It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

It is a Sin to Disbelieve God's Promise of Eternal Life.

At Kadesh-Barnea Israel had a chance to enter the promised land; all Israel needed to get the inheritance was to trust in YHWN, thus not worrying about "giants in the land."

Come posting here remind me of those who could not trust YHWH & enter into His rest, as Hebrews says. They have a list of Canard Giants in the Land:

Giant 1: Well, if one believes in OSS one would crassly & brazenly sin.
Giant 2: Well, the present tense of believe means you can't have security.
Giant 3: Well, my denomination says that Perseverance of the Saints is heresy.
Giant 4: Well, that's Calvinism, & we know that Calvin was a fink.
Giant 5: "I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish" doesn't mean that.
Giant 6: Well, if a believer can lose a crown, that means he could be lost.
Giant 7: Parables can be interpreted against OSS.
Giant 8: The Sheep & Goat Judgment tells us if we don't visit people in the hospital, we will be damned.
Giant 9: Since scripture says that if one keeps the Law perfectly, one is justified (no matter that no one ever has except Christ).
Pigmy 10: The group has security, but not the individuals who make up the group.

And this is the promise which he promised us, even the life eternal.
1 John 2:25

 

[Atwood]

A Nit-Wit Pretends to be a Christian, Yet Rejects Psalm 23!

Has it ever occurred to you that Psalm 23 is about Eternal Security?

preview of coming attractions:



YHWH is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures;
He leadeth me beside still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
He guideth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil; for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies:
Thou hast anointed my head with oil;
My cup runneth over.

Surely goodness and lovingkindness shall follow me all the days of my life;
And I shall dwell in the house of YHWH forever.

Commentary:


YHWH is my shepherd; I shall not want. [I shall not be in want of security, a home in Heaven, or need asbestos underwear]


He restoreth my soul: [You cannot be a believer and end up with an unrestored soul]

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil; for thou art with me;
[I have no fear of something evil after death]
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
[of course I might need a bit of comforting along the way,
instead of asbestos underwear, thick leather maybe]


Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies:
Thou hast anointed my head with oil;
My cup runneth over.
[I spose for those who want to have no security,
their cup runneth under]


Surely goodness and lovingkindness shall follow me all the days of my life;
And I shall dwell in the house of YHWH forever.




Surely goodness and lovingkindness shall follow me all the days of my life;
And I shall dwell in the house of YHWH forever.

 

[Kerry]

David died and went to the Sheol a place in hell called paradise. when Jesus died on the cross he went there and preached the gospel and took the captivity captive. how many times did David repent?

 

[Alligator]

Originally Posted by Atwood

It is noted that you didn't prove a thing, no scripture Kenneth. I can't recall you ever proving any of your claims.

I am aware that scripture teaches that some think they need no salvation, instead, they think they can save themselves by their good works. The Pharisee claimed to be righteous; he wasn't seeking salvation at all; he wanted validation of his works.

Pretenders can indeed be cast out, those who brag about the great things they did in Christ's name. But I don't know what "Jesus said" item you refer to by "believe they are saved."

But believing one is saved is not the point. The point is

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

Now what have you got against that? Do you even believe in the concept of salvation?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.



Kenneth, I wish you the best, but your post here proves nothing. Your claims of what you have posted in the past establishes nothing. I answered your "Church Fathers" theory, but the Word of God is the standard of proof here. "Church Fathers" disagree with each other, include heretics, and are irrelevant. Many endorsed eternal security in their universalism claims. I posted that here, & it is easy to google: "Church Fathers universalism."

BTW, it is OSS, not OSAS. "Once saved, saved!"

As to Augustine, I studied him years ago and concluded that Augustine did not believe in eternal security. But Aug is irrelevant. I myself have read through the Bible many times & once I even marked all the passages on salvation / soteriology, even passages that opponents would claim.

I have plastered the board here with scripture. If that won't convince you, I doubt that I can.

But why stop your ears and talk yourself out of salvation? Do you realize your desperate need to be saved from sin? You must trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved: no ifs, ands, or buts.

