It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Cassian]

Originally Posted by Alligator

on the Philippian jailer, you did not read far enough. Notice the same hour of the night he was baptized. Also noticed that he did not rejoice until after baptism. Why the urgency to baptize if it is not required?



The fact remains that the answer to the question of "What must I do to be saved? was "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." Similar offers of salvation or justification are repeated over and over again in scripture, without baptism in the context.

Of course after the jailer trusted Christ as his Savior, the jailer received more teaching. We may infer that water baptism was mentioned. It is an inference from the fact that he got baptized, though there is no teaching about it or statement that water baptism brings salvation (which is never does in scripture). If you view it as something a man-to-be-saved does, it would be a work -- and it is clearly forbidden to think that works save.

To obey the Lord in many things is urgent. Just to know that He wants us to do something gives it urgency. It was urgent that he love his wife (if he had one).

Some are very lax on water baptism, which is very bad. But it is worse to make persons think that some religious ritual saves.

How do you know that he didn't rejoice before baptized? How could he not rejoice the moment he believed? You may as well argue he didn't breathe air when he trusted Christ, since it is not mentioned.

Alligator,
what hinders you from trusting the Lord Jesus as your only and sufficient Savior now, Savior to eternal life and never perishing?

As to Dear Cassian, give attention to the verses. Let them persuade you. Luther wasn't born when these were given. James does not refute them at all.

The overwhelming concept of false teachers is that scripture is a doctrinal thesis. A belief that scripture is a fully contained, exact manual of ideas. You need to have baptism stated everywhere it is inferred or even assumed. That is why sola scripturist will rarely get things correct because when Paul is writing he is assuming that the audience will know and understand what he is talking about.
The Church does not have that problem. They were given the full Gospel. The Apostles taught it to them completely. That meaning is part of the context of scripture. That is what has been preserved within Christ's Body, to which His Gospel was entrusted.
You have essentially made the NT void, except for your favorite verses that you think guarantee eternal life by faith only and instant finite salvation upon a single moment of affirmation of faith. Nice philosophical concept but has nothing to do with scripture. The only part of the NT that is relevant to you are these 5-6 texts in isolation.

Apart from the repetition of the texts that don't support your premise, you also continually describe the opposite as a strawman. You are confusing salvation from death and sin, with attaining eternal life. They are totally separate events.
But carry on, nonetheless........

 

[Atwood]

That is why sola scripturist will rarely get things correct

Cassian, does it ever dawn on you that your rhetoric goes no where because you are not proving from the Bible, and your pontifications mean nothing?[/QUOTE]

Why do you duck the challenge to bring forth some document besides Scripture and then prove that it is God's Word, that is, a document readily available to men in general on earth today? Do you think that sneering proves anything?

Eternal security has been given absolute proof as also justification by faith now on this site.

I do not believe your words. I do believe God's Words.

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Atwood]

"IF . . . IF
but they don't; yet it gets our attention." -Atwood

That's your argument?

"Don't let anything hinder entering into life, into salvation.
What is more a hindrance than human pride? the pride that insists my works must get approved; I don't need grace; I am righteous; I don't need saving by a Savior; I want validation by a judge."-atwood

Thats what you got from this?

[SUP]"8 [/SUP]Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."-Matthew 18


"so don't quote the Scripture to me."- Atwood

Okay, that's the end of our conversations then.

Dead, I am happy if you quote scripture to me. You are quoting my characterization of those who could be said to have eyes that offends them, not my personal attitude. I was presenting the evil attitude of "evil eyes." I see the confusion is my fault for fouling up the quote marks.

I guess you didn't find help in my explanation. I hope you don't have some morbid hangup on this passage. As I said:

IF . . . IF
but they don't; yet it gets our attention.
Don't let anything hinder entering into life, into salvation.
What is more a hindrance than human pride, the pride that insists my works must get approved; I don't need grace; I am righteous; I don't need saving by a Savior; I want validation by a judge.

