It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
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E
so these are not saved evident by their lack of work so one has to work to prove their true faith to show they are saved
No. Those who have true faith will work. It is not a demand, it is a guarantee. True faith has true works.
James is telling you to test your own faith. Not telling you to test someone elses faith.
James said zero work. zero faith. He is not talking to people who at one time had true faith, and fallen away. This is a grose misunderstanding of James. and makes james contradict what Paul later preached to those who believe salvation must be gained by human merit. or can be lost by lack of human merit.
So when one is saved or at one time had true faith and fallen away zero work zero faith does not apply to them
You can try to run from your father, but your still your fathers son. Only difference is God is all knowing, He will leave his flock to go get you. And as scripture says, His sheep hear his voice. If yuo left. and God calls after you and yuo do not return, You were never Gods sheep. As proven by the fact, you do not recognize his voice.
H
Jesus did teach OSAS, Once Saved Always Saved. That is a no brainer; But the opposite is true, we must persevere in holiness to be saved. Yet there are some saved that backslide so bad that God kills them "so they would be lost with the world". And I believe all thre statements, because they are all in the Bible. I don't judge the Bible, I believe it. Lovw to all. Hoffco
E
You didn't prove anything because the whole chapter of Matthew 24 applies to us now and the end of the age. For it talks about the birth pains that we must go through first and are going through now before the tribulation period starts, and for all that persevere through all this will be saved into eternal life.
He is talking about physical life About those alive in the end. Not spiritual life. and making it to heaven. THAT is his context.
Jesus can not contradict himself. WHy do you make him do so?
K
Wrong, just because it is mentioned in the chapter after the birth pains are mentioned does not mean it does not apply. Once again you must go back to the other scriptures from our Lord and the apostles that talk about our own personal trials and tribulations we must go through and persevere through them and not turn away do to them.
Response to another I saw posted...The Holy Spirit guides us, He does not control us....which is why the scriptures say we make the Holy Spirit grieve cause of the things we still do. Just as the Apostle Paul mentioned, and yes he was filled with the Holy Spirit, said he still said and did things he should not do ( sins ).
Response to another I saw posted...The Holy Spirit guides us, He does not control us....which is why the scriptures say we make the Holy Spirit grieve cause of the things we still do. Just as the Apostle Paul mentioned, and yes he was filled with the Holy Spirit, said he still said and did things he should not do ( sins ).
Um. The persevering part is persevering AFTER the birth pangs.
He is talking about physical life About those alive in the end. Not spiritual life. and making it to heaven. THAT is his context.
Jesus can not contradict himself. WHy do you make him do so?
He is talking about physical life About those alive in the end. Not spiritual life. and making it to heaven. THAT is his context.
Jesus can not contradict himself. WHy do you make him do so?
You didn't prove anything because the whole chapter of Matthew 24 applies to us now and the end of the age. For it talks about the birth pains that we must go through first and are going through now before the tribulation period starts, and for all that persevere through all this will be saved into eternal life.
I can't see that we are going through the birthpangs of Israel now, not that I call anyone a heretic for disagreeing with me. Christians don't agree on eschatology; it is not a matter of heresy for me.
K
Jesus can not contradict himself. WHy do you make him do so? [/QUOTE]
I do not make our Lord Jesus contradict Himself...I believe as He said that I must stand firm/endure/persevere to the end to be saved. I am no better than those who go through the tribulation. If they have to persevere to the end, so do I. Rather that end be death in the flesh, and then life in the spirit..or the rapture which ever comes first.
And for the negative ones out there...just because some one does not believe in OSAS does not mean they do not trust in our Lord Jesus Christ. We trust in Him that we will be saved for enduring the trials and tribulations we must go through and keep our love and belief in Him.
I do not make our Lord Jesus contradict Himself...I believe as He said that I must stand firm/endure/persevere to the end to be saved. I am no better than those who go through the tribulation. If they have to persevere to the end, so do I. Rather that end be death in the flesh, and then life in the spirit..or the rapture which ever comes first.
And for the negative ones out there...just because some one does not believe in OSAS does not mean they do not trust in our Lord Jesus Christ. We trust in Him that we will be saved for enduring the trials and tribulations we must go through and keep our love and belief in Him.
Where you err once again is assuming I don't trust Jesus. I trust Jesus with my life and I know I am saved by faith through grace and I am able to realize that it's not by my works. But my faith in him is proved by my works cause faith without works is dead.
That means if my faith is gone then the grace is gone since faith is the conduit to access grace.
You still have not explained what doctrine that Jude is referring to that gives license.
OSS = once saved, saved!
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Can you trust the Lord Jesus for your salvation, for your eternal destiny, & not just to give you a chance at salvation?
K
I did look at it and what does it say about the birth pains, it says do not be worried or trouble because the end is not yet. These are the signs we are to look for to usher in the 7 years of tribulation, but it does not say how long or short the birth pains will be.
Also it is referred to birth pains because, as a woman who is in labor it starts out mild and then the pains get harder and sharper. So will the signs, they will start off mild but then things will get worse and worse.
The only timeline you can get from the bible is the length of the tribulation period, it does not say how long the birth pains period is.
Also it is referred to birth pains because, as a woman who is in labor it starts out mild and then the pains get harder and sharper. So will the signs, they will start off mild but then things will get worse and worse.
The only timeline you can get from the bible is the length of the tribulation period, it does not say how long the birth pains period is.