Atwood, do you realize that of all these scriptures here you pasted on every page I have read through them for the most part and I have not found one scripture that backs up your theory of OSAS. And don't tell me to call it OSS, it's OSAS and I'll call it what I want to. Do you really believe you're going to convert anybody with this arrogance? Agree with me or you're going to hell, isn't that about right? Here is a clue. Everything doesn't revolve around you, It should be about the holy Scriptures not you and your perversion of them. You may be fooling some people here, but you're not fooling me.

 

[Sinnner]

What doctrine is Jude referring to? What doctrine turns the grace of God into a license? The one that says we must contend for the faith or your doctrine that says once you get saved you can live like hell and you are still saved? Your doctrine is very popular and there are very many takers but what is someone to do when they read the book of Jude and it describes you doctrine perfectly and shows it as false? You will notice all the famous OSAS preachers will avoid the book of Jude.

 

[Atwood]

ES in the Designation "Overcomer" for Believers

To overcome in life is to make it to Heaven and have eternal glorification. Otherwise, you are a loser. Thus if God tells you that you are an overcomer if you believe and that believers are overcomes, you have eternal security.

1 John tells us that the believer overcomes; thus the believer is an overcomer.

I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.


Ye are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.


For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Note the promises to the overcomer:


To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.


He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death [Lake of Fire]


To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it.



He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.

He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

ATwood posted:
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
forenew >foreordained >called >justified >glorified. Rom 8. And since justification is by faith, we have to insert it in that chain somewhere before "justified."


How can it be that when a sinner who is vile (Romans 1-3) is by God's miracle made righteous & declared righteous (justification) that is not part of salvation? Such a person must go to Heaven. There is no way that a righteous person declared righteous would not go to Heaven. Who can condemn? It is God who justifies, God who declares righteous!


In this area, we deal not with possibilities but Bible facts. Men are saved through faith, and they are eternally secure. They trust the Savior, & He delivers His promise of eternal life.
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
"whosoever believes . . . eternal life."


You cannot backquote where I ever discarded faith, but argued for it posting many scriptures; same with eternal security. Also, I have not argued for eternal security off the doctrine of predestination, but presented scriptures for consideration for anyone who cares to ponder the matter. Persons can believe eternal security & justification by faith without thinking that God caused them to believe. We don't have to solve the problem of predestination to conclude eternal security.

My statement.the clear teaching that a believer can lose faith,
your response.....
As so often, dear Cassian you just say things. Where is your proof of that one?



You just go on ranting, not quoting the Bible & proving. Anyone who has been reading this thread can see that there are not just a few isolated verses, and that you speak falsehood.
And if Christ made all men righteous, then the Bible is false, for it presents quite a different picture of depravity. So you don't want a verse isolated? Try Romans 1-3:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.


For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful: who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; . . . .

But if our unrighteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who visiteth with wrath? (I speak after the manner of men.) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:

Such ranting and you did not even address the statement I made. Well, you stated it was false, then go on your tirade and never gave any evidence to the contrary of what I stated.

Here are the texts whereby Christ made all men righteous......
II Cor 5:18-19, it uses the word reconcile but it has the same meaning.
Rom 5:18, Christ made all men justified by giving them life. Justified and righteous have the same meaning, to be put into a correct relationship.
Col 1:20 by His Blood He reconciled all things. Same meaning.
Rom 3:23-25 again the word reconciled all things to God.
Rom 5:6-10, While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He died for all men. Justified all men, made all men righteous, gave life to all men.
Titus 3:3-4, God saved all men, not our righteousness, but God made us righteous.

 

[Atwood]

OSS= Once Saved, Saved! & King David

What doctrine is Jude referring to? What doctrine turns the grace of God into a license? The one that says we must contend for the faith or your doctrine that says once you get saved you can live like hell and you are still saved? Your doctrine is very popular and there are very many takers but what is someone to do when they read the book of Jude and it describes you doctrine perfectly and shows it as false? You will notice all the famous OSAS preachers will avoid the book of Jude.

OSS, Sinnner. You are dreaming, making something up. What is your proof that OSS preachers avoid Jude? Check out preacher J Vernon McGee on YouTube. Be honest. Do you yourself need to stop living like Hell? Is your rejection of the Savior helping you not sin?