Now by way of application (principles proven by other scripture), we might encourage the sinner to cut off hands & feet figuratively, that is, cut off our works.

And we need to pluck out our figurative evil eyes which tell us,
"We see, we know; so don't quote the Scripture to me."

 

[Cassian]

Cassian, does it ever dawn on you that your rhetoric goes no where because you are not proving from the Bible, and your pontifications mean nothing?

Don't need to from the Bible. History shows 500 years of the chaos, confusion and division of the use of the principle of sola scriptura. To think that scripture could have so many differing opinions, which is what they are, would be quite preposurous.

Why do you duck the challenge to bring forth some document besides Scripture and then prove that it is God's Word, that is, a document readily available to men in general on earth today? Do you think that sneering proves anything?

You have already stated you read some of the documents but you interpreted them in light of your own bias and personal interpretation just like you do with scripture. It has done nothing for you. You are a modern man. You much prefer your personal opinion than that which the Holy Spirit has preserved within His Body. You have minimized it, denounced it, even demonized it just so that your personal opinion will have some viablilty.
I don't need to prove anything. The Gospel of Christ has been available for 2000 years, unchanged. Man either accepts it as given, or rejects it.

Eternal security has been given absolute proof as also justification by faith now on this site.

ES is only viable within the Calvinistic system of theology. Calvinism as a whole is not scriptural and has been shown that for 500 years already. Justification by faith, as understood by most protestants is not scriptural either since they usually interpret it with the glasses of the Satisfaction theory of Atonement, as developed by Anselm.

I do not believe your words. I do believe God's Words.

I believe God's words also, but I also hold to the meaning of them that was given from the beginning.

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nice text but we already know that your Calvinistic bias changes the meaning of this text. So what is new.
I fully understand your position. If God decreed from before time that certain individuals would be saved, there is no changing God's decree. The fact that the concept is couched in biblical terms makes it all the more egregious. Even the discussion regarding faith, justification by faith is quite moot because the person was saved long before biblical faith enters the picture. If this person was saved before time by a decree of God, then if this person would be saved even without faith. This is where the idea of false, or fake believers what you call professors of faith come relevant. You could have a person believing, showing faith, being baptised, repented, but still is not saved because he was not decreed to be saved. For all the security you preach, you have no security at all because you might end up being one of those who were decieved and was only a professor, not a confessor.

It is why you need to develop all of these scenerios to get around what scripture is actually teaching without the overlay of Calvinism.

 

[Kerry]

Those who endure to the end and Paul said that he turned several people over to Satan because they were caught up in the cares of this world though they worked with him for years.

 

[Kerry]

Eternal security tells people that no matter what they do lie, cheat steal, kill, destroy it's okay. Then the will say well the were never saved to begin with the just thought they were. I don't buy that ocean front property in Idaho either.

 

[Atwood]

The overwhelming concept of false teachers

?

Let's try "prefer my ideas to the Word of God." Or "the Bible only means what my cult says it means."

Again, Dear Cassian, you just run-on, pontificating proving nothing, except you said it. Below let us contrast your pontifications with the Word of God:

Eternal security now has been proven here beyond any doubt, for those who believer God's Word.

is that scripture is a doctrinal thesis.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

A belief that scripture is a fully contained, exact manual of ideas

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish


You need to have baptism stated everywhere it is inferred or even assumed.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

That is why sola scripturist will rarely get things correct because when Paul is writing he is assuming that the audience will know and understand what he is talking about.
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
The Church does not have that problem. They were given the full Gospel.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish


The Apostles taught it to them completely. That meaning is part of the context of scripture.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

That is what has been preserved within Christ's Body, to which His Gospel was entrusted.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

You have essentially made the NT void, except for your favorite verses that you think guarantee eternal life by faith only and instant finite salvation upon a single moment of affirmation of faith.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

Nice philosophical concept but has nothing to do with scripture. The only part of the NT that is relevant to you are these 5-6 texts in isolation.

