Originally posted by johnluke
that God the Father and Jesus Christ dwell in us by the Holy Spirit.
The reason the Holy Spirit has to do the indwelling is because Jesus has a body of flesh and bone and therefore it would be difficult for him to actually indwell in us, so he sends the Holy Spirit to indwell and it is this person of the Godhead, being spirit can dwell with our spirit and we are enlightened and become men of God.
I'm a little confused by your statement. You are arguing that Jesus isn't God, but agree He indwlls us by the Holy Spirit and you (correctly) call the Spirit a Person of the "Godhead". Godhead means Diety. Therefore, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both God along with the Father.
Originally posted by johnluke
This is not an answer, you say 1 scripture does not trump another. Scripture must agree. So I would like you to reconcile these 2 scriptures. Isaiah says God does not give his glory to another. John says that God gave his glory to his Son Jesus Christ and Jesus gave that same glory to believers. So please make these 2 scriptures agree. Thanks
Not a problem, but you're going to have to look closer at what Jesus is saying, because in Jn.17, He's speaking of two types of glory...one that the Father gave Him as a mortal, which Jesus gave to His disciples and one which is reserved for God alone...which Jesus is entitled to. First Isaiah:
"...My glory will I not give to another." Is.42:8
Gods glory is for God alone. It will not be given to another. Right?
Now look:
"...the hour is come, glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son may glorify Thee." Jn.17:1
This glory had not been given to Jesus during His earthly ministry. It would be attained at a certain hour (which had now come) and cause glory for both Father and Son.
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Jn.17:5
This is the glory reserved for God alone. To be glorified with the Fathers own Self. This glory was once held by Jesus, before His incarnation and would be held by Him again.
"And now I am no more in the world...(vs.11), "And now come I to thee..." (vs.13).
Jesus is glorified as God (with the Fathers own self) after He ascends to Heaven.
Here is the other glory:
"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." Jn.17:22
This glory was received by Jesus during His earthly ministry and shared with His disciples. There is also glory for us to come after the resurrection:
"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. 1 Co.15:40-42
But...Jesus glory will supercede all others:
"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold
my glory..." Jn.17:24
"...and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come. Eph.1:20-21
Originally posted by johnluke
If Jesus is God the Father in the flesh, then why does Jesus continually tell us that God the Father SENT HIM (John 7:16) and that God the Father IS IN HEAVEN (Mark 11:26).
The one that sends cannot be the one that is sent.
Jesus confirms this obvious situation when he says that the Father is in heaven.
So it becomes obvious that God the Father (the sender) stayed in heaven, while Jesus (the one sent) came to earth. Therefore they cannot be the same person.
You're trying to comprehend the nature of God with human understanding.
Originally posted by johnluke
Pauls letter to Titus says that God is manifest in the flesh. This is not God the Father manifest in the Flesh. It is God the Son Jesus Christ manifest in the Flesh. Jesus was the God of Israel in the Old Testament, but he is still not God the Father.
Again, your statement is confusing. We know there is only one God. Since Jesus is "God the Son", He can only be God.
johnluke
In this instant God, the husband of Israel, and Jesus the one that marries Israel are the same person. But God in this scripture is not God the Father, but is again God the Son, the God of the Old Testament, who was sent to earth by God the Father as Jesus who will marry Israel. Jesus is the God of Israel, its creator and its Groom, but again is not God the Father.
You're separating Jesus from His Father. It can't be done:
"...hath not one God created us?" Mal.2:10
Not two Gods, but one. Think about this my friend. Who but God Himself could do what Jesus did...live a sinless life as a human? God could not trust anyone but Himself with mankinds redemption. He redeemed us to Himself, by Himself and all honor is due to Him alone:
"Thus saith Yehovah, thy Redeemer, the Holy One..." Is.48:17
Brother, I'm curious to know, do you think God has feelings?
Originally posted by johnluke
This whole concept of Jesus being the bride groom and Israel is the bride, is an allegory. If it were not, just think about it. Isarel is made up of men and women and children. If Jesus is the bride groom and actually marries Israel, he would be marrying not only women, but men and children. Adultery would be the least of his problems.
Point is, the Israel of God has only One Husband...and that is God.