Sabbath or Sunday which one is for the true followers of Chirst?

[KohenMatt]

All the OT law have been done away with, replaced by Christ's NT law.

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

 

[john832]

All the OT law have been done away with, replaced by Christ's NT law.

So, the LORD that spoke the Law from Mt. Sinai was the One who became Jesus Christ. What did He do? "*Facepalm* Man I really screwed that OT Law thing up, I better do away with it and make new ones?" How do you know He hasn't changed it again? How do you know we are not on version 13.8?

 

[john832]

All the OT law have been done away with, replaced by Christ's NT law.

If you don't think He got it right the first time from Mt. Sinai, why do you think He got it right through Paul? How many more versions before He does get it right?

I am absolutely certain He does not EVER have to redo.

 

[john832]

You know, this is absolutely typical of human nature. The problem was not the Law...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Instead of admitting that we are the fault and we are the problem, we blame God and His Laws.

 

[SeaBass]

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

Christ came to fulfill the law by keeping those prophecy the OT law made about Him.. Fulfill means to bring to an end, to cease. As when you fulfill an agreement then that agreement ceases, you are no longer bound by it.

 

[KohenMatt]

Christ came to fulfill the law by keeping those prophecy the OT law made about Him.. Fulfill means to bring to an end, to cease. As when you fulfill an agreement then that agreement ceases, you are no longer bound by it.

How could He have brought to and end and ceased something He said to do until heaven and earth pass away?

 

[SeaBass]

Yet Jesus told His disciples (non-Jews included) to follow the Law forever. (Matthew 5)
Jesus and His disciples celebrated Passover.
Jesus' disciples were gathered together after Jesus' death to celebrate Shavuot/Pentecost. (Acts 2)

If Jesus, the disciples and Paul were told by God to celebrate these things, then God wants all Believers to do the same thing as well (by your logic concerning Sunday).

You're right, the OT law is not binding on anyone for salvation's sake, but it never was intended to be.

But the instruction to apply it still stands. Even for Christians. If anyone tries to follow the Law for salvation's sake, they are in error. But if a Christians wants to be obedient to God and show Him that they love Him by keeping His commands, then that is pleasing to God.

When Jesus was alive and upon earth, the OT law was still in effect, that is why Jesus kept it. But as His death, He took it out of the way. After Christ's death and the church began in Acts 2, no NT Christians were commanded to keep the OT law. In fact, the entire Galatian epistle is Paul condemning those Galatian Christians for leaving the NT gospel returning back to the OT law thinking that OT law could justify them, make them righteous.

 

[john832]

Christ came to fulfill the law by keeping those prophecy the OT law made about Him.. Fulfill means to bring to an end, to cease. As when you fulfill an agreement then that agreement ceases, you are no longer bound by it.

And Strong says...

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

Thayer says...

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4134
Citing in TDNT: 6:286, 867

And Christ says...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

[john832]

When Jesus was alive and upon earth, the OT law was still in effect, that is why Jesus kept it. But as His death, He took it out of the way. After Christ's death and the church began in Acts 2, no NT Christians were commanded to keep the OT law. In fact, the entire Galatian epistle is Paul condemning those Galatian Christians for leaving the NT gospel returning back to the OT law thinking that OT law could justify them, make them righteous.

Again, I ask, since He GAVE the Law from Mt. Sinai, how many more changes until He gets it right?

 

[john832]

When Jesus was alive and upon earth, the OT law was still in effect, that is why Jesus kept it. But as His death, He took it out of the way. After Christ's death and the church began in Acts 2, no NT Christians were commanded to keep the OT law. In fact, the entire Galatian epistle is Paul condemning those Galatian Christians for leaving the NT gospel returning back to the OT law thinking that OT law could justify them, make them righteous.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

so tell us, when did heaven and earth pass away?

 

[SeaBass]

So, the LORD that spoke the Law from Mt. Sinai was the One who became Jesus Christ. What did He do? "*Facepalm* Man I really screwed that OT Law thing up, I better do away with it and make new ones?" How do you know He hasn't changed it again? How do you know we are not on version 13.8?

