It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[homwardbound]

Re: Eternal Security & Incorruptible Seed 1 Peter 1

So you are either incapable of sin or you can sin and its of no consequence?

Thou shalt call His name YHWH salvation,
for He shall save His people from their sins.
[/QUOTE]

In the Spirit following and listening to the hidden new man of ones heart can't sin, not possible
But just walk in flesh and see my death again, that by Christ is dead if I agree to be co-crucified with Christ you think?

[h=3]Romans 7:7-25[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me [SUP]2 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. [SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[homwardbound]

Heart belief is more than intellectual assent. Human will and intellect cannot place faith into the heart.

Love it when truth kills human intellect

 

[homwardbound]

I thought it originated in the 21st century. I stand corrected.

Might be that it originates in origin in ecah mind that individually interprets according to what I think I need, and if I do not get it, i either walk away or repent to Father with a godly sorrow over the worldly one i had to gain acceptance from others in the Church I was attending and get rewarded as Jesus talked about, us as people of the flesh do, warning us to not do mouyr good deeds publicly as the heathen do, you think?

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Both Prophet Paul & Prophet Peter Taught Eternal Security

On one hand you say "more group nonsense" but then you immediately speak of the GROUP Christian that have been begotten.

Of course individuals make up the group but the individual outside the group is lost. It is the group that is kept by God, not the individual outside the group. So if a individual becomes unfaithful and falls away from the 'kept' group, then that individual is no longer kept by God being outside the group.

So this leaves the ? were they a part of the group before leaving, was Judas? yet fit right into the plan of God did he not. So can we glory in all things seeing and realizing
[h=3]Romans 8:28[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

And if one walks away, think God will not leave the others and go and find this one?
The Mercy of God, wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to me anyway

 

[homwardbound]

Professional theologians are not the only ones with a tendency to behave as if God only exists in ways that they can define and categorize (and control). In reality, God can move in mysterious ways that we can't always define and categorize (and control). The Bible tells us what we need to know about God from the Bible. Observation of nature, reason, logic and perhaps intuition should add to our knowledge. Human understanding will never have God all figured out.

Plain and simple the flesh that I was originally born in can't Fathom
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:4-7[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [SUP]5 [/SUP]doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [SUP]6 [/SUP]rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [SUP]7 [/SUP]beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

That type of love is God's, and by the resurrected Christ wants to impute this in us, if we will beleive God in all.
So did Christ at his death take away all the unbelief (sin) of this world for his Father to not see it in us anymore and get angry at us, and by Faith in it is finished, we see the new life of this type of love that we all know we can't do perfectly as God has done for us by Son

[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Let me show you the folly of your OSS, ES doctrine in this scripture...unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away,(the inheritance is incorruptible and reserved in heaven not you) reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith (it is for those who are guarded by the power of God through faith, one has to be continually faithful and we know faith without works is dead)unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (that salvation will be revealed in the last time,it has not been revealed to you yet that is why it is called HOPE).

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Just love you newbirth, seeing you on your way to see all truth and be purged, to know what Atwood is so vehemently trying to say and the words so frustration, as yours do and mine can and have done as well, which is bottom line our unredeemed flesh that gets in the way, true or false Brother?

Yes when we are first born, babies, when we are serious about serving God, we do work hard to enter the rest God has for us, and many do not always find it, and those that did, like Martin Luther King, were murdered, to stop him, from others to set others free in giving god the credit for it only
Evil, hates truth to be exposed to where one sees it is all God and none of me, you or anyone else, we are nothing more that vessels to be used by God when God sees fit, That is what Faith (trust) is
Kind of like a water glass is our vessel to us when we want a drink of water. We go to the cabinet and grab hold and fill it up right?
pray you see this to nothing more than to be God's water glass, just as they had to wait for the day of Pentecost?
Who spoke, them or god through them, by Faith?

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security & Incorruptible Seed 1 Peter 1

Thou shalt call His name YHWH salvation,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

In the Spirit following and listening to the hidden new man of ones heart can't sin, not possible
But just walk in flesh and see my death again, that by Christ is dead if I agree to be co-crucified with Christ you think?

Romans 7:7-25

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. [SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I take it that Romans 8:1 goes on, referring to Rom 7 and observing:

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus."

