It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[newbirth]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Well NewB, it is good that while one affirms that God's word is basically clear (with some obtuse passages), yet we may err on the interpretation of a verse. I see the 2 Cor passage at that spot as a place where Paul is giving a sample of his message, and that the "you" refers to unsaved men to whom he preaches that they need to be reconciled, throughly changed so that the old things pass away and all becomes new.

Of course in Corinth there were associated with the church there, a number of unsaved persons. In the NT the church of Corinth was a particularly problematic church. There certainly is nothing in Corinthians indicating that saved persons got lost, though there is a particularly rigorous chastisement assigned to a fornicator in 1 Cor 6. 2 Cor has " brother goeth to law with brother," sinning Christians who were still brothers -- nothing about them "losing salvation."

BTW, as long as one believes "losing salvation," that shows that one does not believe in salvation, nor in the Savior. To such a one, the Gospel is Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. Somehow such a one must come to the realization that he needs to trust the Lord Jesus for His eternal destiny.

There is too much at stake here my friend...I believe in Christ and thus I obey him...
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[Sinnner]

OSS, Sinnner. You are dreaming, making something up. What is your proof that OSS preachers avoid Jude? Check out preacher J Vernon McGee on YouTube. Be honest. Do you yourself need to stop living like Hell? Is your rejection of the Savior helping you not sin?

Once saved, saved!
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Sinnner, you must realize that your doctrine will not stop you from sinning; failing to trust the Lord Jesus with your life & eternal destiny, is a way to ensure that you will be sinning; for it requires a change of nature a new birth to escape the Romans 1-3 description of man's nature. No trust, no salvation. And if you have a heart that says, "If the Lord gave me ES, I would sin big time, having great sinful pleasures," your heart is that of an unsaved child of Adam. As far as the recipient of ES is concerned,
"The love of Christ constrains Me."

OSS = once saved, saved! That means that there is a limit on sin in this life for the believer; the believer has entered into a salvation contract with the Savior. That means He will see that we get corrected. He has promised to save His people from their sins.

King David had eternal security:

"I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever" he said.

But David committed adultery and murdered Bathsheba's husband.
Yet the LORD led King David to repentance.

Ps 51 " the bones which thou hast broken."
Ps 19

'When I kept silence, my bones wasted away
Through my groaning all the day long.
For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me:
My moisture was changed as with the drought of summer.
. . .
I acknowledged my sin unto thee,"

Part of the secure keeping by the Lord is chastisement,
while it remains true:
"A vineyard of wine, sing ye unto it. I YHWH am its keeper; I will water it every moment: lest any hurt it, I will keep it night and day. Wrath is not in me" - Isa 27

The believer is not corrected out of wrath, but out of Love.

Consider the formidable corrections of the Lord:
There is being delivered to satan for the destruction of the body that the spirit may be saved (1 Cor 6).

King David was assured of dwelling in the House of the Lord forever,
but in the aftermath of his sin he suffered strong chastisement
His daughter was raped, and
4 sons were killed (baby, Amnon, Absalom, & Adonijah).
His own son tried to kill him.
2 sons were killed by 2 other sons.
The young woman who first loved David so much, came to the point where one day she looked out the window & despised him in her heart.

But back to square 1. If one really wants victory over sin in your life, one must trust Christ as Savior; trust Him with one's eternal destiny. Otherwise, expect Romans 1-3 to continue to describe the refuser and his life.

Enter into His contract:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins.

Where you err once again is assuming I don't trust Jesus. I trust Jesus with my life and I know I am saved by faith through grace and I am able to realize that it's not by my works. But my faith in him is proved by my works cause faith without works is dead. That means if my faith is gone then the grace is gone since faith is the conduit to access grace. It's actually easy to understand. When you see it this way, the correct way you will see that all scripture makes since and you will no longer have to twist them and make the gospel of Jesus Christ into the gospel of confusion or of license. You still have not explained what doctrine that Jude is referring to that gives license. Oh , and I can call it OSAS, that's what it's referred to. I don't have to use your made up reference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where you err once again is assuming I don't trust Jesus. I trust Jesus with my life and I know I am saved by faith through grace and I am able to realize that it's not by my works. But my faith in him is proved by my works cause faith without works is dead. That means if my faith is gone then the grace is gone since faith is the conduit to access grace.

Actually it is you who err my friend.

If you had true faith in the promise of God. You would have faith in everything he said. Including the fact he has adopted you. He will never depart from you. He has saved you and given you ETERNAL LIFE. The fact yuo will never hunger or thirst, never die, live forever. Have been made to sit (already) in heavenly places. I can go on and on.

You may have an agreement with God, Who Christ was, And what he did on the cross. But you do not have faith in him to do what he promised. Not based on your work. But his work.

