Should we follow Christ, or follow Christ’s Father or follow a triune God?

[RedTent]

Tent I hope you can see that the law was not given in love. The law was given to expose, and Identified sin. That means that the law condemns you and provides no reconciliation. Look, in the wilderness they had grace, The Holy Spirit was with them in the form of a cloud by a day and a pillar of fire by night and when He moved they moved. They feed every morning and it lasted all day. But, because of their rebellion, God gave them the law and some 3,000 people died on that day.

When Peter preached the Gospel on the day of Pentecost some 3,000 got saved and filled with the Spirit. The law is not your friend it is your condemner.

Kerry, I know that your entire picture of your Savior is a picture of God not blessing you with the law. It is in all your posts. Scripture tells you all about how it isn't what the law tells you to do that God uses to save you, it is your faith. You know you can't earn salvation, it is God's grace and love for you that you get that from. You know law is a schoolmaster, telling you what Christ saves you from when you go to Him. The law tells you what would condemn you without Christ. You could pick out all these pieces of scripture and get this as the only picture of God, as you are doing.

There is more!!!!

After God saved all the people from slavery (slavery is a picture of sin) so they had salvation, God wrote out how they could live on this earth with His blessing on their life here. This was a picture of Christ saving us, and how we can then live with God's blessings and be great in the kingdom of heaven. Christ took all of what was told us and elaborated on it all.

You are all excited about the salvation we are offered, it is good. I am, too. But as you can always tell by my posts, I am also excited about the love God always shows us, even about how to live in Christ from day to day, and how God cares about all of our life after He saves us for Himself.

 

[VCO]

Back in that day kindling a fire was a dirty job, and God wants us clean before Him. So maybe an our-day analogy would be don't sweep the chimney before church. Jesus didn't put an end to the law, just how it is paid for. God still wants us clean before Him, we just do that now thru Christ and not a slain cow.

My point REFERRED TO those who INSIST that "Everyone should KEEP the Sabbath or you are practicing the Antichrist's religion." And if you doubt some actually teach that, I have certainly ran into many of them over the years. So, I was pointing out that even they themselves are not KEEPING THE SABBATH, like the Jews did.

I also pointed out that the average January temperature (except for the higher elevations in the Galilean hills), has average temperatures range in the 50-60F (10-15C) in most places, but in the 40's (5C) in Jerusalem. Warm enough to insure you are not going to freeze, nor are your water pipes, while KEEPING THE SABBATH, including not kindling a fire. THAT FACT, supports the fact that GOD really meant it when HE said KEEPING THE SABBATH was a sign between HIM and the children OF ISRAEL.

As far as the so called "dirty job" of kindling a fire; I take it YOU personally did not grow up with a wood burner of any kind. ALSO for your information, CLEANING out the Chimney is a semi-annual chore at the most, NOT A DAILY CHORE. Kindling a fire, amounted to using a sharp hatchet, sitting one already cut log on another, holding the top one with one hand while you chipped splinters off the top one, until you had enough to kindle the glowing coals into a fire again. Yes, you may have to shovel some of the excess asses into a bucket, while you pull with the shovel, the glowing coals into a pile again. Then you place your wood splinters (kindling) on top the pile of glowing coals, and in a short time they would burst into flames. You then put two or three normal sized split logs on the kindling fire, and carried the bucket of asses out and dumped them where you would not catch the grass on fire, should there remain a hot ember. DIRTY JOB? That would be stretching it a very long ways. If it hadn't of been for the spiders, that I always saw on the logs in the wood pile, I wouldn't have considered it a dirty enough job to bother washing my hands.

One other factor that makes your theory of no dirty work, FAR FETCHED, is the reality that Jews going to the Temple to worship, ALWAYS took a ceremonial bath in the mikvahs (bath tubs) just outside the Temple, EVERY TIME JUST BEFORE THEY ENTERED THE TEMPLE.

 

[GentleServant]

One God - three person....How it happens? What is the absolute truth about that? NO ONE KNOWS...ONLY GOD KNOWS...but I trust God when He call Jesus as God and Jesus when He say "Father and I is one" and when He said "I will leave you helper" and "I will be with you until the last age".