Apart from the repetition of the texts that don't support your premise,

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

you also continually describe the opposite as a strawman.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

You are confusing salvation from death and sin, with attaining eternal life. They are totally separate events.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

 

[Atwood]

Don't need to from the Bible.

Yes Cassian, no one should need Bible proof, for Cassian hath spoken! Just accept your pontifications because you said it. Let's contrast your "I-said-it's" with the Word of God.

History shows 500 years of the chaos, confusion and division
of the use of the principle of sola scriptura.

Note how Cassian does not respond to the challenge to bring forth anything outside the Bible and prove that it is the Word of God, anything that is readily available to men-in-general now on earth. But he seems to prefer "Sola Cassiana."

To think that scripture could have so many differing opinions, which is what they are, would be quite preposurous.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It has done nothing for you.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You are a modern man.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

that which the Holy Spirit has preserved within His Body.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You have minimized it, denounced it,

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I don't need to prove anything.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The Gospel of Christ has been available for 2000 years, unchanged. Man either accepts it as given, or rejects it.

Cassian rejects:

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

ES is only viable within

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

the Satisfaction theory of Atonement, as developed by Anselm.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I believe God's words also, but I also hold to the meaning of them that was given from the beginning.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nice text

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


For all the security you preach, you have no security at all because you might end up being one of those who were decieved and was only a professor, not a confessor.

I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which He has committed to me against that day!

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is why you need to develop all of these scenerios to get around what scripture is actually teaching

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Atwood]

Eternal security tells people that no matter what they do lie, cheat steal, kill, destroy it's okay. Then the will say well the were never saved to begin with the just thought they were. I don't buy that ocean front property in Idaho either.

Kerry, are you not afraid of a lightning bolt after stating such a blantant falsehood?

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Atwood]

Those who endure to the end and Paul said that he turned several people over to Satan because they were caught up in the cares of this world though they worked with him for years.

Kerry, would you mind refraining from making up things, like the above. "several people" "cares of this world," etc.?

For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing, in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This is part of our eternal security. We don't just get a chance to be saved, we get eternal life for trusting our Savior.

Why can't you trust Him with your destiny, Kerry?

 

[SeaBass]

Dear SeaBass,

No ifs ands or buts,

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

So one can quit hearing and following Christ, therefore no longer be one of Christ's sheep yet still be saved.

Unbiblical, impossible, unfeasible, nonviable, unattainable, implausible, far-fetched, absurd, hopeless, ridiculous, preposterous, unworkable, unrealizable....ain't going to happen.

 

[SeaBass]

Saved, Saves, Salvation, Savior: Hopeful Terms for the Sinner

Attention Those Who Deny Eternal Security:

Do you realize that when you use the Save/Savior terms, you do not even mean that same thing by them that we do? When you say save/saves/saved/saving/salvation/Savior, you mean that the Lord Jesus gives you a chance to be saved, if you do this or that in addition to him giving you a chance at eternal life. In fact, you deny salvation, and you deny that He is your Savior; at best He is a factor in your obtaining eternal life or a partial-savior.

When we say save/saves/saved/saving/salvation/Savior we mean that the Lord Jesus has changed our nature permanently to child of God and secured our blessed destiny to be with Him in a permanent state of bliss. We mean that we are sinners and have to be saved. He is the Savior; we are His savee.

Can You Sing It!?

Jesus! I do now receive Him,
More than all in Him I find.
He hath granted me forgiveness,
I am His, and He is mine.

Refrain
Hallelujah! what a Savior!
Hallelujah! what a Friend!
Saving, helping, keeping, loving,
He is with me to the end.

Jesus! what a Friend for sinners!
Jesus! Lover of my soul;
Friends may fail me, foes assail me,
He, my Savior, makes me whole.


Jesus! what a Strength in weakness!
Let me hide myself in Him.
Tempted, tried, and sometimes failing,
He, my Strength, my victory wins.