The law was still in effect when Christ was alive. It was after His death His New Testament would come into effect, Heb 9:16,17....For a testament is of force after men are dead

 

[SeaBass]

How could He have brought to and end and ceased something He said to do until heaven and earth pass away?

Jesus point was that it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the OT law not to fulfill it's purpose, to fail at the purpose God intended for it to accomplish. Which it did fulfill its purpose through Christ and it was then taken out of the way. IF the OT law is still binding, then Christ failed at fulfilling it and failed at His mission in coming to earth.


I am always amazed at those who try to keep the OT law active and effective but then do not follow it. But Paul said that OT law was abolished, Eph 2:14,15.

 

[KohenMatt]

When Jesus was alive and upon earth, the OT law was still in effect, that is why Jesus kept it. But as His death, He took it out of the way. After Christ's death and the church began in Acts 2, no NT Christians were commanded to keep the OT law. In fact, the entire Galatian epistle is Paul condemning those Galatian Christians for leaving the NT gospel returning back to the OT law thinking that OT law could justify them, make them righteous.

Then why did Jesus tell His disciples to follow the Law until heaven and earth passed away? Even today, heaven and earth are still there.

And you're right, Paul did speak against those trying to keep the Law to be justified. But again, I'm not saying anyone should. If they do, they're in BIG trouble.

 

[SeaBass]

And Strong says...

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

Thayer says...

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4134
Citing in TDNT: 6:286, 867

And Christ says...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

(my emp)


From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.



hayer says...

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4134
Citing in TDNT: 6:286, 867

 

[kennethcadwell]

Jesus did not do away with the OT law, He made additions and amendments to it in which He told His Apostles and sent them out to teach the same. The OT laws as written in the old testament do not apply the same, but much are still in affect. To say the commandments do not apply is the same as teaching once saved always saved. Many of the churches that teach these two philosophies that I have come across also teach you can live your life however you want, no matter how good or bad. Which is a false and very bad teaching.

 

[KohenMatt]

I am always amazed at those who try to keep the OT law active and effective but then do not follow it. But Paul said that OT law was abolished, Eph 2:14,15.

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

 

[SeaBass]

Then why did Jesus tell His disciples to follow the Law until heaven and earth passed away? Even today, heaven and earth are still there.

And you're right, Paul did speak against those trying to keep the Law to be justified. But again, I'm not saying anyone should. If they do, they're in BIG trouble.

Jesus did not say the OT law would last as long as heaven and earth last, but that it would be EASIER for heaven and earth to pass away than for that OT law to fail to accomplish it's purpose. Not one jot or tittle of the OT law would fail to accomplish its purpose. Again, every jot and tittle did accomplish its purpose through Christ and then was taken out of the way.

 

[SeaBass]

Jesus did not do away with the OT law, He made additions and amendments to it in which He told His Apostles and sent them out to teach the same. The OT laws as written in the old testament do not apply the same, but much are still in affect. To say the commandments do not apply is the same as teaching once saved always saved. Many of the churches that teach these two philosophies that I have come across also teach you can live your life however you want, no matter how good or bad. Which is a false and very bad teaching.

Col 2:14, Heb 10:9 Jesus permanently took away with the OT law replacing it with His much better NT law.

 

[kennethcadwell]

If He did away with it then why in His teachings did He tell the Apostles and others that came to hear Him to observe them?

He told the people to do as the Pharisees say ( preached the law ), but do not do as they do ( which was pervert the law ).

Col 2:14, Heb 10:9 Jesus permanently took away with the OT law replacing it with His much better NT law.

 

[KohenMatt]

Jesus did not say the OT law would last as long as heaven and earth last, but that it would be EASIER for heaven and earth to pass away than for that OT law to fail to accomplish it's purpose. Not one jot or tittle of the OT law would fail to accomplish its purpose. Again, every jot and tittle did accomplish its purpose through Christ and then was taken out of the way.

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

Heaven and earth are still here.

At least here in Colorado.