The Christian is not condemned to the carnal state defeat in Rom 7. Therefore (because Jesus Christ our Lord makes a way of deliverance) there is no condemnation to the carnal state. And Rom 8 gives the way of victory by the Holy Spirit.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

I am not impressed with your response and the deviation from the original scripture quoted...you seem to forget there is more in that chapter...you are openly rejecting the teaching of God these words need no explaining....
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

newbirth, please see this borther and Atwood as well
You both I see are drawn in by your old natures of flesh, you both post truth, and yet are not rightly dividing it, maybe, yuo both decide and not fight, maybe take the timje for each to be heard, and trust God to separate the truth over any errors received, maybe you all decide
\It seems you both are playing I am right and you are wrong, and as I see it, maybe you both will is of flesh

One believes that are eternally saved okay, thanks to God
other does not and needs to watch their P's and Q's, okay
Romans 14 read it please. and tell me this, if one is more mature that the other and treating the other as if not, who is wrong?
Yep, both, you think?

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Free At Last. Thank God Almighty I'm Free At Last

Free at Last,
Free at last,
Thank God Almighty I'm free at last.

Do you know that song? I think a spiritual:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0FWliVoLOg

A very moving song.

If the Son shall make you free,
You shall be free indeed.

Now how could that be true if somehow you ended up in the Lake of Fire?
Free indeed implies eternal security.
OSS = once saved, Saved!
let's add
OFF = once free, free!

Atwood is your boasting good? Can it make you self-righteous and appear above others, a little pride, can that be getting in your way?
I do not know and so I know this if so, here is what Paul says about it.
[h=3]2 Corinthians 12:7-10[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

ATwood posted:
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
forenew >foreordained >called >justified >glorified. Rom 8. And since justification is by faith, we have to insert it in that chain somewhere before "justified."


How can it be that when a sinner who is vile (Romans 1-3) is by God's miracle made righteous & declared righteous (justification) that is not part of salvation? Such a person must go to Heaven. There is no way that a righteous person declared righteous would not go to Heaven. Who can condemn? It is God who justifies, God who declares righteous!


In this area, we deal not with possibilities but Bible facts. Men are saved through faith, and they are eternally secure. They trust the Savior, & He delivers His promise of eternal life.
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
"whosoever believes . . . eternal life."


You cannot backquote where I ever discarded faith, but argued for it posting many scriptures; same with eternal security. Also, I have not argued for eternal security off the doctrine of predestination, but presented scriptures for consideration for anyone who cares to ponder the matter. Persons can believe eternal security & justification by faith without thinking that God caused them to believe. We don't have to solve the problem of predestination to conclude eternal security.

My statement.the clear teaching that a believer can lose faith,
your response.....
As so often, dear Cassian you just say things. Where is your proof of that one?



You just go on ranting, not quoting the Bible & proving. Anyone who has been reading this thread can see that there are not just a few isolated verses, and that you speak falsehood.
And if Christ made all men righteous, then the Bible is false, for it presents quite a different picture of depravity. So you don't want a verse isolated? Try Romans 1-3:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.


For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful: who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; . . . .

But if our unrighteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who visiteth with wrath? (I speak after the manner of men.) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:

Sorry Atwood, but I know that God has saved us, and am humbled by this, I tell you again Brother you are shoving this down the throats of others as if this free gift is a commandment, which leaves a bad taste in the mouths of others and it brings out the war of the flesh, are you seeing this or are you knowing you are doing this?:

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

To Cassian's absurd claim that all men have been made righteous, parts of Rom 1-3 were posted by Atwood, including this:

filled with all unrighteousness,wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:

Yet Cassian goes on, making sweeping claims, but not quoting proof texts. I doubt I will bother to respond to much of it, as he has to post his own verses & prove his case. Him saying things is no proof. While scripture directly asserts the unrighteousness of men, Cassian refers to subjects which he thinks negate men being unrighteous & conversely imply (if not actually state) that men are righteous. However, there are no such implicaitons.

"You have just categorically denied the Incarnation and the work of Christ through His Incarnation and resurrection." "heaven, or hell for that matter. You just denied that they exist."

