Self Defense - Is it wrong?
- Thread starter DavidLOVESsnow
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
2Ki 6:14 Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.
2Ki 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
2Ki 6:16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
2Ki 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
2Ki 6:16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
Godly disicpline...
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
A
The English word martyr is derived from the Greek martys, which in the Christian tradition is to maintain one's “witness” to Christ. This doesn't equate to pacifism as some mistakenly believe.
Christian martyrs sometimes died fighting and sometimes were put to death as captives. The one thing they all had in common was that they chose to die rather than renounce their Christian principles and commitment to Christ.
Christian martyrs sometimes died fighting and sometimes were put to death as captives. The one thing they all had in common was that they chose to die rather than renounce their Christian principles and commitment to Christ.
A
I had a nice PM with Maxwell a minute ago and wanted to share a bit of what I said to him because I think it's helpful at this point to do that.
I explained that, "I put my trust in God and make sure I'm prepared and exercising wisdom. Of course, I have been in situations where I was completely unarmed and could do nothing but pray to God. Once, I was surrounded by Hispanic gang members that wanted my things, for example.
It's a personal fault, of course, but I'm not one to give up my stuff to criminals. I'd rather die first. So I simply prayed to God and asked that He receive my spirit because I was sure I was about to fight to the death and lose. Amazingly, the prayer worked and their demeanor became friendly. They stood down and left. I was amazed.
God delivered me with a prayer in that instance. Do not think because I believe in legitimate self-defense that I do not also simultaneously believe in following and trusting God. There is power in prayer.
But there's also been times where I've simply had no other choice: I had to fight for it [to keep breathing]. Feel me? God gives me wisdom to know what to do in each situation.
The Bible tell us to be prepared, be wise, be innocent, pray always, trust God, live at peace with all people as best as we can, etc... I do not see these as mutually exclusive but all one thing. We do them ALL."
Peace and God bless YOU.
I explained that, "I put my trust in God and make sure I'm prepared and exercising wisdom. Of course, I have been in situations where I was completely unarmed and could do nothing but pray to God. Once, I was surrounded by Hispanic gang members that wanted my things, for example.
It's a personal fault, of course, but I'm not one to give up my stuff to criminals. I'd rather die first. So I simply prayed to God and asked that He receive my spirit because I was sure I was about to fight to the death and lose. Amazingly, the prayer worked and their demeanor became friendly. They stood down and left. I was amazed.
God delivered me with a prayer in that instance. Do not think because I believe in legitimate self-defense that I do not also simultaneously believe in following and trusting God. There is power in prayer.
But there's also been times where I've simply had no other choice: I had to fight for it [to keep breathing]. Feel me? God gives me wisdom to know what to do in each situation.
The Bible tell us to be prepared, be wise, be innocent, pray always, trust God, live at peace with all people as best as we can, etc... I do not see these as mutually exclusive but all one thing. We do them ALL."
Peace and God bless YOU.
Can God protect the righteous and the innocent? yes, can He feed the hungry? yes, can He cloth the naked? yes. why then do we feed the hungry? cloth the naked? house the homeless? ARE WE HIS HANDS?
Yes God is there, yes God will give us discernment, but whoa unto me if I am walking by an alley and a school girl squeels and I see her legs kicking behind a dumpster and I don't go there bodily and remove the predator from his prey. That is all.
Yes God is there, yes God will give us discernment, but whoa unto me if I am walking by an alley and a school girl squeels and I see her legs kicking behind a dumpster and I don't go there bodily and remove the predator from his prey. That is all.
Last edited:
I weigh it out. I can strike him in the jaw (not causing very much bodily injury) save he doesn't fall and hit his head on concrete. The jaw is connected to your skull on each side and there are nerves there. When they are jolted/severed they cause immediate unconsciousness. I don't have to stab him, club him, or even break his nose. I can strike him once. Let her go and wait for the police. What is wrong with that?
I was saying to sneak up behind the Attacker and grab them, not stand and get there attention first and let them know what you are about to do before you have done it. But if you do it that away, first thing before you get there attention, is to make sure that you double protect your diaphragm area; because getting stab in that area can cause instant death, and which the other area you bleed to death and which will give the Victim plenty of time to escape like the sands in a Hour glass.
Last edited:
Brother, I appreciate your thoughts but they aren't correct. Listen. Say you sneak up completely behind the attacker and you have him in a bear hug. His hands are at his sides.. Where do you think the knife will be? it's a gamble. Or. I could just hit him once and KNOW she is okay.
To those who much is given much is expected. I am not advocating that everyone should get involved where violence is occurring. For many of the church, calling 9-11 and praying would be the best thing. For me? God saw to it that my life reflected the dangers of the world and that I would be skilled and well taught in this very specific area. I MUST NOT squander away what He has placed in my heart and in my mind, not to forget that He put me in that situation to begin with.
Know this, out of 300 occurrence's I've been in that could and probably would have led to violence, maybe only 10 of them actually ended up that way.
I'm not puffed up, I will accept disgrace and embarrassment, even my fighting stance is just standing normally with my hands at my side. I will do anything to avoid violence. However if they are absolutely set on harming someone because they feel the target is easy I am bound to swap places with the victim. However I do not have the luxury to gamble with the victims life. I have to end it and end it I shall.
I've said it in regards to people drowning. If they were meant to drown, God would not have put me there. I feel the same way in any/every emergency.
