yet Christians believe this is why we don't believe in God all the time. The TRUTH is, I'm an atheist because I don't find the Bible to be evidence of God. I also find all arguments in support of God's existence to be either wrong or fallacious.

There, I typed what the image SHOULD be saying.

I should also mention that the image you posted of "Atheist Hell" is quite humorous. I love Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal! (Just an FYI, the author of the comic isn't ridiculing atheism. It's satirical. The author is an atheist themselves.)

I read things like this, and I wonder how ANYONE can possibly believe this could happen as a matter of chance. Do you atheists really know how incredibly technical the brain is?

8 Brains That Will Blow Yours Away.
This isn't proof of God's existence. It's merely evidence that the brain is incredibly amazing. Being unable to understand or comprehend something isn't evidence of God, it's merely evidence of our own ignorance. As an atheist, I'll state that reality is mind boggling! It's amazing, complex, and even unbelievable at times! But to suggest none of it can be natural (Watch Maker Fallacy), is a statement based off of an assumed premise that everything complex must have been designed by an intelligent mind. And no, there's zero reason to believe complex life just suddenly appeared. I don't know how life became complex, but there's plenty of evidence suggesting life started out very simple and became complex over time.
 
K

Kerry

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persippi so you have or serve no purpose?
 
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And the question remains "how much evidence do you want?" If thousands of sites on the internet is not enough, plus all the evidence available to your eyes in creation and what the word of God says, then it is obvious that you don't want evidence, you want an argument and the reason you want an argument is that you don't have any evidence for your claims, only speculation based on faith in nothing.
Also, I need to add:

Just because there are thousands of sites and millions of people who claim to have proof of God doesn't mean the evidence is valid.

The problem with using the word of God as proof of God's existence is that you must first accept that the word of God is the word of God. We need evidence it's the word of God first, which requires you prove the existence of God. This is why his word isn't convincing.

You would make the exact same argument as to why one wouldn't accept the word of Allah as evidence for Allah's existence. Because for the word of Allah to be evidence, one would have to first prove Allah.

And before you say anything telling me I can't disprove God, I'm not here to do so. I'm here to explain why atheists don't find any valid reason to believe in him. We don't believe in God because there's a lack of evidence for his existence, not because there's proof he doesn't exist - something which would be impossible to acquire (you can't disprove the existence of any god or a large number of myths).
 
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