ALL throughout the scripture, it is clear the purpose of each one, One God in three different manifestation. If you are going to ask me How is this possible and Why? My answer is I DONT KNOW. I will ask God when I go to heaven. hehe

 

[VCO]

One God - three person....How it happens? What is the absolute truth about that? NO ONE KNOWS...ONLY GOD KNOWS...but I trust God when He call Jesus as God and Jesus when He say "Father and I is one" and when He said "I will leave you helper" and "I will be with you until the last age".

ALL throughout the scripture, it is clear the purpose of each one, One God in three different manifestation. If you are going to ask me How is this possible and Why? My answer is I DONT KNOW. I will ask God when I go to heaven. hehe

How can three parts be ONE? We are living examples, because we are created in His Image.

We are body, soul, and spirit;

YET, we are only ONE human being.

NOTICE that two of our parts are invisible,

and only one part is visible; JUST LIKE GOD.

 

[VCO]

I am sorry, I just now caught my typos in my post above, that should of been ashes in both of those places in my post #122. DOES management need any more proof that you are NOT giving us enough time to correct typos.

 

[newbirth]

How can three parts be ONE? We are living examples, because we are created in His Image.

We are body, soul, and spirit;

YET, we are only ONE human being.

NOTICE that two of our parts are invisible,

and only one part is visible; JUST LIKE GOD.

I will believe God's word not man's doctrine...
If a man is living soul how can he be body and soul ...body + breath of life = living soul
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


[h=3]1 Corinthians 15:44-49[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]44 [/SUP]It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

 

[newbirth]

One God - three person....How it happens? What is the absolute truth about that? NO ONE KNOWS...ONLY GOD KNOWS...but I trust God when He call Jesus as God and Jesus when He say "Father and I is one" and when He said "I will leave you helper" and "I will be with you until the last age".

ALL throughout the scripture, it is clear the purpose of each one, One God in three different manifestation. If you are going to ask me How is this possible and Why? My answer is I DONT KNOW. I will ask God when I go to heaven. hehe

That sound so silly...( your two questions proves it is to you too) One God- three persons ...are these persons Gods? if not what are they, if they are Gods then one God- three Gods. Any one who takes time to look for scripture to support a doctrine will ultimately find them. Anyone who who takes time to look for scripture to find truth will ultimately find it?

 

[chubbena]

yep. And how good are you at following the spirit 24/7?

If one wants to learn from me then believe every word coming from His mouth. Then one would know how disobedient he is and might come to Christ for mercy. Until then.

if you are perfect. You have done something Paul could not do.

Please try something new as no Sabbath keeper has claim being perfect. Name one if you know one.

is that so? Then why did jesus say if you even look at a woman you have committed adutlry? Why did Jesus say if you even look at a woman with lust you have commited adutlry. If you divorce you have caused you wife to commit adutery. Why did jesus haveto spend almost a whole chapter in matthew showing us how inadequate the law was to show us what it means to actually do what the law says?

Didn't you just show how adequate the law is to show sinfulness? Does your version of law of love actually keep you from offending? If so, good for you.

yep. And that is why I cam to Christ and recieved his gift of salvation.

So you see the law through the Holy Spirit has convicted you and has made you to come to Christ. That's good.

it did its job. Why do I need it any longer? What can it teach me that I do not already know?

It's for those who go back to the vomit from time to time. If you don't, you are, as you say, better than Paul. Good for you.

yes what? are you under law or grace? You can not be under both. Scripture is quite clear on this.

If you are clear, then don't go back to your sin. Good.

Anyone who thinks the law is still valid in their lives thinks that. For they have not seen how the law still condemns them, and evidently thinks they must be good according to the law (ie pharisees) Now those names as you should know are quite numerous.

It's false accusing and you have not been able to name one. That's one sin you should come out of.

Testing your own actions is not doing for self. it is doing an examination to see if all you do is for self, or for the benefit of others.

That's how you interpret, not how Paul said it.

Thats the problem with following law. I can say I never commited adultry, thus I follow the law. Yet every time I have ever looked at a woman with lust, I have done just that (because I am thinking of self) Everytime I take sex from my wife, instead of making love to her, I am sin, because I am doing it for self.

Did the Messiah explain what He said in the past clearly and did you just quote that? Again good for you by following your version of law of love you are able to not sin.