Once saved, saved!
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Sinnner, you must realize that your doctrine will not stop you from sinning; failing to trust the Lord Jesus with your life & eternal destiny, is a way to ensure that you will be sinning; for it requires a change of nature a new birth to escape the Romans 1-3 description of man's nature. No trust, no salvation. And if you have a heart that says, "If the Lord gave me ES, I would sin big time, having great sinful pleasures," your heart is that of an unsaved child of Adam. As far as the recipient of ES is concerned,
"The love of Christ constrains Me."

OSS = once saved, saved! That means that there is a limit on sin in this life for the believer; the believer has entered into a salvation contract with the Savior. That means He will see that we get corrected. He has promised to save His people from their sins.

King David had eternal security:

"I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever" he said.

But David committed adultery and murdered Bathsheba's husband.
Yet the LORD led King David to repentance.

Ps 51 " the bones which thou hast broken."
Ps 19

'When I kept silence, my bones wasted away
Through my groaning all the day long.
For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me:
My moisture was changed as with the drought of summer.
. . .
I acknowledged my sin unto thee,"

Part of the secure keeping by the Lord is chastisement,
while it remains true:
"A vineyard of wine, sing ye unto it. I YHWH am its keeper; I will water it every moment: lest any hurt it, I will keep it night and day. Wrath is not in me" - Isa 27

The believer is not corrected out of wrath, but out of Love.

Consider the formidable corrections of the Lord:
There is being delivered to satan for the destruction of the body that the spirit may be saved (1 Cor 6).

King David was assured of dwelling in the House of the Lord forever,
but in the aftermath of his sin he suffered strong chastisement
His daughter was raped, and
4 sons were killed (baby, Amnon, Absalom, & Adonijah).
His own son tried to kill him.
2 sons were killed by 2 other sons.
The young woman who first loved David so much, came to the point where one day she looked out the window & despised him in her heart.

But back to square 1. If one really wants victory over sin in your life, one must trust Christ as Savior; trust Him with one's eternal destiny. Otherwise, expect Romans 1-3 to continue to describe the refuser and his life.

Enter into His contract:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[RickyZ]

Atwood, do you realize that of all these scriptures here you pasted on every page I have read through them for the most part and I have not found one scripture that backs up your theory of OSAS. And don't tell me to call it OSS, it's OSAS and I'll call it what I want to. Do you really believe you're going to convert anybody with this arrogance? Agree with me or you're going to hell, isn't that about right? Here is a clue. Everything doesn't revolve around you, It should be about the holy Scriptures not you and your perversion of them. You may be fooling some people here, but you're not fooling me.

I agree. I see someone with an obsession, not a ministry. And an inability to tell them apart.

 

[newbirth]

Re: ES in the Designation "Overcomer" for Believers

To overcome in life is to make it to Heaven and have eternal glorification. Otherwise, you are a loser. Thus if God tells you that you are an overcomer if you believe and that believers are overcomes, you have eternal security.

1 John tells us that the believer overcomes; thus the believer is an overcomer.

I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.


Ye are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.


For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Note the promises to the overcomer:


To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.


He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death [Lake of Fire]


To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it.



He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.

He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.

I have told you before and tell you again deception is not of God and you will be rewarded for it...
The word of God is alive. the faith we have is alive.and we who believe obey(keep) the commandments of God.
The faith of which you speak is dead ... you believe in word but not in deed...are these words not in the same epistle...

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.



5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Originally Posted by Atwood

ATwood posted:
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
forenew >foreordained >called >justified >glorified. Rom 8. And since justification is by faith, we have to insert it in that chain somewhere before "justified."


How can it be that when a sinner who is vile (Romans 1-3) is by God's miracle made righteous & declared righteous (justification) that is not part of salvation? Such a person must go to Heaven. There is no way that a righteous person declared righteous would not go to Heaven. Who can condemn? It is God who justifies, God who declares righteous!


In this area, we deal not with possibilities but Bible facts. Men are saved through faith, and they are eternally secure. They trust the Savior, & He delivers His promise of eternal life.
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
"whosoever believes . . . eternal life."


