Is justification by faith alone?

[oldthennew]

Is every single person that ever lived going to be saved by grace?

NO!
there are some that will NOT repent, no matter what is presented to them.
so, they are better off cast into the 'lake of fire' and consumed.

but, the majority, when satan is removed, will be able to see The Light
and the obvious Truth and The Way.

 

[crossnote]

Salvation is a free gift that comes with conditions. If you accept the free gift then you must accept the conditions the Gift Giver put upon it. Rejecting the attached conditions is rejecting the gift.

Salvation is a Person, He saves unconditionally those who receive Him by faith.

 

[crossnote]

When Paul said justified by faith apart from works, the type of works Paul is talking about are works of merit, NOT obedient works.

All works are not the same, the bible speaks of different types of works and Paul was not excluding ALL TYPES of works, but works of merit. IF Paul was excluding ALL TYPES of works then he is contradicting himself in Rom 4:5 and Romans chapter 6 for in these context Paul says obedient works are necessary to being saved.

The 'obedient works' you talk about are a result of the inworking Holy Spirit, a.k.a. fruit, and in no wise have bearing on our initial salvation/justification/regeneration.

 

[SeaBass]

lol.

Here is the difference between you and me.

1 You - Earn your salvation by your many deeds, yet still can be lost (not a child of God, whose fathers loves him anyway)

2. Me, Truly repented. Agree with God that I can not save myself. I am not worthy of salvation, I will NEVER be worthy of salvation no matter how hard I try. Adopted by God. Now his son. Work hard to please him out of gratitude for what he has given me. My works glorify God. Because they are done by his power which he GAVE ME.

have fun with all your works.. Don't get to upset if people call you a pharisee. they thought the same way you did.

1) I have never said salvation is earned. You keep giving this straw-man for you do not/refuse to understand free gifts come with conditions.

2) repentance is a work, a condition upon the free gift that does not earn the gift but a necessary part of the gift.
Since man has a role in his own salvation in meeting the conditions that are attached to the free gift, then in that sense man saves himself (Acts 2:40; 1 Tim 4:16; Phil 2:12) by meeting those conditions.

3) I do not mind those that want to call me a "Pharisee" for I know they do it out of ignorance of the bible and need to be taught correctly. The Pharisees were condemned time and again for NOT obeying God's will. Not doing God's will correlates with faith only.

 

[SeaBass]

romans 4 is as much word. as is eph 2: 8-9, romans 3: 24, 28, romans 5: 1, 9, rom 8: 30. 1 cor 6: 11, titus 3: 5-7, all of which say justification/salvation is a gift, apart from works.

sorry a few verses in james taken out of context do not overturn these many (I only posted a few) passages which say the opposite.

finally.

you do not even know what a gift is. If a gift is conditional, it is NOT A GIFT. so i do not have to prove to you where it says that (even though the term grace means unearned) the word itself proves it.

i will say one thing, I pray you do not give your loved ones gifts. or they at least know your trying to pay them off for a work to earn it, and if they do not do those works, you will take that gift back. Your a deciever!

Not a single one of those verses exclude works of obedience. They exclude works of merit or works of the OT law but not a single one excludes a faithful obedience to God.

 

[SeaBass]

it is not an assumption, it is a fact.

A gift is unconditional.

A reward is conditional

Eternal life, Salvation, And Justification (all words which are interconnected) are gifts. NOT REWARDS.

End of story.

Its nothing more than your assumption.

A biblical example used many times is Naaman. God owed Naaman nothing but by God's grace God gave Naaman a chance to cleansed of his disease by dipping in the river 7 times. This free gift of cleansing would NEVER happened if Naaman never obeyed by doing the work of dipping. So the free gift of cleansing was CONDITIONAL upon Naaman's work of dipping.

According to your man-made theology, since Naaman did the work of dipping he EARNED his cleansing and therefore grace had NOTHING to do with it.

 

[SeaBass]

lol

You do not even get the context.

Your continued attempt to do as the jews and work to earn salvation PROVES how much labor one must do to find that narrow gate that leads to eternal life.

Jesus said.

Eat this food, you will never hunger, never thirst, Live forever, Never die, have eternal life, be risen by him on the last day.