That is th eproblem with law followers. they get a false sens of security that they are doing good and ok. Instead of seeing how totally and wretched they are every day of their lives. (as Paul did)

Yet again it's false accusation. When are you going to realize that?

wrong question. the question should be, can the law of moses show us how to do the law of love.

Well, someone is wrong here - and I don't think it was Moses, Joshua or the Messiah.
Moses said: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
Joshua said: Be very careful to keep the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the Lord gave you: to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, to keep his commands, to hold fast to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
The Messiah said: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.This is the first and greatest commandment" when He was asked what the greatest commandment is in the law.

evidently from the OT and Israel, we see if did not do a very good job of that now did it?

We see how impotent man is.

why did God give us a better law. if the old law was in itself good enough to do what the new law wants us to do. it must have been flawed correct?

The law is not the covenant itself but rather the content of it. I believe many have explained this before but I guess you were busy typing and probably missed those.

whats the difference between follow and Obey? they are the same are they not?

Well if one understands what the Messiah said when tempted by Satan one would distinguish between the two. He said "man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God".

and again, have you obeyed the law as it requires? (perfection is the standard set by God)

Have you obeyed your version of the law of love? Yes we should ask each other more often because as it's written "be holy, for I am holy".

I don't know. scripture says once it brings us to christ., the law has done its job and is no longer needed.

so i guess those who claim we must still follow the law have yet to come to christ, would you not agree?

I don't see the "is no longer needed" part.
Isaiah said "The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever."
The Messiah said "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."
Peter said "the word of the Lord endures forever" and he was quoting Isaiah 40:8.

 

[chubbena]

Doesn't sound optional...how to go about keeping that rule without being legalistic... that sounds to me like an individual thing, from what I got here... blessings!

Without prejudice, one may search the word "Sabbath" in the bible and see how God sees it and how the Israel nation offended Him on such, how they were punished, how they repented and go from there. The prophet Jeremiah as well as Isaiah provided plenty of information.

 

[2Thewaters]

[h=3]Should we follow Christ, or follow Christ’s Father or follow a triune God?[/h]
We should always do what God asks us to do

you can get a free Bible called E-SWORD for your computer and once it is installed you can click on the words and see what they REALLY MEAN

some words were obfuscated because they were translated by the church of england and anyone speaking against the Kings church lost their head
so they used other words CORRECT words but choices with little understood meanings and then they just redefined those meanings so they would not loose their head

the Bible itself is true
you just have to dig to find the real meaning of the words

easiest exampl:

Worship means kneel down and adore God
kings dont DO THAT
so they had to put in BLESS!

instead of KNEEL they put bless!
and they kept their head and everyone didnt get how to worship
so they could still bless their king with words only instead of action

this is how the devil makes churches into Babylon

he convinces them dont DO ANYTHING just SAY it
if he can get you to do that you are Babylon

anyway
get the electronic Bible and click FOLLOW
and let us see who to Follow

First pray
Lord, are there any stories in the Bible about FOLLOWING ANYONE?
and meditate

and God will bring to mind several Bible stories how to FOLLOW and who to FOLLOW

then after tha, click on the bible word follow and see if you are right.

if you are wrong say
O WOW MY DOCTRINE WAS WONG FORGIVE ME and let me put away that false doctrine and do your word O God
and God accepts that attitude as perfect service as if you never sinned
Because Jesus blood allows repentance...
it is a gift
pray for it
repentance (look it u_
means to change your ACTIONS
DOING right not saying right alone.

new concept, right?

Did you know MArtin Luther started the REFORMATION by preaching we need to DO THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD?
that WAS the reformation!
Dont jsut claim to be saved, DO THE COMMANDMENTS!

do you know what the Lutherans teach now?

Certainly not that!
BAbylon (confusion) has fallen on the churches

why?
Because they dont WANT TO

thats why
so

FOLLOW
lets see what happens.

"And Jesus saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." -Matthew 4:19.

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." -Matthew 8:22.

"And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him." -Matthew 9:9.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Matthew 16:24.

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." -Matthew 19:21.

"And as he passed by, Jesus saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him." -Mark 2:14.

"And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, Jesus said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Mark 8:34.

"Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me." -Mark 10:21.

"And after these things Jesus went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me." -Luke 5:27.

"And Jesus said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." -Luke 9:23.

"And Jesus said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father." -Luke 9:59.

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." -Luke 18:22.