You cannot backquote where I ever discarded faith, but argued for it posting many scriptures; same with eternal security. Also, I have not argued for eternal security off the doctrine of predestination, but presented scriptures for consideration for anyone who cares to ponder the matter. Persons can believe eternal security & justification by faith without thinking that God caused them to believe. We don't have to solve the problem of predestination to conclude eternal security.

My statement.the clear teaching that a believer can lose faith,
your response.....
As so often, dear Cassian you just say things. Where is your proof of that one?



You just go on ranting, not quoting the Bible & proving. Anyone who has been reading this thread can see that there are not just a few isolated verses, and that you speak falsehood.
And if Christ made all men righteous, then the Bible is false, for it presents quite a different picture of depravity. So you don't want a verse isolated? Try Romans 1-3:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.


For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness andunrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness,that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; beingfilled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful: who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; . . . .

But if our unrighteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who visiteth with wrath? (I speak after the manner of men.) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:

Such ranting and you did not even address the statement I made. Well, you stated it was false, then go on your tirade and never gave any evidence to the contrary of what I stated.

Your typical ranting has no Bible proof, but just you saying it. The proof is conclusive which I posted, and this quoting the Bible is not ranting. The scripture clearly teaches that all men are not righteous; and that is obviously a preposterous statement.

Here are the texts whereby Christ made all men righteous......
II Cor 5:18-19, it uses the word reconcile but it has the same meaning.

Reconcile does not mean the same thing as make righteous. Reconcile is the allasso group of words, katallage, etc. The root is all- which means "other." kata- is a prepostional prefix which intensifies the verb (like up in eat up your food, in English). Christ's death throughly other-izes the world, including even demons.

Think of a child refusing to eat peas. His father gets out a switch, & the kid eats them. The kid was reconciled to the peas.

But in the special sense of the believer being reconciled, thoroughly-other-ized, that entails new birth and does not apply to unbelievers, for 2 Cor 5 says "be reconciled to God," implying that unbelievers need that reconciliation and do not have it, even if it was provided for on the cross.

It is clear in scripture that while Christ's death pays for all men's sins, the payment is not appropriated until they trust Him as Savior. God so loved the world that He gave His only Son to die on a cross for everyone's sins. But that payment is not effective in producing salvation until men believe: "That whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Rom 5:18, Christ made all men justified by giving them life. Justified and righteous have the same meaning, to be put into a correct relationship.

Try "declare righteous" for justify. It is noted that "all men" is not in Rom 5:18. There exists a many who are Adam's offspring, and a many who are identified with Christ as part of a new race that Christ founded.

Col 1:20 by His Blood He reconciled all things. Same meaning.

"For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fulness dwell; and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens."

All things includes the principalities & powers, rulers of wickedness in high places, & the prince of the power of the air, demons & satan himself. They have been thoroughly-other-ized. They have been put down.

Rom 3:

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

It is the believer who is justified freely, not all men.

Rom 5:6-10, Justified all men, made all men righteous, gave life to all men.

It says no such thing.

Titus 3:3-4, God saved all men, not our righteousness, but God made us righteous.

Titus says no such thing. The us is believers.

You make false implications from verses that do not say "righteous" of unbelievers. As Romans emphasizes, unbelievers are unrighteous:

filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:

 

[Atwood]

Atwood, do you realize that of all these scriptures here you pasted on every page I have read through them for the most part and I have not found one scripture that backs up your theory

The evidence for Eternal Security is abundant and conclusive; a face, not a theory.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

And there is much more.

 

[Atwood]

David died and went to the Sheol a place in hell called paradise. when Jesus died on the cross he went there and preached the gospel and took the captivity captive. how many times did David repent?

"Surely goodness and lovingkindness shall follow me all the days of my life;And I shall dwell in the House of YHWH for ever.

 

[2Thewaters]

There is no such thing as eternal security before you have med the decision on
the name of the Beast
the number of the beast
the image of the beast
for no matter what your profession
if you take the RFID
you WILL be lost.
that is the facts.

 

[Atwood]

OSS: Once Saved, You Continue Saved

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for
if they had been of us, they would have continued with us:
but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

To be an "us," is to be a believer in the Body of Christ.
All believers are part of the Body of Christ, which one enters by baptism of the Spriit (1 Cor 12:13).
Being "of us" means you are a believer in the Body of Christ.