To those who much is given much is expected. I am not advocating that everyone should get involved where violence is occurring. For many of the church, calling 9-11 and praying would be the best thing. For me? God saw to it that my life reflected the dangers of the world and that I would be skilled and well taught in this very specific area. I MUST NOT squander away what He has placed in my heart and in my mind, not to forget that He put me in that situation to begin with.
Know this, out of 300 occurrence's I've been in that could and probably would have led to violence, maybe only 10 of them actually ended up that way.
I'm not puffed up, I will accept disgrace and embarrassment, even my fighting stance is just standing normally with my hands at my side. I will do anything to avoid violence. However if they are absolutely set on harming someone because they feel the target is easy I am bound to swap places with the victim. However I do not have the luxury to gamble with the victims life. I have to end it and end it I shall.
I've said it in regards to people drowning. If they were meant to drown, God would not have put me there. I feel the same way in any/every emergency.
I do not believe it is God's intention for me to live in fear. Holding the belief that it would be wrong for me to defend myself if I was attacked would cause me to live in fear. When my father used to hit me, and my siblings too, or my siblings would continually hit me, do you wish for me to believe that it was God's intention for me not to defend myself? Because I can tell you that it mattered little whether I fought back my siblings or not. If I did not defend myself, they would continue hitting me, often clearly enjoying it. So the only choice then was to defend myself, and then remove myself from the situation. Because I didn't have any physical person coming to save me, though I know and truly believe that I have had God and my guardian angels there all along.
I wish to point out the scripture James 2:14-26
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? [SUP]15 [/SUP]Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? [SUP]17 [/SUP]In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP][a][/SUP]? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP][b][/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? [SUP]26 [/SUP]As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
So yes, I believe that if someone is coming to hurt, rape, or kill me or my family, I do believe I am to take action. That doesn't mean that I won't pray to God to protect me and send help. However, this does not conclude that if someone name calls, or does another action to me, that I am to pay him back with evil as well. I think the important thing in self-defense or defending another, is to stay on defense and not go on offense. Only do what is necessary to provide for safety. If one punch is sufficient to stop the person, then there is no need to beat them senseless. If guns are involved and the only way to stop the person is to kill them, then so be it. If you are persecuted, and given the option to renounce Jesus or die, and you cannot defend yourself and remove yourself from the situation, then so be it. Then it is up to you whether you will renounce Jesus or die. I know what my choice would be.
I am sorry for those of you who believe that God would have you live in fear, and not defend yourself from an attacker, for you don't truly know God. God is love, and love protects and defends. He does not wish for His children to be beaten, hurt or otherwise, or to make themselves victims who cannot protect themselves or others. If you love the Lord, and love yourself and others as he has commanded you to, you will practice self-defense as well as the defense of others. I would like to show you 1 Corinthians 13, the definition of love:
13 If I speak in the tongues[SUP][a][/SUP] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. [SUP]2 [/SUP]If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[SUP][b][/SUP] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. [SUP]5 [/SUP]It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. [SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Lastly, I would like to point out the Parable of the Tenants, as I feel it applies here. Luke 20:9-19
He went on to tell the people this parable: “A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. 10At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. 12He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out. 13“Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.’
14“But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ‘This is the heir,’ they said. ‘Let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 15So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
“What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.”
When the people heard this, they said, “God forbid!”
17Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone’[SUP]a[/SUP] ?
18Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”
19The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.
May God Bless you and have you come to know the peace of His love for you, for it is His desire that you feel safe.
I wish to point out the scripture James 2:14-26
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? [SUP]15 [/SUP]Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? [SUP]17 [/SUP]In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP][a][/SUP]? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP][b][/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? [SUP]26 [/SUP]As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
So yes, I believe that if someone is coming to hurt, rape, or kill me or my family, I do believe I am to take action. That doesn't mean that I won't pray to God to protect me and send help. However, this does not conclude that if someone name calls, or does another action to me, that I am to pay him back with evil as well. I think the important thing in self-defense or defending another, is to stay on defense and not go on offense. Only do what is necessary to provide for safety. If one punch is sufficient to stop the person, then there is no need to beat them senseless. If guns are involved and the only way to stop the person is to kill them, then so be it. If you are persecuted, and given the option to renounce Jesus or die, and you cannot defend yourself and remove yourself from the situation, then so be it. Then it is up to you whether you will renounce Jesus or die. I know what my choice would be.
I am sorry for those of you who believe that God would have you live in fear, and not defend yourself from an attacker, for you don't truly know God. God is love, and love protects and defends. He does not wish for His children to be beaten, hurt or otherwise, or to make themselves victims who cannot protect themselves or others. If you love the Lord, and love yourself and others as he has commanded you to, you will practice self-defense as well as the defense of others. I would like to show you 1 Corinthians 13, the definition of love:
13 If I speak in the tongues[SUP][a][/SUP] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. [SUP]2 [/SUP]If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[SUP][b][/SUP] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. [SUP]5 [/SUP]It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. [SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Lastly, I would like to point out the Parable of the Tenants, as I feel it applies here. Luke 20:9-19
He went on to tell the people this parable: “A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. 10At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. 12He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out. 13“Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.’
14“But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ‘This is the heir,’ they said. ‘Let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 15So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
“What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.”
When the people heard this, they said, “God forbid!”
17Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone’[SUP]a[/SUP] ?
18Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”
19The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.
May God Bless you and have you come to know the peace of His love for you, for it is His desire that you feel safe.