"The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me." -John 1:43.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" -John 10:27.

"If any man serve Jesus, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour." -John 12:26.

"Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards." -John 13:36.

"This spake Jesus, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me." -John 21:19.


Who is Jesus?

God!
The WORD OF GOD

1 Chr 17:3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying,
1 Chr 17:4 Go and tell David my servant, Thus saith the LORD,


Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


So right after this post the devil will coe and deny it all and then you will forget it
Thats what my Bible says...

Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.



Rev 19:13 And [JESUS] was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


So is there any more question who to follw?

Or should I put up the other 876 verses for you?

 

[chubbena]

Hebrews 4:8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Does one know if it's Jesus or Joshua here is referring to?
Does one know it's argument is based on Psalm 95?
Does one know it's speaking of Joshua 22?

Matthew 11:[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls

Here the Messiah said learn of me. Let's learn how He totally obeyed the word of God without sinning all His life.

You have to kill birds and doves and bullocks because what you are doing is offending the whole law if you offend in one point

Where does the scripture say that. where are they to be sacrificed and where is that place now?

James 2:10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So be careful of what one says and does is James' teaching. It would be a misunderstanding if one takes it as the law is done away.

Everyday is the Sabbath day in Christ Jesus my rest is in his word. Everyday is holy not Sunday or Saturday

And where does the bible say this?

1st Peter 1:15] But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[16] Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Don't forget Peter said "it is written". Does one care to search where it is written and what is said there?

You also have to stay at home not work on the Sabbath day including going to church

Where does the scripture say that?

Exodus 20:[10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.[/quote]Which part of this does one not understand? It's physical rest. Does it mean in Christ one can work seven days a week 365 days a year without a rest?

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath = The head of the Sabbath the Boss

He's the Word who spoke through Moses, isn't He?

Matthew 12:[8] For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus did works and cancelled the day of rest he became that rest!! God is resting from his works he gave all power to the Son.

Did He work for a living, do groceries, go to a ball game or concert and cheer for His idols?

Matthew 28:18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

And this verse is about?

John 5:[19] Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
[20] For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
[21] For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
[23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
[26] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
[27] And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
[30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

And He's the Word of God who spoke through Moses and the prophets.

1st Cor 11:3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

And?

God is the head of my Lord = Boss Jesus Christ and Jesus was given all power from his Father. The book of Acts proves that people could not keep the Sabbath day they had to leave their places to a gathering and Paul preached to them as he knew this was the time to preach to them or else Paul and the other people if that was the case we observe the Sabbath day would not be allowed to speak to people they be at home.

Has one actually read the Acts and seen how the early Christians observed the Sabbath?

Acts 13:[13] Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.

[14] But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
[15] And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
[16] Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.
[17] The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it.
[18] And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness.
[19] And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot.
[20] And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet.
[21] And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
[22] And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
[23] Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
[24] When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
[25] And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
[26] Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
[27] For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
[28] And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
[29] And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
[30] But God raised him from the dead:
[31] And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
[32] And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
[34] And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
[35] Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
[36] For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
[37] But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
[38] Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
[39] And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
[40] Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
[41] Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
[42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
[44] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
[45] But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
[46] Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Does one read what he quoted?

Bondage to the law of Moses Sabbath day is done away with in Christ

Does one believe God rescued the Israelites from the bondage in Egypt only to give them another bondage instead of life?

Galatians 5:[4] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Does anyone say he's justified by the law?

Hebrews 4:[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.[4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest

.

The Hebrew writer used the nation of Israel as an example. Joshua gave them rest did not mean the law was done away. They were to keep it even after the promised land.

I don't observe days or times anymore

Did you ever?

Galatians 4:[10] Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Paul spoke to Galatians who once worshipped other gods.

The Sabbath day was a shadow of things to come

Colossians 2:[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Colossians 2:[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Paul spoke to Colossians who once worshipped idols who never observed the Law so when they started to do so, he said don't let anyone judge.

 

[chubbena]

One God - three person....How it happens? What is the absolute truth about that? NO ONE KNOWS...ONLY GOD KNOWS...but I trust God when He call Jesus as God and Jesus when He say "Father and I is one" and when He said "I will leave you helper" and "I will be with you until the last age".