If anyone is "of us," he continues with us.
If he continues with us and does not depart,
then his future is secure, a permanent part of the Body of Christ.

In the Body of Christ there are no discardable parts;
he suffers no amputations.
To hear some persons in disbelief, you would think that Christ was extremely mutilated after 2000 years of amputations.

But no. All His parts continue in His body.

if they had been of us, they would have continued with us:

I shall dwell in the House of the LORD forever.

 

[newbirth]

Re: OSS= Once Saved, Saved! & King David

OSS, Sinnner. You are dreaming, making something up. What is your proof that OSS preachers avoid Jude? Check out preacher J Vernon McGee on YouTube. Be honest. Do you yourself need to stop living like Hell? Is your rejection of the Savior helping you not sin?

Once saved, saved!
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Sinnner, you must realize that your doctrine will not stop you from sinning; failing to trust the Lord Jesus with your life & eternal destiny, is a way to ensure that you will be sinning; for it requires a change of nature a new birth to escape the Romans 1-3 description of man's nature. No trust, no salvation. And if you have a heart that says, "If the Lord gave me ES, I would sin big time, having great sinful pleasures," your heart is that of an unsaved child of Adam. As far as the recipient of ES is concerned,
"The love of Christ constrains Me."

OSS = once saved, saved! That means that there is a limit on sin in this life for the believer; the believer has entered into a salvation contract with the Savior. That means He will see that we get corrected. He has promised to save His people from their sins.

the word of God says do not sin...what you are saying is Christ forces you not to sin..."The love of Christ constrains Me."
John 8:36

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.



King David had eternal security:

"I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever" he said.

But David committed adultery and murdered Bathsheba's husband.
Yet the LORD led King David to repentance.

Ps 51 " the bones which thou hast broken."
Ps 19

'When I kept silence, my bones wasted away
Through my groaning all the day long.
For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me:
My moisture was changed as with the drought of summer.
. . .
I acknowledged my sin unto thee,"

Part of the secure keeping by the Lord is chastisement,
while it remains true:
"A vineyard of wine, sing ye unto it. I YHWH am its keeper; I will water it every moment: lest any hurt it, I will keep it night and day. Wrath is not in me" - Isa 27

The believer is not corrected out of wrath, but out of Love.

Consider the formidable corrections of the Lord:
There is being delivered to satan for the destruction of the body that the spirit may be saved (1 Cor 6).

King David was assured of dwelling in the House of the Lord forever,
but in the aftermath of his sin he suffered strong chastisement
His daughter was raped, and
4 sons were killed (baby, Amnon, Absalom, & Adonijah).
His own son tried to kill him.
2 sons were killed by 2 other sons.
The young woman who first loved David so much, came to the point where one day she looked out the window & despised him in her heart.

But back to square 1. If one really wants victory over sin in your life, one must trust Christ as Savior; trust Him with one's eternal destiny. Otherwise, expect Romans 1-3 to continue to describe the refuser and his life.

Enter into His contract:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins.

But back to square 1. If one really wants victory over sin in your life, one must trust Christ as Savior; so to obey him and continue in him is to trust Him with one's eternal destiny. Otherwise, expect Romans 1-3 to continue to describe the refuser and his life.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

[SUP]18 [/SUP]That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Originally Posted by Atwood

ATwood posted:
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
forenew >foreordained >called >justified >glorified. Rom 8. And since justification is by faith, we have to insert it in that chain somewhere before "justified."


How can it be that when a sinner who is vile (Romans 1-3) is by God's miracle made righteous & declared righteous (justification) that is not part of salvation? Such a person must go to Heaven. There is no way that a righteous person declared righteous would not go to Heaven. Who can condemn? It is God who justifies, God who declares righteous!


In this area, we deal not with possibilities but Bible facts. Men are saved through faith, and they are eternally secure. They trust the Savior, & He delivers His promise of eternal life.
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
"whosoever believes . . . eternal life."


