It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

Security in Heb 6

Note it is "Surely blessing, I will bless you" not
"If you continue to be a good boy, I will bless you.

It does not say, "Because he patiently endured" no causal connection.
But BTW, by eternal security, every believer does endure.

Note: immutability of His counsel,
not flexibility in case you don't shape up.

The hope is an anchor that may not let go.
The hope is not a little thread that may pop.

"For when God made promise to Abraham, since he could swear by none greater, he sware by himself, saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. And thus, having patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men swear by the greater: and in every dispute of theirs the oath is final for confirmation. Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of the promise the immutability of his counsel, interposed with an oath; that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have a strong encouragement, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us: which we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and stedfast and entering into that which is within the veil; whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek"

RickyZ · Jun 13, 2014

That's quite the case of tunnel-vision you got going there. I pray some day you are open to seeing the big picture. Until then your understanding of the Bible will be limited by those parts you choose to glam onto, and those parts you choose deny. I just hope in the meantime no one takes your one-sided view seriously and decides they can walk away and not pay the price for it.

Kerry · Jun 13, 2014

Re: Security in Heb 6

Atwood said:

Note it is "Surely blessing, I will bless you" not
"If you continue to be a good boy, I will bless you.

It does not say, "Because he patiently endured" no causal connection.

But BTW, by eternal security, every believer does endure.

Note: immutability of His counsel,
not flexibility in case you don't shape up.

The hope is an anchor that may not let go.
The hope is not a little thread that may pop.

"For when God made promise to Abraham, since he could swear by none greater, he sware by himself, saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. And thus, having patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men swear by the greater: and in every dispute of theirs the oath is final for confirmation. Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of the promise the immutability of his counsel, interposed with an oath; that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have a strong encouragement, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us: which we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and stedfast and entering into that which is within the veil; whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek"

And then He scattered Israel. The pharisee's thought as you think. They thought that because they were children of Abraham that they had it made and nothing could happen to them. Boy were they wrong, They didn't exist for almost 2,000 years and Hitler killed 6 million of them.

Cassian · Jun 13, 2014

Re: Worried About Losing "Salvation"?

Atwood said:

You once again show you have no idea of what you are even talking about. Your last sentence a quote of Heb 10:4 is an emphatic denial of the concept of OSAS. If OSAS is actually scriptural the last sentence is meaningless. It cannot happen so why make the assumption?

I'm sure you have a novel twist to get around scripture and fall back into Calvinism/predestination/OSAS but it shows that OSAS is false based on scripture.

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

Re: Security in Heb 6

Kerry said:

Pharisees & Hitler prove I am wrong! Give me a break, Kerry.

What is your proof that the Pharisees trusted the Lord Jesus for their eternal destiny? They did not. But that is how I think. If you check them out, I think you will conclude that they trusted their Mosaic Law works in self-righteousness, going much the same way as those who think it is not faith alone that saves, but obedience / works, contrary to Eph 2. Moreover, they relied on the religious traditions and put them over God's law. Now the closest I know of the the religious traditions they followed are the Mishnah. Now show me where the Mishah teaches eternal security.

I think honesty should compel you to retract that post.

How could the Pharisees think that they were eternally secure for being offspring of Abe when the Babylonians had destroyed the temple, and the Romans were continually killing Jews? If you think that the Pharisees believed in eternal security on any grounds, let's see the proof.

Nothing you said was scriptural, it was just you expressing your lack of faith in the Lord Jesus as Savior. Repent Kerry, and trust Him with your eternal destiny.

He promises his sheep eternal life & that they will never perish.
Do you consider Him a liar?

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

Re: Worried About Losing "Salvation"?

Cassian said:

"Cast not away your boldness" says nothing about salvation or eternal life. It is amazing how people will take this or that which is not about salvation or eternal life, then go on about it.

Mentioning Calvin again, your straw man, proves nothing. I have never said to follow Calvin. Should I go pick some Eastern Orthodox rascal theologian to accuse you of following every post?

Have some of God's Word, Cassian:

an abiding possession!

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

RickyZ said:

Rick, since you prove nothing with the Bible, your post goes over like a lead baloon.
One-sided view?
How many times have you read the Bible through?
Have you done as I have, read it from Gen-Rev marking every salvation verse )& those which persons with the wrong POV would quote). I did that long ago with a pink high-lighter. And I still have that Bible.
I have read the Bible over and over, even memorized entire NT books in Greek on a verse by verse basis (not remembering the whole book -- my memory is not that good).