Unlike the manna in the dessert, which they had to eat avery day. This food ENDURES FOREVER. (meaning you eat it once and its saving power NEVER FADES AWAY)

this passage proves

1. One can not work to enter
2. Once someone is saved by eating the food GOD GAVE US, we are saved forever, nothing can take that salvation away.

This whole passage DESTROYS your works based Gospel, and lake of faith in God..

Next!!!!

You continue to use your old straw man that if one does works he is automatically trying to earn salvation.

Jesus said to LABOUR for the meat that endures unto everlasting life. You are saying just the exact opposite of what Jesus said. Jesus went on to say "everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you"

Jesus GIVES everlasting life so it is free, yet He also said to labour for this free gift He gives. Your refusal to understand that free gifts come with conditions will make this difficult for you to ever understand.


1) one strives to enter the strait gate that leads to life, Lk 13:24
2) the free gift is conditional and if one quits meeting the conditions (quits striving) he forfeits the free gift.

 

[SeaBass]

NO!
there are some that will NOT repent, no matter what is presented to them.
so, they are better off cast into the 'lake of fire' and consumed.

but, the majority, when satan is removed, will be able to see The Light
and the obvious Truth and The Way.

So receiving God's free gift of grace is CONDITIONAL upon me repenting.

So eternally-gratefull is wrong in his assumption that free gifts are unconditional.

 

[SeaBass]

Salvation is a Person, He saves unconditionally those who receive Him by faith.

When did salvation quit being a gift of God?

 

[SeaBass]

The 'obedient works' you talk about are a result of the inworking Holy Spirit, a.k.a. fruit, and in no wise have bearing on our initial salvation/justification/regeneration.

One chooses of his own will to do those obedient works or not. Believing is commanded to man and the imperative implies man's ability and responsibility to obey that command.

If the only way I could obey God was if the HS first "regenerated" me, then whose fault is my disobedience? The HS's for failing to "regenerate" me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1) I have never said salvation is earned. You keep giving this straw-man for you do not/refuse to understand free gifts come with conditions.

Every post you make you claim salvation is earned.

Saying it is conditional, is saying it must be earned by the conditions you are required to keep.

You need to study more my friend, Your knowledge of the meaning of sinple words like conditional, Gift, Grace etc is seriously lacking.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not a single one of those verses exclude works of obedience. They exclude works of merit or works of the OT law but not a single one excludes a faithful obedience to God.

every one of those passages exclude works.

Do not try to puff yourself and think you have it figure out by saying he only meant works of the law. Does not work in most all of those passages, as the law was not even mentioned.

Nice try though.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its nothing more than your assumption.

A biblical example used many times is Naaman. God owed Naaman nothing but by God's grace God gave Naaman a chance to cleansed of his disease by dipping in the river 7 times. This free gift of cleansing would NEVER happened if Naaman never obeyed by doing the work of dipping. So the free gift of cleansing was CONDITIONAL upon Naaman's work of dipping.

According to your man-made theology, since Naaman did the work of dipping he EARNED his cleansing and therefore grace had NOTHING to do with it.

Yeah your so smart.

Abraham was justified before he did one work. He believed God and it was acounted to him for righteousness (justification)

But you want to twist James and say he had to work to EARN IT.

Nice try.

Next.

 

[crossnote]

One chooses of his own will to do those obedient works or not. Believing is commanded to man and the imperative implies man's ability and responsibility to obey that command.

If the only way I could obey God was if the HS first "regenerated" me, then whose fault is my disobedience? The HS's for failing to "regenerate" me.

That would be your problem now wouldn't it?...

Romans 8:7-9 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You continue to use your old straw man that if one does works he is automatically trying to earn salvation.

rom 4: [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

if you work. God said you are not saved by grace, but are earning a debt (wage)

Those are not my words, they are Gods. So I guess God likes strawmen..

Paul agrees, if it is GRACE it is not works, otherwise, GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.

Grace and works do not mix, Not in jesus day, Not in our day. Nice try though.

Jesus said to LABOUR for the meat that endures unto everlasting life. You are saying just the exact opposite of what Jesus said. Jesus went on to say "everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you"

And you prove how hard it is, and how much labor it takes, You refuse to allow God to give you the meat he came to give you. You want to first do all these works to earn that meat. you prove how hard it is to completely let go of self. and just say yes jesus, i will take it.