You cannot backquote where I ever discarded faith, but argued for it posting many scriptures; same with eternal security. Also, I have not argued for eternal security off the doctrine of predestination, but presented scriptures for consideration for anyone who cares to ponder the matter. Persons can believe eternal security & justification by faith without thinking that God caused them to believe. We don't have to solve the problem of predestination to conclude eternal security.

My statement.the clear teaching that a believer can lose faith,
your response.....
As so often, dear Cassian you just say things. Where is your proof of that one?



You just go on ranting, not quoting the Bible & proving. Anyone who has been reading this thread can see that there are not just a few isolated verses, and that you speak falsehood.
And if Christ made all men righteous, then the Bible is false, for it presents quite a different picture of depravity. So you don't want a verse isolated? Try Romans 1-3:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.


For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness andunrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness,that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; beingfilled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful: who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; . . . .

But if our unrighteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who visiteth with wrath? (I speak after the manner of men.) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:



Your typical ranting has no Bible proof, but just you saying it. The proof is conclusive which I posted, and this quoting the Bible is not ranting. The scripture clearly teaches that all men are not righteous; and that is obviously a preposterous statement.



Reconcile does not mean the same thing as make righteous. Reconcile is the allasso group of words, katallage, etc. The root is all- which means "other." kata- is a prepostional prefix which intensifies the verb (like up in eat up your food, in English). Christ's death throughly other-izes the world, including even demons.

Think of a child refusing to eat peas. His father gets out a switch, & the kid eats them. The kid was reconciled to the peas.

But in the special sense of the believer being reconciled, thoroughly-other-ized, that entails new birth and does not apply to unbelievers, for 2 Cor 5 says "be reconciled to God," implying that unbelievers need that reconciliation and do not have it, even if it was provided for on the cross.

It is clear in scripture that while Christ's death pays for all men's sins, the payment is not appropriated until they trust Him as Savior. God so loved the world that He gave His only Son to die on a cross for everyone's sins. But that payment is not effective in producing salvation until men believe: "That whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."



Try "declare righteous" for justify. It is noted that "all men" is not in Rom 5:18. There exists a many who are Adam's offspring, and a many who are identified with Christ as part of a new race that Christ founded.



"For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fulness dwell; and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens."

All things includes the principalities & powers, rulers of wickedness in high places, & the prince of the power of the air, demons & satan himself. They have been thoroughly-other-ized. They have been put down.

Rom 3:

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

It is the believer who is justified freely, not all men.




It says no such thing.



Titus says no such thing. The us is believers.

You make false implications from verses that do not say "righteous" of unbelievers. As Romans emphasizes, unbelievers are unrighteous:

filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:

It is amazing how much effort you spend in trying to deny scripture. You have just categorically denied the Incarnation and the work of Christ through His Incarnation and resurrection. I must assume you have never studied anything about the Incarnation in order to so completely deny its existence.

Since you do not believe in the Incarnation, what Christ are you putting your trust in?

If you do not believe He saved mankind from death, how are you even going to get to heaven, or hell for that matter. You just denied that they exist. Now, you are going to tell me I am just blovating but the Incarnation is one of the hallmarks of historical Christianity and you just denied its possibility.

You should read I Cor 15:12-22 which is an Incarnational context passage. It is Christ reversing the fall for all men, from death to life. From mortal to immortality, which is why later vs 53 it states Christ will raise all men at the end of time and all men will be immortal and incorruptible.

Yes, Atwood, Christ reconciled the world, justified the world, made the world acceptable, righteous to God because man could not do it. You and every other human being will be raised, given life, immortality because Christ was Incarnated became man as we are, and raised our mortal natures to life.

John 6:39 makes a unequivocable statement that He will lose none at the resurrection. And the conditional statement, of vs 40, those (of the all men of the world) that see and believe will have eternal life with Christ.

YOu also did not understand II Cor 5:18-19 either. If Christ did not reconcile the world, all things, then being a believer is impossible. This is why Paul in vs 20 makes the statement that a person should reconcile himself to God. This is the same statement as saying we should be justified by faith. It puts us in a correct, acceptable relationship with Christ. It permits us to enter into Christ by repentance, and baptism so that we can begin to work with God to attain eternal life, the whole purpose of why man was created, then saved from the Adamic curse.