ALL throughout the scripture, it is clear the purpose of each one, One God in three different manifestation. If you are going to ask me How is this possible and Why? My answer is I DONT KNOW. I will ask God when I go to heaven. hehe

The only one who wanted to go to heaven didn't end up very well cf Isaiah 14:12-15
The saved will go to live in the new Jerusalem in the new heaven and new earth cf Revelation 21.
Now if no one knows the absolute truth about God then let's not confine Him in man made theologies...and let's not speak in theological gibberish but in plain English. God is not a person, He is a Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person, He is a Spirit.
The Son was the Word of God, not a person, and the Word became flesh. That's what the scripture says.

 

[chubbena]

I think they still had the authority... maybe not always the power... they managed to stone Stephen, I think... they were following the law about killing those who teach other gods... they thought... so the law of love makes some changes to moses here and there

That's true...but then they didn't follow the Law when they stoned Stephen for he didn't do anything against the Law, did he?
I don't know where you get the law of love from but if it's from the Messiah who said Love the Lord with all your heart and love your neighbor, He was answering the question "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?" Yes, He was answering which is the greatest commandment "in the law".

 

[chubbena]

Tent I hope you can see that the law was not given in love. The law was given to expose, and Identified sin. That means that the law condemns you and provides no reconciliation. Look, in the wilderness they had grace, The Holy Spirit was with them in the form of a cloud by a day and a pillar of fire by night and when He moved they moved. They feed every morning and it lasted all day. But, because of their rebellion, God gave them the law and some 3,000 people died on that day.

When Peter preached the Gospel on the day of Pentecost some 3,000 got saved and filled with the Spirit. The law is not your friend it is your condemner.

And it's not the flaw of the law, it's the flaw of fallen man.
The law is a friend of those who abide by the law and a condemner of those who breaks it - same in the "OT" nation of Israel, same in the Roman Empire, same in USA, same in Canada, same in.....anywhere which has a law.

 

[RickyZ]

My point REFERRED TO those who INSIST that "Everyone should KEEP the Sabbath or you are practicing the Antichrist's religion." And if you doubt some actually teach that, I have certainly ran into many of them over the years. So, I was pointing out that even they themselves are not KEEPING THE SABBATH, like the Jews did.

I also pointed out that the average January temperature (except for the higher elevations in the Galilean hills), has average temperatures range in the 50-60F (10-15C) in most places, but in the 40's (5C) in Jerusalem. Warm enough to insure you are not going to freeze, nor are your water pipes, while KEEPING THE SABBATH, including not kindling a fire. THAT FACT, supports the fact that GOD really meant it when HE said KEEPING THE SABBATH was a sign between HIM and the children OF ISRAEL.

As far as the so called "dirty job" of kindling a fire; I take it YOU personally did not grow up with a wood burner of any kind. ALSO for your information, CLEANING out the Chimney is a semi-annual chore at the most, NOT A DAILY CHORE. Kindling a fire, amounted to using a sharp hatchet, sitting one already cut log on another, holding the top one with one hand while you chipped splinters off the top one, until you had enough to kindle the glowing coals into a fire again. Yes, you may have to shovel some of the excess asses into a bucket, while you pull with the shovel, the glowing coals into a pile again. Then you place your wood splinters (kindling) on top the pile of glowing coals, and in a short time they would burst into flames. You then put two or three normal sized split logs on the kindling fire, and carried the bucket of asses out and dumped them where you would not catch the grass on fire, should there remain a hot ember. DIRTY JOB? That would be stretching it a very long ways. If it hadn't of been for the spiders, that I always saw on the logs in the wood pile, I wouldn't have considered it a dirty enough job to bother washing my hands.

One other factor that makes your theory of no dirty work, FAR FETCHED, is the reality that Jews going to the Temple to worship, ALWAYS took a ceremonial bath in the mikvahs (bath tubs) just outside the Temple, EVERY TIME JUST BEFORE THEY ENTERED THE TEMPLE.

Curious - that sounds like a very legalistic argument against legalism.

Also sounds like I irritated you - not very 'grace' like on your part but I apologize for your taking offense.

I'll say to you what I say to many - When you find something in the Bible that you don't think applies to you, rip that page out. After a year, look at all them pages and see just how much of God's ETERNAL WORD you have dismissed as being irrelevant.

