How is proclaiming that people at a party were drunk when you don't have first hand knowledge of that party, not passing judgement? Is it possible those people were drunk? Sure. However, the person has no place to state they were drunk if not there. People need to stop trying to proclaim a sin when no evidence exists.
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F
They likely were given the state of western culture. I've seen it far too many times to just think it's a once off. The person being a minister has probably counseled people from the effects of it as well.
You only need to look around the bible and it talks about drunkenness. Co-incidence? No. Funny how the bible shines a light into darkness isn't it?
You only need to look around the bible and it talks about drunkenness. Co-incidence? No. Funny how the bible shines a light into darkness isn't it?
Look Stephen, one of the reasons I don't respect you is because you don't deserve it. I've watched you for quite some time pass judgement on others as if you are God himself. You twist scripture to fit your needs or your arguments, and it's tiresome. I may be some dumb dame and not worth anything to you (or FireWire), but I really don't care. Argue, condemn, badger. Be you. I can't change you, and you can't change me. But keep this in mind... you can't judge me on my relationship with Christ because I "attacked" you. And the fact that you didn't use kindness to bring about my repentance, it says a whole lot about you and your "ministry".
And FireWire, I'm super excited about you women bashing and condemning America again. I've missed it.
Have a great day!
And FireWire, I'm super excited about you women bashing and condemning America again. I've missed it.
Have a great day!
F
All he was doing was looking out for her. Does he not have a daughter himself? Is he is not a minister?
It's not about worth nor trying to convert you. This is just stuff that wasn't implied. He wasn't judging anybody's relationship with Christ. What I find screwed up is he was caring about somebody as a shepherd tends his flock which is incidentally what ministers are called to do and finds himself under judgment himself. He well knows that being a minister comes with the territory however. All he did was post some verses and you call it condemnation and judging. That's something a non-Christian would come up with.
Repentance is up to the individual regardless of how the gospel is presented. If anything it's too soft these days. It has nothing to do with how anybody else is or how it's presented. You decide.
It's not about worth nor trying to convert you. This is just stuff that wasn't implied. He wasn't judging anybody's relationship with Christ. What I find screwed up is he was caring about somebody as a shepherd tends his flock which is incidentally what ministers are called to do and finds himself under judgment himself. He well knows that being a minister comes with the territory however. All he did was post some verses and you call it condemnation and judging. That's something a non-Christian would come up with.
Repentance is up to the individual regardless of how the gospel is presented. If anything it's too soft these days. It has nothing to do with how anybody else is or how it's presented. You decide.
But again, you don't KNOW. Also, remember Christ's first miracle. It seems like you would have had a problem with Christ too in that situation. I don't like drunkenness, rather find it moronic, but I am not going to pass judgement on someone when I don't have all the facts. Also to make a generalization about one group based on a society as a whole is by definition passing judgement.
F
No but then it's 50/50 then isn't it given the current moral depravity of western culture. No I don't have a problem with Jesus being in that situation. He was clearly around such people a lot of the time. It's not a generalization. It's years of common observance and seeing the social effects of such behavior and more and more bottle shops opening up and open for a long hours because there's a market for it.
He wasn't passing judgment on the OP either. He was looking out for her. You know a Christian guy who socializes with people who drink. Nothing wrong with that but all sorts of things can go wrong when people get drunk. I've seen it.
He wasn't passing judgment on the OP either. He was looking out for her. You know a Christian guy who socializes with people who drink. Nothing wrong with that but all sorts of things can go wrong when people get drunk. I've seen it.
This whole drinking thing is nonsense and pointless and a complete waste of time. NO ONE gets to judge me or anyone else on whether or not they're a Christian.
And FireWire you're wrong. Me pointing out that Stephen (and you, for that matter) is judging or condemning isn't something that a non-Christian would do. However, the opinion that you two seem to have of me (as well as women) isn't something y'all are going to be talked out of.
Honestly, this argument isn't worth my time. I shouldn't have engaged you two in the first place.
And FireWire you're wrong. Me pointing out that Stephen (and you, for that matter) is judging or condemning isn't something that a non-Christian would do. However, the opinion that you two seem to have of me (as well as women) isn't something y'all are going to be talked out of.
Honestly, this argument isn't worth my time. I shouldn't have engaged you two in the first place.
F
I never specified an opinion about you in the first place neither did Stephen from what I can see. I said some women. Nuts. You decided to engage first so yeah make of it what you will. I do have respect for some women here as a matter of fact. If you don't give respect then don't expect it in return.
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If you wish to debate if Christians can drink, please do it in this snazzy thread I created.
There--> http://christianchat.com/miscellane...ristians-drink-debate-thread.html#post1572080
Click it and debate there.
Please cease with derailing the topic of this current thread.
Thanks.
There--> http://christianchat.com/miscellane...ristians-drink-debate-thread.html#post1572080
Click it and debate there.
Please cease with derailing the topic of this current thread.
Thanks.
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Yeah, so is this scripture for me and my salvation or persnickety and hers?
Labels, people! Labels are helpful.
On that note, this argument is 1) unnecessary, 2) incomplete, and 3) in the wrong forum. You don't get to beat up on people just because you think they're sinning. No one does. If she wants to drink, that's between her and Jesus. If she wants to go to a party and not drink while other people are drinking, that is also between her and Jesus. You don't get to decide her sin is ANY MORE than yours. You don't get to decide the extent of my sin OR my relationship with Christ for that matter either. Quote scripture all you want, but keep in mind that the pharisees and the devil himself know the word of God better than you do.
Labels, people! Labels are helpful.
On that note, this argument is 1) unnecessary, 2) incomplete, and 3) in the wrong forum. You don't get to beat up on people just because you think they're sinning. No one does. If she wants to drink, that's between her and Jesus. If she wants to go to a party and not drink while other people are drinking, that is also between her and Jesus. You don't get to decide her sin is ANY MORE than yours. You don't get to decide the extent of my sin OR my relationship with Christ for that matter either. Quote scripture all you want, but keep in mind that the pharisees and the devil himself know the word of God better than you do.
For my own understanding, when you say these 'small things' made you reflect on your freedom as a single, are you speaking about freedom from commitment to a relationship? I'm sorry if that seems intrusive, but to my little mind that's all I could come up with. Please tell me if that's what you were talking about....I might need a bit of clarification because I'm from an older generation.
Actually, it is between her and God. (I added the bold)
I apologize for adding to the thread when you asked that we not, PersNickety, but I felt I had to say something and defend Aimee's phrasing (and the Lord).