Keep talking dude, you keep proving me right.

Jesus GIVES everlasting life so it is free, yet He also said to labour for this free gift He gives. Your refusal to understand that free gifts come with conditions will make this difficult for you to ever understand.


1) one strives to enter the strait gate that leads to life, Lk 13:24
2) the free gift is conditional and if one quits meeting the conditions (quits striving) he forfeits the free gift.

dude,

if it is FREE, IT CAN NOT BE EARNED.

what part of free do you not get?

You do not EARN a free gift by PAYING FOR IT with YOUR OWN WAGES (WORK)

 

[newbirth]

Justification is not by any faith

certainly not by cathlic faith
or brahma faith
or by faith in your technolgy

Justification comes only by Jesus blood which forgives your past sins
IF YOU REPENT and CONSECRATE YOURSELF

Justification is conditional

all yourpast sins are forgiven

and ALL FUTURE LIFE SINS ARE PREVENTED

scripture please!!!

so you are sanctified
future sins prevented, that is the covenant the New covenant

All past forgiven forgotten and all future sins prevented by prayer and wathing unto prayer By grace

that is the gospel
the cheap Gospel give you only the first half
and without the second half you will perish.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in YOUR FLESH WITH POWER TO KEEP YOU FROM SNNING is of God:

the rest are false gospels invented by master hypnotist who knows you like the american way...easy wide salvation

fat people want a pill not self control

its the american way

cheap grace cheap gospel and destruction

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

[h=3]James 2:23-25[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

 

[SeaBass]

rom 4: [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

if you work. God said you are not saved by grace, but are earning a debt (wage)

Those are not my words, they are Gods. So I guess God likes strawmen..

Paul agrees, if it is GRACE it is not works, otherwise, GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.

Grace and works do not mix, Not in jesus day, Not in our day. Nice try though.

And the works Paul was speaking about where one could boast are works of merit. If one could work and merit his salvation he would have something to boast about.

Abraham was not one that tried to merit salvation instead Abraham had an obedient faith. An obedient faith is nothing for Abraham to boast about for he sinned. Even though one has an obedient faith, he still sins and is an unprofitable servant in need of grace, Luke 17:10.

[/FONT][/COLOR]And you prove how hard it is, and how much labor it takes, You refuse to allow God to give you the meat he came to give you. You want to first do all these works to earn that meat. you prove how hard it is to completely let go of self. and just say yes jesus, i will take it.

Keep talking dude, you keep proving me right.

Jesus >>>>>>>>>>>>> LABOUR for the meat that endures unto everlasting life which Jesus gives
eternall-gratfull >>>>>>DO NOT labour else you be trying to earn your salvation

Contrasts as the one above really stand out.

dude,

if it is FREE, IT CAN NOT BE EARNED.

what part of free do you not get?

You do not EARN a free gift by PAYING FOR IT with YOUR OWN WAGES (WORK)

I have NEVER said salvation can be earned. YOU are the one that keeps bringing up that straw man.

You still refuse to acknowledge free gifts can come with conditions and meeting those condition do not in anyway earn the free gift ALREADY offered.

 

[SeaBass]

That would be your problem now wouldn't it?...

Romans 8:7-9 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

No, it would be God's problem for going against His own nature. God acting in an unloving, unjust, unmerciful way making the bible and Himself out to be liars. Eze 33:11

 

[crossnote]

That would be your problem now wouldn't it?...

Romans 8:7-9 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

No, it would be God's problem for going against His own nature. God acting in an unloving, unjust, unmerciful way making the bible and Himself out to be liars. Eze 33:11

The passage shows from his 'own free will' the natural man cannot please God. Sounds like regeneration is necessary.

 

[SeaBass]

The passage shows from his 'own free will' the natural man cannot please God. Sounds like regeneration is necessary.

No verse says man is unable to please God. Man chooses of his own will to do well or not do well, Gen 4:7


No, it would be God's problem for going against His own nature. God acting in an unloving, unjust, unmerciful way making the bible and Himself out to be liars. Eze 33:11

When God by His grace made salvation available to man, God made certain promises to men.
1) save those that obey, Heb 5:9
2) have vengeance upon those that obey not 2 Thess 1:8
3) God cannot lie