That is libel; if it were spoken, it would be slander. Anyone who wants to, can check my posts that I never denied any orthodox Christology or the existence of heaven & hell. Cassian has just discredited everything he says. Cassian goes on suggesting I haven't studied. If I listed my degrees, people would probably accuse me of bragging. I have have made a comprehensive study of doctrine & theology.

He saved mankind from death,

.

Absurd. Let me take you to some cemeteries.

You should read I Cor 15:12-22 which is an Incarnational context passage. It is Christ reversing the fall for all men, from death to life. From mortal to immortality, which is why later vs 53 it states Christ will raise all men at the end of time and all men will be immortal and incorruptible.

At this point, Cassian seems to be advocating universalism, which is an extreme form of eternal security! Universalism is heresy, plain & simple.

This is why Paul in vs 20 makes the statement that a person should reconcile himself to God.

There is nothing about anyone reconciling himself there. The person is passive "be ye reconciled" in the process. "be ye reconciled" implies that men are not reconciled.

As usual, Cassian makes aggressive claims & personal attacks, but proves nothing.

desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor whereof they confidently affirm.

Losing your salvation is heresy.
Universalism is heresy.

Truth:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Romans 14 on the weak brother has to do with questionable practices, not basic truths. It can be loving neighbor as self to point out that one who claims that works saves fits into the scripture which tells us that salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast.

There are 2 issues on eternal security:
1) is the doctrine true,
2) is the doctrine essential to define a Christian?

In the case of the Trinity, the doctrine is
1) true, & also
2) essential to defining a Christian.

My claim is that eternal security is not only true, but essential to defining a Christian.

He who does not believe in eternal security, does not trust Christ as Savior, but considers Him only One who gives you a chance at salvation. Such a denier does not even mean the same thing by Savior and salvation that the Bible means by those terms.

Thus the indicted essential response to the gospel, is to
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
It is not, "Think of the Lord Jesus Christ as one who gives you a chance to be saved."

This is no case of a weak brother who feels guilty about eating pork chops.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Homeward says:
"as if this free gift is a commandment,"

This is a commandment:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved."

 

[Cassian]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

To Cassian's absurd claim that all men have been made righteous, parts of Rom 1-3 were posted by Atwood, including this:

filled with all unrighteousness,wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:

Yet Cassian goes on, making sweeping claims, but not quoting proof texts. I doubt I will bother to respond to much of it, as he has to post his own verses & prove his case. Him saying things is no proof. While scripture directly asserts the unrighteousness of men, Cassian refers to subjects which he thinks negate men being unrighteous & conversely imply (if not actually state) that men are righteous. However, there are no such implicaitons.



That is libel; if it were spoken, it would be slander. Anyone who wants to, can check my posts that I never denied any orthodox Christology or the existence of heaven & hell. Cassian has just discredited everything he says. Cassian goes on suggesting I haven't studied. If I listed my degrees, people would probably accuse me of bragging. I have have made a comprehensive study of doctrine & theology.

.

Absurd. Let me take you to some cemeteries.



At this point, Cassian seems to be advocating universalism, which is an extreme form of eternal security! Universalism is heresy, plain & simple.



There is nothing about anyone reconciling himself there. The person is passive "be ye reconciled" in the process. "be ye reconciled" implies that men are not reconciled.

As usual, Cassian makes aggressive claims & personal attacks, but proves nothing.

desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor whereof they confidently affirm.

Losing your salvation is heresy.
Universalism is heresy.

Truth:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus for He shall save His people from their sins.

So, instead of actually checking the validity of my statements, with the scriptural texts you, again blatantly and willfully deny the Incarnation and its salvific content.

You specifically stated that Christ did not save mankind from death. (you stated..."Absurd. Let me take you to some cemeteries.)

Which also means you do not believe in the Resurrection of the dead in the last day. If man is not raised, and will not see judgement, how can man go either to hell or heaven?

Your theology leaves man in the Adamic state of being condemned to death, dust to dust, Gen 3:19. You denied that Christ came to overcome death, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-17, II Tim 1:10, that life is the solution to death, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22, and I Cor 15:53. I assume you believe man will remain in the grave. But then according to I Cor 15:12-22, Christ is not risen either if the dead are not raised and if Christ is not risen our faith is in vain. You have a faith that is vain because you do not believe in a Christ that has overcome death.