Jesus! what a Help in sorrow!
While the billows over me roll,
Even when my heart is breaking,
He, my Comfort, helps my soul.


Jesus! what a Guide and Keeper!
While the tempest still is high,
Storms about me, night overtakes me,
He, my Pilot, hears my cry.

Heb 5:9 says Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that obey Him.

There is no verse that says it is impossible for one to turn from Christ and quit obeying him.

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass, do you suppose that all of the descendants of Jacob were God's elect?

Rom 9
"For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: neither, because they are Abraham’s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed."

Consider the days of Elijah, how many Israelites were there (by God's estimation. There were 7000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal. Ahab asked Elijah a question:


Then he said, Who shall begin the battle? And he answered, Thou. Then he mustered the young men of the princes of the provinces, and they were 232: and after them he mustered all the people, even all the children of Israel, being 7,000.

We should no more confuse the physical nation of Israel with God's elect than we should confuse professed Christians with God's elect. Of course the majority of Israel were idolaters. Only a remnant were worshippers of YHWH believing in Him as their Savior. Of course the nation was judged as a whole. We ought not to confuse the salvation of individuals with God's national dealings. The general populace was quite at odds with the men of God in their midst. I am confident of seeing Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel in heaven, if not the mass of Israelites or "church members."

The mass of Israel was not God's sheep.

John 10:27
"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand."

The Jews, Israelites, the nation of Israel was God's elect, God's chosen and God chastised them many times yet they become lost for they rejected Christ and God finally rejected them, see Romans chapters 9,, 10 and 11. To be saved, they would have to obey the gospel, as a remnant did in Acts 2, yet most would not, Rom 10:16.


So how could they go from being God's elect/chosen to being lost if ES were true?

 

[SeaBass]

Don't worry about what the text does NOT say; be concerned about what it does say. It says nothing about the World Trade Tower -- so what?

The text says that He will perform it; not maybe if the Philippians are good boys.

He began the good work . . . He will perform it. Or breach of contract!



And since the second part follows the first, the past beginning is guaranteed for the future -- nothing about any present tense for you to pettifog on.

he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Now Cassian, if you want this to apply to you, you need to trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

The text does NOT say "Will perform it unconditionally no matter what the Philippians do", yet that is what YOU ARE TRYING TO FORCE IT TO SAY., that is whay YOU are implying.

Just as in J 10:28 YOU are IMPLYING and ADDING ES to the verse as to why God will not all them to be snatched out of His hand while ignoring verse 27 that tells us the reason why God will not allow them to be snatched out of His hand....that reason being they are faithful in their hearing and following is why God will not allow them to be snatched away. ES is not even in the text.

Phil 1:5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;

Just as you imply one can quit hearing and following Christ and still be saved, Jn 10:28, you are implying those Phillippian Christians could quit remaining in the gospel, be removed from it as those in Galatia, Gal 1:6-9 and still be saved. But those in Galatia had fallen from grace for being removed from the gospel.

 

[SeaBass]

Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.

The topic is about being saved to eternal life. 1 Tim 4 certainly does not mention eternal life. There is indeed a daily and momentary salvation from the practice of sin in the life, which is not secure. And the Word of God is an instrument towards that end: "In his law he mediates day and night."

save = eternal life.

 

[Deadtosin]

Yes Cassian, no one should need Bible proof, for Cassian hath spoken! Just accept your pontifications because you said it. Let's contrast your "I-said-it's" with the Word of God.

History shows 500 years of the chaos, confusion and division
of the use of the principle of sola scriptura.

Note how Cassian does not respond to the challenge to bring forth anything outside the Bible and prove that it is the Word of God, anything that is readily available to men-in-general now on earth. But he seems to prefer "Sola Cassiana."

To think that scripture could have so many differing opinions, which is what they are, would be quite preposurous.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It has done nothing for you.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You are a modern man.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

that which the Holy Spirit has preserved within His Body.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You have minimized it, denounced it,

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I don't need to prove anything.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The Gospel of Christ has been available for 2000 years, unchanged. Man either accepts it as given, or rejects it.