Too often these things are the result of tunnel vision. Try to take in the big picture. You'll get a much broader understanding that way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If one wants to learn from me then believe every word coming from His mouth. Then one would know how disobedient he is and might come to Christ for mercy. Until then.
Please try something new as no Sabbath keeper has claim being perfect. Name one if you know one.

I know of one. His name is Christ. No one else. Not Paul, "Oh What a wretched man I AM" Not John, "If we say WE HAVE NO SIN, we decieve ourselves and there is no truth in us" Not Peter. "Chastened openly by Paul for outward sin against the gentiles and God"

not sure what the first post of your post means. so I will ask you to restate so I do not misunderstand you.

Didn't you just show how adequate the law is to show sinfulness? Does your version of law of love actually keep you from offending? If so, good for you.

I don't get you. If you understand your sin and your need for Christ, the law has done its job, what more need of it do you have? Unless you have not come to Christ.

when I follow the law of love, yes, "seek the things of the spirit, and you will NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh". Unfortunately, like paul and many others. My flesh gets in the way, so no I am not sinless. do I need the law to tell me that? No. I already know the law. and have agreed with it that I am A sinner. So why do I need to learn what I already know??

So you see the law through the Holy Spirit has convicted you and has made you to come to Christ. That's good.

yes, 40 years ago..

It's for those who go back to the vomit from time to time. If you don't, you are, as you say, better than Paul. Good for you.

a dog goes back to his vomit because he has not been made a new creature. it is all he knows.l it is his nature, he may play tricks for awhile. but he is still a dog. so yes, a Dog needs the law. he has not yet come to christ and been born again, and given a NEW NATURE.

It's false accusing and you have not been able to name one. That's one sin you should come out of.

go look in the mirror. you will see one. it is not a false accusation, it is a fact according to the word of God. if we are under grace, we are no longer under law. the law and grace can not mix. one saves based on the mercy of God, one curses based on the letter and condemnation of the law.

That's how you interpret, not how Paul said it.

well Paul and James would disagree with you.

Did the Messiah explain what He said in the past clearly and did you just quote that? Again good for you by following your version of law of love you are able to not sin.
Yet again it's false accusation. When are you going to realize that?

when are you going to realise you will never be a morally good person and able to be mature in Christ by following the law of moses? It does not have the ability to do this. That is why Jesus had to expound on the law in his teachings, because the law was only partially able to show us how to do good. It was not complete. Then again, As Paul says so many times, it was never given for that reason in the first place. When are you going to realise this?

Well, someone is wrong here - and I don't think it was Moses, Joshua or the Messiah.
Moses said: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
Joshua said: Be very careful to keep the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the Lord gave you: to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, to keep his commands, to hold fast to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
The Messiah said: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.This is the first and greatest commandment" when He was asked what the greatest commandment is in the law.

yep, and it was a burden no one could keep. Because it could not make them righteous. or do good. Because as Jesus said, it was not complete.

The law says do not commit adultry, So one could easily think if he never sleeps with another woman, He is obeying th elaw and a righteous being. Yet Jesus said if you look on a woman with lust, you have sinned.

So a man could never commit the physical act. Continue to lust in his head, and think he was completely right with God according to the law of moses. How good is that? Why do you think the jews thought they were so righteous? Accordin gto th emosaic law. many of them were. Jesus acknowledged this. Yet he said even they were totally sinfull, and God was far from their hearts. Why? because the law was not able to make them good moral people. all it could do is show then in part how they could not live up to Gods righteousness.

think of the books "for dummy's".. I call the law. Gods law for Dummy's, because we can not even keep the ten he gave us, He did not have to give us every command or every act which is sin, whether as an outward act or inward, all he had to do was give us ten. and we could not even keep them.

When you realise this, you will realise just how utterly sinfull you are. Until then, I guess you can think you are righteous, because you think you obey ten commands and that is all you need to do.

We see how impotent man is.

When we see outside the law. and look to the law of love, we sow how more impotent man is, More than we thought, even ourselves. the law just give us a glimpse of how impotent we are.

The law is not the covenant itself but rather the content of it. I believe many have explained this before but I guess you were busy typing and probably missed those.

Oh is this so?

The law was given as a schoomaster.

it was given to keep us in faith until Christ came

it was given to condemn us, so we could see our need for Christ

it was given to show us why we need Christ, And what Christ would do to redeem us from the curse of the law.