How are you going to get to heaven in your theology? How could you even get to hell?

You can claim all the degrees you want but you do not understand scripture as it was given in the beginning. You hold to a lot of man made theories, most fall under Calvinism, including limited atonement which is a categorical denial of the Incarnation. How can Christ die a partial death, could you explain that one? Did He have a partial resurrection? Or is it that He was only a partial man?

The point, Atwood, you have been steeped, trained, degreed in Calvinism which is not scripture. This includes OSAS, ES, OSS or whatever it is you want to call it. You again need to redefine scriptural terms to make it fit your premise. You also need to obfuscate because you don't understand the terms to attempt to redirect them to other false teachings such as Universalism. Maybe you don't really understand that term either since nothing I stated even hints at it, only in your misdirection or obfuscation.


In your attempt to prove a false teaching, OSAS, you have also made other statements denying most of scripture and what it actually means. I suggest you study scripture outside of the Calvinistic paradigm, you might actually understand it.

 

[Atwood]

The Confidence of the Man Who Believes in Eternal Security

It is better to say that a man has confidence who believes in His Savior.
The Savior has promised "He shall save His people from their sins."

Thus such a one who has such profound confidence in the Savior can confidently affirm:

Mine eyes are ever toward YHWH;
For he will pluck my feet out of the net. - Ps 25

The promise is "he will."
There is no maybe about it.

Consider, is it important to trust the Lord Jesus for one's eternal security -- or is it an option, no biggee if one does not, as such a one is excused for being a "weak brother"?

But we are commanded, yes a command to obey:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

It is not to merely regard the Lord Jesus as One Who makes it possible to be saved, provided one does this or that. It is actually to trust in Him to save. Now if you aren't sure that you will make it, how can you claim to trust Him as Savior?

I don't know about you, but as for me
I am sure that he will pluck my feet out of the net

 

[Atwood]

You May Depend in Him; Ps 27; OSS

OSS = once saved, saved!
Christ is the Savior, not merely the "chance giver"

"The LORD is my light and my salvation;
Whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the strength of my life;
Of whom shall I be afraid?
When evil-doers came upon me to eat up my flesh,
Even mine adversaries and my foes, they stumbled and fell. "

The Christian has 3 big enemies, none of which are other human beings.
1) The World (wicked influences)
2) The Flesh (the traitor within, the Old Man, the flesh)
3) The Devil.

But since the LORD is our salvation (not our free will, not our human strength),
we need not fear that any of the 3 could prevent us attaining eternal life.

Though a host should encamp against me,
My heart shall not fear:
Though war should rise against me,
Even then will I be confident.
One thing have I asked of Jehovah, that will I seek after:
That I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the LORD,
And to inquire in his temple.

The Christian may rest in the confidence of Ps 23:
"I will dwell in the House of the LORD forever."

No enemy can dislodge us from our place prepared in the Father's House (John 14). Not even our traitor within, the flesh, can prevent God from fulfilling His promise and giving us victory over the flesh ultimately.


"For in the day of trouble he will keep me secretly in his pavilion:
In the covert of his tabernacle will he hide me;
He will lift me up upon a rock."

Sing it:

"Oh safe to the rock that is higher than I."

He has redeemed, & He will keep; trust Him & be not afraid.

Trust in the Lord, O troubled soul,
Rest in the arms of His care.

Come to Me & I will give you rest.

Those who come to Him, He will never cast out.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

To Cassian's absurd claim that all men have been made righteous, parts of Rom 1-3 were posted by Atwood, including this:

filled with all unrighteousness,wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:

Yet Cassian goes on, making sweeping claims, but not quoting proof texts. I doubt I will bother to respond to much of it, as he has to post his own verses & prove his case. Him saying things is no proof. While scripture directly asserts the unrighteousness of men, Cassian refers to subjects which he thinks negate men being unrighteous & conversely imply (if not actually state) that men are righteous. However, there are no such implicaitons.



That is libel; if it were spoken, it would be slander. Anyone who wants to, can check my posts that I never denied any orthodox Christology or the existence of heaven & hell. Cassian has just discredited everything he says. Cassian goes on suggesting I haven't studied. If I listed my degrees, people would probably accuse me of bragging. I have have made a comprehensive study of doctrine & theology.