Cassian rejects:

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

ES is only viable within

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

the Satisfaction theory of Atonement, as developed by Anselm.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I believe God's words also, but I also hold to the meaning of them that was given from the beginning.

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nice text

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


For all the security you preach, you have no security at all because you might end up being one of those who were decieved and was only a professor, not a confessor.

I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which He has committed to me against that day!

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is why you need to develop all of these scenerios to get around what scripture is actually teaching

neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

 

[homwardbound]

No verse say it is impossible for man to be faithful to God in his hearing and following. Men hear and follow of their own volition.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

So if you are working hard to enter god's rest, God has for you, if not doing this earnestly seeking the rest, then stop, and reconsider truth that set one free, please
Hebrews 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

So does this say if not at rest in what you do or not do, you have not entered, why? because even though one says they believe and is not at rest in that, does not enter, because they really do not beleive, worshiping with their lips and their hearts far from him.
So if you are working as you claim we must, and are not at rest in this work you are claiming, does not that show you; you are alone in you that you do not believe the truth, if not at rest in you.
And if you are working to enter this rest then Brother continue on



Stress is a killer, and is what is a part of the thief that came to steal, kill and destroy us, by getting us to work as if we have any meritorious value


Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[homwardbound]

Never perish even if they quit hearing and following Christ?

Do you not understand and see those that believe that are entered into rest from God by belief and confirmed by the Holy Spirit of God. Will themselves never leave, for the ones at rest by belief trust God and not man, even themselves
God is that good Brother, praying you are on your way to see the truth and make the descision to beleive fullly and have no more doubt as their is no doubt in God

 

[homwardbound]

Through the OT, God chastened His chosen, elect people the Israelites over and over when they turned their back on God again and again turning to idols. They ended upon being cut off (Rom 11:20ff), lost (Rom 10:1-3).

Because they would not turn to belief and trust God to lead, they had to do their own works to get there and is why they never did

 

[homwardbound]

Saved, Saves, Salvation, Savior: Hopeful Terms for the Sinner

Attention Those Who Deny Eternal Security:

Do you realize that when you use the Save/Savior terms, you do not even mean that same thing by them that we do? When you say save/saves/saved/saving/salvation/Savior, you mean that the Lord Jesus gives you a chance to be saved, if you do this or that in addition to him giving you a chance at eternal life. In fact, you deny salvation, and you deny that He is your Savior; at best He is a factor in your obtaining eternal life or a partial-savior.

When we say save/saves/saved/saving/salvation/Savior we mean that the Lord Jesus has changed our nature permanently to child of God and secured our blessed destiny to be with Him in a permanent state of bliss. We mean that we are sinners and have to be saved. He is the Savior; we are His savee.

Can You Sing It!?

Jesus! I do now receive Him,
More than all in Him I find.
He hath granted me forgiveness,
I am His, and He is mine.

Refrain
Hallelujah! what a Savior!
Hallelujah! what a Friend!
Saving, helping, keeping, loving,
He is with me to the end.

Jesus! what a Friend for sinners!
Jesus! Lover of my soul;
Friends may fail me, foes assail me,
He, my Savior, makes me whole.


Jesus! what a Strength in weakness!
Let me hide myself in Him.
Tempted, tried, and sometimes failing,
He, my Strength, my victory wins.

Jesus! what a Help in sorrow!
While the billows over me roll,
Even when my heart is breaking,
He, my Comfort, helps my soul.


Jesus! what a Guide and Keeper!
While the tempest still is high,
Storms about me, night overtakes me,
He, my Pilot, hears my cry.

So those that want the rest in eternal security from God and no other, work hard to enter it, okay or ask God to show you the fastest way through Son

Hebrews 3 and 4 a good word here from God about God's rest God has for us all, if we will believe God and stop doing any and all of our own righteous deeds we think we have