Remember, the jews in james went to church, They even evidently held position of leadership. But paul said they NEVER had faith, All they had was mere belief. The demons believe, But they feared at the thought of facing God. Anyone who has any fear of judgment are no different than the demons.

It's actually easy to understand. When you see it this way, the correct way you will see that all scripture makes since and you will no longer have to twist them and make the gospel of Jesus Christ into the gospel of confusion or of license. You still have not explained what doctrine that Jude is referring to that gives license. Oh , and I can call it OSAS, that's what it's referred to. I don't have to use your made up reference.

1. Jude spoke of people who believe yet had no faith in Christ. No faith = no salvation. Many people believe God. yet have no faith at all in what he says. They proved their lack of faith by their sin. (notice Jude says their condemnation was long before ordained. God knew they would never be saved, they are impostors..

2. Sorry, Your legalism causes confustion. It calls God a liar when he says we HAVE eternal life. It makes jesus in John 3-6 and more a liar.

Instead of hating on people who place gtheir coplete faith in Christ after admitting they have NO HOPE and can not help themselves by calling on the name of the lord. See what makes them have that faith!! Legalism sounds good. It sounds Godly. Yet so do most of satans half truths!

 

[kennethcadwell]

James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[Sinnner]

Actually it is you who err my friend.

If you had true faith in the promise of God. You would have faith in everything he said. Including the fact he has adopted you. He will never depart from you. He has saved you and given you ETERNAL LIFE. The fact yuo will never hunger or thirst, never die, live forever. Have been made to sit (already) in heavenly places. I can go on and on.

You may have an agreement with God, Who Christ was, And what he did on the cross. But you do not have faith in him to do what he promised. Not based on your work. But his work.

Remember, the jews in james went to church, They even evidently held position of leadership. But paul said they NEVER had faith, All they had was mere belief. The demons believe, But they feared at the thought of facing God. Anyone who has any fear of judgment are no different than the demons.




1. Jude spoke of people who believe yet had no faith in Christ. No faith = no salvation. Many people believe God. yet have no faith at all in what he says. They proved their lack of faith by their sin. (notice Jude says their condemnation was long before ordained. God knew they would never be saved, they are impostors..

2. Sorry, Your legalism causes confustion. It calls God a liar when he says we HAVE eternal life. It makes jesus in John 3-6 and more a liar.

Instead of hating on people who place gtheir coplete faith in Christ after admitting they have NO HOPE and can not help themselves by calling on the name of the lord. See what makes them have that faith!! Legalism sounds good. It sounds Godly. Yet so do most of satans half truths!

But that's not what the bible says.

 

[kennethcadwell]

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

This again is from James. He is talking about those who have fallen away that are now destined to death, it is up to us to bring them back to our Lord to save his soul. If unsuccessful that one will lose their salvation.

 

[Atwood]

But that's not what the bible says.

glad to see you refer to the authority.'

have you considered the proof texts posted?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

And? If someone claims to have faith in Christ, And never had a changed life. Never Never gained victory over any sin. Never showed any sign of actually having faith in what God said. As james said, Are hearers of the word. and not doers.

CAN THEIR FAITH SAVE THEM?

James is not promoting a legalistic gospel that salvation can be lost. He is fighting a dead orthodoxy that says I can agree with the doctrines of God. and that is ALL I have to do. I can go on living however I want. it does not matter.

No repentance. No faith. NO SALVATION.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But that's not what the bible says.

It is not?

Thats funny, Thats whay John 3 - 6 says. That is what Jude says.

We must have different bibles.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

This again is from James. He is talking about those who have fallen away that are now destined to death, it is up to us to bring them back to our Lord to save his soul. If unsuccessful that one will lose their salvation.

James is talking to former devout jews and followers of the law. Who have heard the gospel of faith in Christ apart from the law. WHo have yet to place their true faith in Christ, proven by their lack of work.

James said zero work. zero faith. He is not talking to people who at one time had true faith, and fallen away. This is a grose misunderstanding of James. and makes james contradict what Paul later preached to those who believe salvation must be gained by human merit. or can be lost by lack of human merit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Another warning to keep steady in your walk with God, striving to do as requested or commanded to receive eternal life..Funny how this matches what our Lord Jesus said to persevere to the end to be saved. Both to me would suggest that the gift of eternal life ( saved ) is not granted tell you pass from life in the flesh to life in the spirit. As in a actual death, or the transformation at the rapture.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Once again yes he is talking about having true faith. You can not fall away and have to be turned back if you were not part of something in the first place.

Just like in human standard situation...you can not be rehired for a job if you did not get hired and lose that job to began with. You had to have the job first.

James is talking to former devout jews and followers of the law. Who have heard the gospel of faith in Christ apart from the law. WHo have yet to place their true faith in Christ, proven by their lack of work.