I was not to busy typing. I was busy studying the word. and it does not say what you claim.

Well if one understands what the Messiah said when tempted by Satan one would distinguish between the two. He said "man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God".
Have you obeyed your version of the law of love? Yes we should ask each other more often because as it's written "be holy, for I am holy".

My version? Where do you get this. the law of love is loving others. nothing more nothing less. it is NOT LOVING SELF. ALL sin comes from love for self (carnality) if you focus on loving others, and let God take care of your needs, you will not sin. The problem is, We do not do this 24/7,

I do not need the mosaic law to tell me this, I know it.

I don't see the "is no longer needed" part.
Isaiah said "The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever."
The Messiah said "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."
Peter said "the word of the Lord endures forever" and he was quoting Isaiah 40:8.

where is the law in this? And where have I deny'd this?

 

[chubbena]

I know of one. His name is Christ. No one else. Not Paul, "Oh What a wretched man I AM" Not John, "If we say WE HAVE NO SIN, we decieve ourselves and there is no truth in us" Not Peter. "Chastened openly by Paul for outward sin against the gentiles and God"

Are you talking about the Word of God who came in the flesh? Do you believe in Him? Do you believe everything He says? Do you obey His words?

not sure what the first post of your post means. so I will ask you to restate so I do not misunderstand you.

You kept asking if Sabbath keepers are perfect. It gets really old. Thus I asked you to try something new.

I don't get you. If you understand your sin and your need for Christ, the law has done its job, what more need of it do you have? Unless you have not come to Christ.

Paul said the law is holy, the commandments are holy, righteous and good. He apparently didn't throw it away.

when I follow the law of love, yes, "seek the things of the spirit, and you will NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh". Unfortunately, like paul and many others. My flesh gets in the way, so no I am not sinless. do I need the law to tell me that? No. I already know the law. and have agreed with it that I am A sinner. So why do I need to learn what I already know??

Good that you said you've learnt. So you agree it's kept in your mind and is not erased from your memory.

yes, 40 years ago..

But from time to time your flesh gets in the way and you know it because the law is in your mind, isn't it?

a dog goes back to his vomit because he has not been made a new creature. it is all he knows.l it is his nature, he may play tricks for awhile. but he is still a dog. so yes, a Dog needs the law. he has not yet come to christ and been born again, and given a NEW NATURE.

But if that new creature you speak of from time to time has his flesh gets in the way he's not exactly a new creature isn't he?

go look in the mirror. you will see one.

I can tell that it's your flesh gets in the way talking.

it is not a false accusation, it is a fact according to the word of God. if we are under grace, we are no longer under law. the law and grace can not mix. one saves based on the mercy of God, one curses based on the letter and condemnation of the law.

It's according to your understanding of the word of God, not necessarily according to the word of God. The reason why Christians come together and discuss especially on forums like this.

well Paul and James would disagree with you.

It's how you understand them which is not necessarily correct. May be starting a new thread on verses you think you understand correctly would help.

when are you going to realise you will never be a morally good person and able to be mature in Christ by following the law of moses? It does not have the ability to do this. That is why Jesus had to expound on the law in his teachings, because the law was only partially able to show us how to do good. It was not complete. Then again, As Paul says so many times, it was never given for that reason in the first place. When are you going to realise this?

Probably when you realize your understanding is incomplete?

yep, and it was a burden no one could keep. Because it could not make them righteous. or do good. Because as Jesus said, it was not complete.

Are you referring to what the Messiah said, when He answered the question of what the greatest commandment is, that the greatest is to love the Lord with all your heart and the second is to love your neighbor? Do you consider a burden?

The law says do not commit adultry, So one could easily think if he never sleeps with another woman, He is obeying th elaw and a righteous being. Yet Jesus said if you look on a woman with lust, you have sinned.

So a man could never commit the physical act. Continue to lust in his head, and think he was completely right with God according to the law of moses. How good is that? Why do you think the jews thought they were so righteous? Accordin gto th emosaic law. many of them were. Jesus acknowledged this. Yet he said even they were totally sinfull, and God was far from their hearts. Why? because the law was not able to make them good moral people. all it could do is show then in part how they could not live up to Gods righteousness.

think of the books "for dummy's".. I call the law. Gods law for Dummy's, because we can not even keep the ten he gave us, He did not have to give us every command or every act which is sin, whether as an outward act or inward, all he had to do was give us ten. and we could not even keep them.