.

Absurd. Let me take you to some cemeteries.



At this point, Cassian seems to be advocating universalism, which is an extreme form of eternal security! Universalism is heresy, plain & simple.



There is nothing about anyone reconciling himself there. The person is passive "be ye reconciled" in the process. "be ye reconciled" implies that men are not reconciled.

As usual, Cassian makes aggressive claims & personal attacks, but proves nothing.

desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor whereof they confidently affirm.

Losing your salvation is heresy.
Universalism is heresy.

Truth:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus for He shall save His people from their sins.

....There is nothing about anyone reconciling himself there. The person is passive "be ye reconciled" in the process. "be ye reconciled" implies that men are not reconciled.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

The question is were the Corinthians saved or unsaved? If they were saved it means they were in a fallen state and are being encouraged to be reconciled.
If they were unsaved people being evangelised then the same scripture can be applied... the thing is it seem like solid meat not milk to me....but I could be wrong.
The next chapter (6) however leans more toward the first option

 

[Atwood]

The Evidence for Eternal Security Is Overwhelming, Psalm 34

"I sought the LORD, and he answered me,
And delivered me from all my fears.
They looked unto him, and were radiant;
And their faces shall never be confounded."

Look & live.
Look to the Lord Jesus Christ in faith.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

....There is nothing about anyone reconciling himself there. The person is passive "be ye reconciled" in the process. "be ye reconciled" implies that men are not reconciled.

The question is were the Corinthians saved or unsaved? If they were saved it means they were in a fallen state and are being encouraged to be reconciled.
If they were unsaved people being evangelised then the same scripture can be applied... the thing is it seem like solid meat not milk to me....but I could be wrong.

Well NewB, it is good that while one affirms that God's word is basically clear (with some obtuse passages), yet we may err on the interpretation of a verse. I see the 2 Cor passage at that spot as a place where Paul is giving a sample of his message, and that the "you" refers to unsaved men to whom he preaches that they need to be reconciled, throughly changed so that the old things pass away and all becomes new.

Of course in Corinth there were associated with the church there, a number of unsaved persons. In the NT the church of Corinth was a particularly problematic church. There certainly is nothing in Corinthians indicating that saved persons got lost, though there is a particularly rigorous chastisement assigned to a fornicator in 1 Cor 6. 2 Cor has " brother goeth to law with brother," sinning Christians who were still brothers -- nothing about them "losing salvation."

BTW, as long as one believes "losing salvation," that shows that one does not believe in salvation, nor in the Savior. To such a one, the Gospel is Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. Somehow such a one must come to the realization that he needs to trust the Lord Jesus for His eternal destiny.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

So, instead of actually checking the validity of my statements, with the scriptural texts you, again blatantly and willfully deny the Incarnation and its salvific content.

You specifically stated that Christ did not save mankind from death. (you stated..."Absurd. Let me take you to some cemeteries.)

Which also means you do not believe in the Resurrection of the dead in the last day. If man is not raised, and will not see judgement, how can man go either to hell or heaven?

You continue with shameful false accusations and fail to quote & prove. But Cassian, the burden of proving your claims is your own.

Men die all the time. It is appointed to man once to die. Raising unsaved men from the dead does not save them from death. The Lake of Fire is the 2nd death. Anyone who wants to end up there can insist on being judged for his works for a determination of his eternal destiny.

You posted like you believed in universalism. Is that so?

How are you going to get to heaven in your theology? How could you even get to hell?

The issue is not what my theology says. The issue is what does the word of God say.

It says,
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved"
The salvation that issues from believing is something the unsaved man needs. All are not saved. This salvation depends on & follows trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior.

How does one get to Heaven?
"I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish."
You get to Heaven (if you do) by trusting the Lord Jesus and becoming one of His sheep. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor 5), so when a believer dies, he goes to Heaven because that is where the Lord Jesus is. If you are alive when Christ returns for the Church, He will take you to Heaven (see John 14). That where I am, there you may be also.

Your mentioning Calvin proves nothing. I think you have been steeped in the spiritual harlotry of the Eastern Orthodox pseudo-church.

I commend to you a study of scripture -- set aside your harlotry human tradition presuppositions, like the harlot is infallible.
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