You have a long way to go in understanding scripture. But you will never understand it with the huge blinders you possess at present.


The fact of the matter, all the texts you cited, your bold statements, could not even exist unless Christ first made all men righteous (acceptable to Him) by giving them life. Without Christ we are all already condemned to death, to simply return to dust, Gen 3:19. For the most part, your theology denies who Christ is and what He did. You have made Him nothing more than an historical figure, a good teacher, but not the Savior of the world, John 4:42, I John 4:14.

 

[homwardbound]

All that is true, as long as we in the boat. But, we tend to build our own boat and it leads to destruction.

Yes Kerry Brother yes
So i see more than one boat, please tell me which boat is the truth all the way home from God to you, me and all the world

I am drowning in the Lake, and a boat comes and sees me drowning, and throws in a life jacket, Am I saved?
another boat comes and sees my need and throws in a book on instructions how to swim, am I saved?
Another one comes along and picks me up out of the water, and puts me safely in the boat. I am thankful, then I ask does anyone have a cigarette, and can I have a _________________ drink, alcohol.
So these savers throw me back in, am I saved?

Then another Boat comes and does as the last boat did puts me safely in the boat, gives me a drink, hands me a cigarette, and delivers me safely to the shore.
Am i now saved?
Is it the loving kindness of God or the condemnation of people that save? If one is saved and falls away how should we treat that in condemnation, as if God forgave me and not you?
Love you Brother and all peoples, seeing I have no right to ever condemn anyone else since God:
While we were still unbelievers, Christ died for us, to first cleanse us before Father, pout us in the boat and deliver us safely to shore, by giving us the new life in Christ, the resurrected Christ not the dead one
Death was needed first to cleanse us though, and this is only done in Christ, seeing this and accepting this opens the door for the new life that God faithfully has given to all that believe God

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Peter Ends 1 Peter Assuring of Eternal Security

And the God of all grace, who called you unto his eternal glory in Christ, after that ye have suffered a little while, shall himself perfect, establish, strengthen you. To him be the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

As Rom 8 says with its gold chain reaction, he who is called ends up glorified.

foreknew >forordained >called >justified >glorified.

This chain reaction is more certain than that iceberg would lead to the Titanic sinking. Once you hit the iceberg of God's grace, you are a goner.

The believer doesn't play Russian Roulette on damnation. There are no bullets in the damnation gun. The Lord declares righteous, who is he who condemns?
(We have a few on this thread, BTW. But their efforts are in vain. You see Christ paid for our sins, and we may trust in that.)

Given by Christ through death, burial, resurrection and Ascension, FREE CHOICE. Hear that freed to be able to choose belief in God over unbelief, and thus walk as Christ walked in love to all
The condemnation part is done, Christ took that all of it by his death, for anyone who believes God receives the new life in Spirit and truth via the resurrected Christ where we give up all our self works for God tpo do God's done work through us you think?
For he came to give us what? Stress or rest in him?

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

"For by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works" lest NewBirth should boast.


Atwood, Brother, is that remark from God through you or your frustrated flesh, That statement of yours above about newbirth is that righteous of you?
You are claiming to beleive and see, I agree with much of what you say, but does not this incite another flesh?

I remember when I was a baby and would react not a I am now, but as _____________________ . Thanking god I am seeing past that, to not accuse, abuse, or condemn anyone, in any way, since God by his Mercy gave this to me by Son's finished work for me
So I am not condemning you fro your reaction, n or for anyone either
You decide in you, what to do from here, whether sorry or not is on you between you God, and newbirth
I pray for everyone Joy, love and peace in the Holy Spirit of Father through Son
For he did not go to the cross just for you and only a few, he went for all, leaving all with one last choice
Believe or do not believe, God knows who do and who do not, not our decision to act as if we are better that anyone else, for I have no righteousness of my own ever, does anyone else in all truth, does anyone have any of their own?
And it is okay if anyone thinks they do, no problem, I trust God to cause us to stand, seeing Romans 14, much deeper that just about food. Only God can reveal this to us

[h=3]Romans 14[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The Weak and the Strong[/h]14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. [SUP]2 [/SUP]One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

Love to you Brother