Eternal security is what salvation is about. If you don't believe in eternal security, then you deny that Christ is your only & sufficient Savior -- you think he is a chance-giver, not the Savior.

You have a desperate problem in that trusting Him as Savior is essential to salvation; but you don't from what you say.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, no ifs ands or buts.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138

"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

Saved to the Uttermost, not Just a Shot at Salavation

The Man Who trusts Christ as Savior is
saved to the uttermost.

And they indeed have been made priests many in number, because that by death they are hindered from continuing: but he, because he abides forever, has his priesthood unchangeable. Wherefore also he is able to save to the uttermost them who draw near to God through him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. - Heb 7

If you were not eternally secure, you would not be saved to the uttermost.
You might just have "a state of grace" until you sinned again.
And comrade, you are going to sin again,
and again, and again, and again.

For some you would think Christ had to endure his body parts popping in & out frequently.
But really that is absurd.

For He is able to save to the uttermost.

Yeah, there may be those out there who say,

"Hold your horses. 'Tain't fair for you to cut me out. I demand the right to demo how righteous and wonderful my own will power is, not to mention my won't power.

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

Believer, Sing Your Eternal Security in Christ

He is able,
He is able,
i know He is able;
I know My Lord is able to carry me through.
2x

He healed the broken-hearted,
And He set the captive free;
He made the lame to walk again,
& He made the blind to see.

Repeat first stanza again.

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

The Believer Has Eternal Security in Redemption

Redemption represents 2 Greek work groups in the NT:
1) (ex)agorazō and buy (out)
2) luō = loose.

Redemption is buying out and setting loose, e.g., a captive of sin.

How effective and permanent is the redemption for the believer?
If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

Now these things having been thus prepared, the priests go in continually into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the services; but into the second the high priest alone, once in the year, not without blood, which he offereth for himself, and for the errors of the people: the Holy Spirit this signifying, that the way into the holy place hath not yet been made manifest, while the first tabernacle is yet standing; which is a figure for the time present; according to which are offered both gifts and sacrifices that
cannot, as touching the conscience, make the worshipper perfect,
being only (with meats and drinks and divers washings) carnal ordinances, imposed until a time of reformation. But Christ having come a high priest of the good things to come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.

If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. His blood can make the believer prefect. Your own self-effort works, cannot. His redemption is eternal. It doesn't last 15 minutes or until you have a lustful thought.

newbirth · Jun 13, 2014

Here we go again meditate on these scriptures brother and I pray your understanding be opened, God be praised
[h=3]John 10:27-29[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

[h=3]John 3:14-16[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[h=3]Matthew 25:40-46[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[h=3]John 12:24-26[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

[h=3]John 17:2-4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

[h=3]Romans 5:20-21[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

[h=3]Romans 2:6-8[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

[h=3]Titus 3:6-8[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

[h=3]1 John 1:1-3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

[h=3]1 John 2:24-26[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

[h=3]1 John 3:14-16[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

[h=3]1 John 5:10-12[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

[h=3]1 John 5:19-21[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Matthew 19:29
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

[h=3]Romans 6:21-23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[h=3]Galatians 6:7-9[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

[h=3]1 Timothy 1:15-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

OSS = the Correct POV; Not OSNS

OSS = once saved . . . saved.
That is, if once you are saved, then you are saved.
Rocket science?

If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
Saved to the uttermost.
Eternal life . . . shall never perish.

OSNS is the satanic claim:

"Once saved . . . not saved" !!!
You have a chance, but don't slip up bud.

So according to some unbelievers,
once you are saved, then you are not saved!

Not only is it satanic, but also self-contradictory.

You cannot be saved without being saved.
If you are saved, then you are saved!

Duh.

Tickle · Jun 13, 2014

The Jews believed that God had predestined them to be saved and they could not go to hell. In Romans 10 and 1 Corinthians 10 Paul shows how the people had fallen into idolatry and God sentenced them to captivity and death. It is only the tiny remnant which had not bowed to Baal and still living in Jerusalem which would turn TO Jesus and be conformed to His life and teachings and not those of Moses.

God Knew Before the small remnant of Jews who had not bowed to Baal.
God pre-purposed that the Gentiles would hear the same gospel.

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Romans 11:2

Is. 49:4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
Is. 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

Notice the two GROUPS which is always the meaning of PREDESTINATED purpose.

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
[1] and to restore the preserved of Israel:
[2]I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
[3]that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Isa 49:6

Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. Isa 49:7

Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee:and I will preserve thee,and give thee for a covenant of the people,to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; Isa 49:8

They are not predestinated with a heavy "period." Rather, God's purpose was always that we ALL be conformed to the image of Christ. However, MANY or most are called (invited) but few are chosen. It is God's predestined will that all be saved.

