Sabbath or Sunday which one is for the true followers of Chirst?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JosephIsrael
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

Heaven and earth are still here.

At least here in Colorado.
;)
You should also underline 'until everything is accomplished'
Not long after that Jesus hung on a cross and said 'It is finished!'
 
Col 2:14, Heb 10:9 Jesus permanently took away with the OT law replacing it with His much better NT law.

If He did away with it then why in His teachings did He tell the Apostles and others that came to hear Him to observe them?

He told the people to do as the Pharisees say ( preached the law ), but do not do as they do ( which was pervert the law ).

Good point, Ken.

Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
 
You should also underline 'until everything is accomplished'
Not long after that Jesus hung on a cross and said 'It is finished!'

A lot was accomplished at His death.

But apparently not everything because heaven and earth hasn't passed away yet.
 
The law was still in effect when Christ was alive. It was after His death His New Testament would come into effect, Heb 9:16,17....For a testament is of force after men are dead

Whoa, the Testament and the Law are two different things.

Again, how many iterations will Christ go through before He gets it right? If He didn't get the first one right, how can anyone have any confidence in any that follow?
 
Col 2:14, Heb 10:9 Jesus permanently took away with the OT law replacing it with His much better NT law.

Ever looked into Col 2:14? Or are you just repeating what someone told you?

I'll defer to Dr. Robert Thiel on this one...

What Does Colossians 2:14 Really Say?

It is of interest to note that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" is a Greek legal term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--through Jesus the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"), not the law! "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Heb 10:16).

Even Protestant commentators realize this. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

Some will argue that you still cannot keep the ten commandments (for "all have sinned"), even if they are all mentioned as being in effect after the crucifixion. Does this mean one should not try?

Furthermore, let's look at another translation:

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.

Which requirements were wiped out?

Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!


Now Hebrews 10:9...

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

What is the context here? What did He take away?

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The subject is animal sacrifices. Let's read on...

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Now read verse 9...

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Now let's read verse 10...

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The subject is the replacing of animal sacirifces with the perfect sacrifice of Christ.

To lift verse 9 out of context and put your own meaning on it is akin to doing this...

Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Luk 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Do you recommend that someone go and hang themselves quickly, based on the above passages lifted out of context? You are doing the same thing with Heb 10:9
 
You should also underline 'until everything is accomplished'
Not long after that Jesus hung on a cross and said 'It is finished!'

A lot was accomplished at His death.

But apparently not everything because heaven and earth hasn't passed away yet.

His second coming was not accomplished at His death. The Millenium was not accomplished. The binding of Satan was not accomplished. The Great White Throne Judgment was not accomplished. Hell fire has not burned the earth. New Jerusalem did not come down. The Father has not come down to live with men. and the list goes on and on...

so, has all been accomplished? Has the Law passed away?

NO!
 
a) it does not say how long but long enough for them to worship.
b) it does not say
c) first day of the week, Sunday.
Does the bible say it was worship?
Does anytime a preacher preach implies worship?
Does breaking bread always mean worship?
First day of the week - perhaps blueletterbible would help one understand when it was referring to. By the way, it's Acts 20:7, not Acts 10:7.
What I do know is some say Jesus raised on Sunday morning and the reason why Sunday morning worship.
What we do know is Paul preached until after midnight. Shouldn't we follow the same - whether from Saturday to Sunday morning or from Sunday morning to Sunday evening after midnight?
 
You should also underline 'until everything is accomplished'
Not long after that Jesus hung on a cross and said 'It is finished!'

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
 
chubbena;1564472 What we do know is Paul preached until after midnight. Shouldn't we follow the same - whether from Saturday to Sunday morning or from Sunday morning to Sunday evening after midnight?[/QUOTE said:
That's a good point.

If we're going to say that we should follow Paul's example of meeting on Sunday just because he did it, then we should also follow his example of preaching through the night.
 
If He did away with it then why in His teachings did He tell the Apostles and others that came to hear Him to observe them?

He told the people to do as the Pharisees say ( preached the law ), but do not do as they do ( which was pervert the law ).

In fact my friend, why would Paul say something like this?

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

People like to quote Paul a lot but funny thing, you don't see 'em quoting this one much, or this one...

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
 
That's a good point.

If we're going to say that we should follow Paul's example of meeting on Sunday just because he did it, then we should also follow his example of preaching through the night.

Exactly, start on Sunday afternoon and continue until Monday morning.

I think I already addressed which day this really was anyhoo.
 
You don't fulfill a lot but not everything and then say it is finished :)


OK, where is His coming? Please point it out to me and also, show me where heaven and earth passed away. That would have been quite a show, I am sorry I missed it.
 
You don't fulfill a lot but not everything and then say it is finished :)

So how could Jesus have said that He didn't come to do away with it, but to fulfill it, and then right after that say that until heaven and earth pass away will the Law not pass?

He said until heaven and earth pass away. When He died and said "It is finished", He must have meant something else because heaven and earth hadn't passed away, and still hasn't.
 
So how could Jesus have said that He didn't come to do away with it, but to fulfill it, and then right after that say that until heaven and earth pass away will the Law not pass?

He said until heaven and earth pass away. When He died and said "It is finished", He must have meant something else because heaven and earth hadn't passed away, and still hasn't.
I don't know but its all been done, that's all I see.
 
What Jesus meant by saying it is finished is what He came to do. That was to take our punishment ( curse ) for transgressing the law, and reconciling us back to God.

So how could Jesus have said that He didn't come to do away with it, but to fulfill it, and then right after that say that until heaven and earth pass away will the Law not pass?

He said until heaven and earth pass away. When He died and said "It is finished", He must have meant something else because heaven and earth hadn't passed away, and still hasn't.
 
Whoa, the Testament and the Law are two different things.

Again, how many iterations will Christ go through before He gets it right? If He didn't get the first one right, how can anyone have any confidence in any that follow?

Not to mention the fact that JESUS SAID CLEARLY that THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS WERE UNTIL JOHN!
 
You should also underline 'until everything is accomplished'
Not long after that Jesus hung on a cross and said 'It is finished!'

You don't fulfill a lot but not everything and then say it is finished :)

I don't know but its all been done, that's all I see.

Why be coy? You know that day hasn't come yet.

So has everything been finished?

Or only some things?