When you realise this, you will realise just how utterly sinfull you are. Until then, I guess you can think you are righteous, because you think you obey ten commands and that is all you need to do.

Didn't the Messiah say all the laws hanged on the two?

When we see outside the law. and look to the law of love, we sow how more impotent man is, More than we thought, even ourselves. the law just give us a glimpse of how impotent we are.

That's when the law is followed without the understanding that to obey is to love the Lord.

Oh is this so?

You may refer to Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36 but I think you've already known.

The law was given as a schoomaster.

it was given to keep us in faith until Christ came

it was given to condemn us, so we could see our need for Christ

it was given to show us why we need Christ, And what Christ would do to redeem us from the curse of the law.

You've got that right. He came to redeem us from the curse of the law but the law is not a curse, it becomes a curse when one disobeys. God said His commandments are not idle words, they are life.

I was not to busy typing. I was busy studying the word. and it does not say what you claim.

May be starting a thread saying the law is the covenant itself would allow further discussion.

My version? Where do you get this. the law of love is loving others. nothing more nothing less. it is NOT LOVING SELF.

ALL sin comes from love for self (carnality) if you focus on loving others, and let God take care of your needs, you will not sin. The problem is, We do not do this 24/7,

I do not need the mosaic law to tell me this, I know it.




where is the law in this? And where have I deny'd this?

Reading the two greatest commandments through Moses, through Joshua and through the Messiah would help one understands better.

 

[newbirth]

Hello newbirth
I was wondering if the people who hadn't come to the end of their flesh(I mean they haven't been guided to CHRIST yet) thinking by at least trying to keep the ten that GOD accepts them because they are at least trying,

I think they are really just mixing law and grace....I might be wrong ,but that's what I am thinking.

There is only one way to God ...Jesus Christ ... anything else is futile according to scripture. As servants of God when we do our duty as it ought to be done, the light of God will shine on men.

 

[VCO]

I will believe God's word not man's doctrine...
If a man is living soul how can he be body and soul ...body + breath of life = living soul
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


1 Corinthians 15:44-49

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]44 [/SUP]It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (JESUS CHRIST) was made a quickening spirit.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual (YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN), but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual (WHEN BORN AGAIN, EVERY TRUE BELIEVER IS BAPTIZED INTO THAT SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST, OF WHICH HE IS HEAD.).
[SUP]47 [/SUP]The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (After we are borne again, having our human spirit brought to eternal life by the Holy Spirit HIMSELF, we are a picture of how the THREE can be ONE GOD.).

I inserted the blue comments in the verses above, to show you where you are missing the full meaning of phrases in this context. Let me now show you the supporting verses for those comments in blue. As I have told you before, I can support everything I believe with Scripture.

First of all the proof that the Last Adam is JESUS CHRIST, is in verse 47 above.

John 3:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

1 Corinthians 12:12-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Ephesians 5:23 (NIV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] So the body is not one part but many.

Colossians 2:12-13 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

John 5:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24[/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

John 6:47 (ESV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.



NOW maybe you are ready the HEAR the truth about born again Christians truly being triune in nature, even though we are not deity as HE IS:

Matthew 28:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name (NOTICE it is singular, not plural ) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image ( NOTICE it is singular, not plural ) , according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Zechariah 12:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,

 

[newbirth]

I inserted the blue comments in the verses above, to show you where you are missing the full meaning of phrases in this context. Let me now show you the supporting verses for those comments in blue. As I have told you before, I can support everything I believe with Scripture.

First of all the proof that the Last Adam is JESUS CHRIST, is in verse 47 above.

John 3:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

1 Corinthians 12:12-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Ephesians 5:23 (NIV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] So the body is not one part but many.

Colossians 2:12-13 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

John 5:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24[/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

John 6:47 (ESV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.



NOW maybe you are ready the HEAR the truth about born again Christians truly being triune in nature, even though we are not deity as HE IS:

Matthew 28:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name (NOTICE it is singular, not plural ) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image ( NOTICE it is singular, not plural ) , according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Zechariah 12:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,

You have shown what you believe based on what you have been taught ....we can cut the chase by just showing one scripture where the holy spirit is worshipped.