James said zero work. zero faith. He is not talking to people who at one time had true faith, and fallen away. This is a grose misunderstanding of James. and makes james contradict what Paul later preached to those who believe salvation must be gained by human merit. or can be lost by lack of human merit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Another warning to keep steady in your walk with God, striving to do as requested or commanded to receive eternal life..Funny how this matches what our Lord Jesus said to persevere to the end to be saved. Both to me would suggest that the gift of eternal life ( saved ) is not granted tell you pass from life in the flesh to life in the spirit. As in a actual death, or the transformation at the rapture.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God[SUP][b][/SUP] and our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

Jude is speaking about false prophets infiltrating the church. Men who were condemned before they even stepped foot in the church for prophet.

He is not saying one can lose salvation. He is warning us not to fall for their deception.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once again yes he is talking about having true faith. You can not fall away and have to be turned back if you were not part of something in the first place.

Yes you can. You can have the gospel in your hand, Even believe in it (apart from faith) and fall away from that which could have saved you. It happens all the time.

Why do you so desire to make james contradict paul? And add your own human merit to the gospel of Christ?

James said they had NO FAITH. because they had NO WORK. He asked the question. can that workless (lifeless) faith ever save them?

that is hugely different than saying someone who at one time had saving faith and true salvation then lost it. If he is saying this. He would be obligued to let us know how many lack of works would cause a loss of salvation. or how many would cause a true salvation.

Your belief causes james to cause confusion. Doubt and fear. and contradiction to Pauls writtings.



Just like in human standard situation...you can not be rehired for a job if you did not get hired and lose that job to began with. You had to have the job first.[/QUOTE]

 

[kennethcadwell]

These people James is talking to is Jews that learned the truth and followed the ways of Christ, but then turned away to follow the old traditions again. The same things Paul debated with Peter about doing. Forcing the old customs that do not apply on new believers in Christ. They were turned away from the true way.

James is talking to former devout jews and followers of the law. Who have heard the gospel of faith in Christ apart from the law. WHo have yet to place their true faith in Christ, proven by their lack of work.

James said zero work. zero faith. He is not talking to people who at one time had true faith, and fallen away. This is a grose misunderstanding of James. and makes james contradict what Paul later preached to those who believe salvation must be gained by human merit. or can be lost by lack of human merit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

h

What good would it do. You would just ignore them.

why do you bother even coming in here. You never have anythign meaningful to say. All you do is attack.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I do not contradict Paul. For even Jesus stated there will be different groups of people who receive the good news.

Some will accept it

Some will accept it for a while, but then fall away ( lose what they had ) """hince no once saved always saved here"""

Some will accept but not do

Some will hear but refuse the truth

Yes you can. You can have the gospel in your hand, Even believe in it (apart from faith) and fall away from that which could have saved you. It happens all the time.

Why do you so desire to make james contradict paul? And add your own human merit to the gospel of Christ?

James said they had NO FAITH. because they had NO WORK. He asked the question. can that workless (lifeless) faith ever save them?

that is hugely different than saying someone who at one time had saving faith and true salvation then lost it. If he is saying this. He would be obligued to let us know how many lack of works would cause a loss of salvation. or how many would cause a true salvation.

Your belief causes james to cause confusion. Doubt and fear. and contradiction to Pauls writtings.



Just like in human standard situation...you can not be rehired for a job if you did not get hired and lose that job to began with. You had to have the job first.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Atwood]

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone
, Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

This again is from James. He is talking about those who have
fallen away [sic, erred from truth, not fallen away]
that are now destined to death, it is up to us to bring them back to our Lord to save his soul [sic, a soul, not his soul].
If unsuccessful that one will
lose their salvation.[sic, text does not say "lose their salvation"].

Kenneth, you are adding things not in the text. The saving here is "save a soul from death," which I take to be physical death (Save a soul from death = save a person from death); see above context on a Christian who is sick apparently because of his sin.

The issue is wandering or erring from truth, not falling away from salvation.

"My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins."


The issue is a man erring or wandering from the truth, not from salvation. There is nothing about losing salvation here. Also, the word "lose" does not occur.

Your post is another example where someone finds a verse that says something that the person deems inconsistent with eternal security, but not actually on the topic at all. Then one invents inferences not in the text.

"I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever."
If you would do that, trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[2Thewaters]

There is only one truth on every doctrine.
The BIble, if you look up every verse will give it to you with prayer.

 

[Atwood]

I do not contradict Paul. For even Jesus stated there will be different groups of people who receive the good news.

Some will accept it

Some will accept it for a while, but then fall away ( lose what they had ) """hince no once saved always saved here"""

Some will accept but not do

Some will hear but refuse the truth

Kenneth are you aware that you are just saying things with no scripture to prove it?

People become professed Christians & then apostatize.
1 John 2 says that if they are real believers they do not apostatize, but their departure proves they were never part of the Body of Christ. If you read this thread, you must have read the scripture now.