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

newbirth said:

What a great post, NewB. Thanks for the verses. Of course Romans 2:6-8 needs a context; so lets add it in:

While the principle of 2:6-8 is valid, no one passes a salvation test by their works. "there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; "

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful: who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his works: to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek: for there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;

for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

But if thou bearest the name of a Jew, [goes on about Jews] . . .

yea, let God be found true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
That thou mightest be justified in thy words,
And mightest prevail when thou comest into judgment. . . .

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all them that believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

Salvation is Irrevocable; Eternal Life is Irrevocable

For the wages of Sin is death,
but the free gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is a free gift. But God's gifts are irrevocable.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Atwood · Jun 13, 2014

Tickle said:

Now where do you find any of that in the Bible? Let us not be inventing things. Jews in fact believed all kinds of things. Some denied the resurrection at the time of Christ. I think you need to prove your claim or retract.

Tickle, I don't notice anything like what you posted. Did you accidentally misspeak youself?

Tickle I have no idea what that first sentence means. Now if we are going to discuss the purpose(s) of God, we need to stick close to scripture. Where in the Bible do you find "It is God's predestined will that all will be saved"? In what verses do you find "predestined" and "all"?

The word "predestined" does not occur in my ASV (1901) which is the usual literal translation I use -- probably preferring foreordained. So I searched the KJV and found predestined and all together in one verse only once, that in Ephesians 1:

"we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, "

The word "we" means Christians, not all men.

So I think you had best refrain from making up things.

Predestination is taught in the Bible, but it is hard to understand. The Thread Topic Eternal Security is provable without resort to the concept of predestination. Though I can imagine someone arguing that predestination is more proof of it.

BenFTW · Jun 13, 2014

I hold to the perspective of ESOTB, which differs from OSAS in a small degree. ESOTB means eternal security of the believer. I use to hold to OSAS until I realized that by definition, it isn't accurate in certain respects. I can say I believe in Once saved, always saved for the believer. But, thats just it, for the believer, once someone leaves the faith they are no longer a believer. So, the acronym ESOTB fits better, as it allows for apostasy. For someone, for whatever reason, to deny Christ and forsake the Gospel of Grace. OSAS holds the perspective that a believer can stop believing and depart from the faith (be an apostate) and still be eternally secure and saved. I am open to that, if shown through scripture, but that would revolutionize my understanding of what an apostate is.

I hope I explained that well enough, that in my current revelation apostasy means that you'v denied Christ and His free gift of salvation having once received it you then reject it (not wanting to take part). If that definition is incorrect, I am open to someone explaining why.

Cassian · Jun 14, 2014

Re: Worried About Losing "Salvation"?

Atwood said:

if it is not about salvation why do you keep saying it is about salvation. Your stating eternal security IS salvation, then post scriptures that have the negative action possible, and say it is not about salvation. How quaint and a very expectant answer. I knew you would have a twist to scripture to deny scripture and once again promote the false teaching of OSAS which is a teaching of Calvinism, pure and simple. You can deny it all you want, but it is an historical fact. It surely cannot be found in scripture as scripture has always been understood from the beginning.

You post three more texts that youi have repeated but none, none support OSAS. They support what scripture teaches which are promises of God to the believer, that He will be faithful. But scripture teaches man is free, man is an active agent in the covenantal relationship, and man is the one that cannot guarantee his own faith. Man is the one that fails, not God.

We are not in a predestined arrangement where God is the ONLY agent, and man is but a passive inert object to be used and manipulated by God. OSAS fits very well in such a system. It would be very logical which is why Calvinism is a very well structured system but unfortunately nothing of it can align with scripture.

Cassian · Jun 14, 2014

Re: OSS = the Correct POV; Not OSNS

Atwood said:

That is your strawman. We are not saved as you claim. We possess it in trust. Salvation is conditioned on faith. If one loses faith why would one inherit eternal life? If that is possible then all unbelievers should also inherit eternal life. If faith is not conditional, then since God desires all men to be saved, why not just save all of them?
As I stated before, you hold a lot of false assumptions that cannot be found in scripture.

Spokenpassage · Jun 14, 2014

BenFTW said:

OSAS does not say that...if the term mislead you to believe that's what it meant, then let's use other terms for the exact doctrine.

OSAS = Eternal Security = Perseverance of the saints = held by God (terms that are synonymous).

It does not teach antinomianism and apostasy, which is very contrasted to it.

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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