Kenneth, take another look at it, or are you determined to allegorize it? Signs are given of the Lord's return & of the Consummation of the age in Mat 24. The Church is not mentioned. It is Israel & the gentile nations there. Certain troubles happen called "The beginning of birth pangs." Israel's birthpangs happen before the realization of her kingdom. The signs that follow are parallel to the seals in the Book of Rev chapter 6. After the Beginning of travail, comes the Great Tribulation marked by outbreak of persecution (Seal 5). Mat 24 is paralleled also in Daniel 9, the 70th week of Israel's history.
I can't see that we are going through the birthpangs of Israel now, not that I call anyone a heretic for disagreeing with me. Christians don't agree on eschatology; it is not a matter of heresy for me.
I can't see that we are going through the birthpangs of Israel now, not that I call anyone a heretic for disagreeing with me. Christians don't agree on eschatology; it is not a matter of heresy for me.
Kenneth, you are adding things not in the text. The saving here is "save a soul from death," which I take to be physical death (Save a soul from death = save a person from death); see above context on a Christian who is sick apparently because of his sin.
The issue is wandering or erring from truth, not falling away from salvation.
"My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins."
The issue is a man erring or wandering from the truth, not from salvation. There is nothing about losing salvation here. Also, the word "lose" does not occur.
Your post is another example where someone finds a verse that says something that the person deems inconsistent with eternal security, but not actually on the topic at all. Then one invents inferences not in the text.
"I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever."
If you would do that, trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
You cite scripture that does not even support your premise. I also notice that you still have that straw man that we are actually saved finitely simply by belief, that faith only, and instant salvation. Actually it is speaking about eternal life, not salvation.
Your opponents are actually teaching scripture and what scripture mean regarding attaining eternal life. You are teaching another gospel according to Calvin mostly with some other man developed theories as well. Isn't any wonder you are far afield of scripture as it has been understood from the beginning.
Just for your enlightenment, Christ saved all men from death. Death is no longer our enemy. The death that can only affect us is spiritual death. The death in James 5:19-20 is spiritual death, hell, the Second death. It is LOSS OF SALVATION, BUT MORE ACURATE, LOSS OF ETERNAL LIFE WITH CHRIST.
If one does not change the meaning of words, scripture will tell you what it means and in this case it is quite clear. It is a clear teaching against the false "eternal security" that you espouse, as a lot of other texts that others have posted consistantly clearly shows the vacuousness of "eternal security" as understood by you.
Jesus can not contradict himself. WHy do you make him do so?
No, He never said that at all. Let's see your quote where "must . . . to be saved" occurs. It is a fact by eternal security that the saved do persevere. There is no question about it.
Can you trust Him to get you to Heaven & stop distrusting thinking He just gives you a chance?
K
I already posted that scripture from Matthew 24...sorry you missed it or have not read it.
No, He never said that at all. Let's see your quote where "must . . . to be saved" occurs. It is a fact by eternal security that the saved do persevere. There is no question about it.
Can you trust Him to get you to Heaven & stop distrusting thinking He just gives you a chance?[/QUOTE]
I do not make our Lord Jesus contradict Himself...I believe as He said that I must stand firm/endure/persevere to the end to be saved.
Can you trust Him to get you to Heaven & stop distrusting thinking He just gives you a chance?[/QUOTE]
So far, so good.
Now where on earth does the Bible say that? Where does any saved person stop trusting Christ as SAvior to eternal life? Why don't you focus on what the Bible says about eternal life? I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. You reason since this or since that -- all unnecessary conclusions. You assume that faith can go & that grace does not sustain faith. But it did for Peter. What did Peter do to merit Christ's intercessory prayer (grace) that Peter's faith fail not?
Again, off topic of eternal security. Why explain what is crystal clear? God's grace doesn't produce sin; it prevents sin. Using grace as an excuse to sin is the mentality of someone who is not saved.
OSS = once saved, saved!
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Can you trust the Lord Jesus for your salvation, for your eternal destiny, & not just to give you a chance at salvation?
Now where on earth does the Bible say that? Where does any saved person stop trusting Christ as SAvior to eternal life? Why don't you focus on what the Bible says about eternal life? I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. You reason since this or since that -- all unnecessary conclusions. You assume that faith can go & that grace does not sustain faith. But it did for Peter. What did Peter do to merit Christ's intercessory prayer (grace) that Peter's faith fail not?
Again, off topic of eternal security. Why explain what is crystal clear? God's grace doesn't produce sin; it prevents sin. Using grace as an excuse to sin is the mentality of someone who is not saved.
OSS = once saved, saved!
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Can you trust the Lord Jesus for your salvation, for your eternal destiny, & not just to give you a chance at salvation?
Christ saved all men from death. Death is no longer our enemy.
Are you teaching the heresy of universalism? Universalism is an extreme "eternal security" position and a heresy, a heresy of so called "Church Fathers" too.
The death that can only affect us is spiritual death. The death in James 5:19-20 is spiritual death, hell, the Second death. It is LOSS OF SALVATION, BUT MORE ACURATE, LOSS OF ETERNAL LIFE WITH CHRIST.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
E
I do not make our Lord Jesus contradict Himself...I believe as He said that I must stand firm/endure/persevere to the end to be saved.
Thanks you just proved what I have been saying all along.
I am no better than those who go through the tribulation.
If they have to persevere to the end, so do I. Rather that end be death in the flesh, and then life in the spirit..or the rapture which ever comes first.
Context.
And for the negative ones out there...just because some one does not believe in OSAS does not mean they do not trust in our Lord Jesus Christ. We trust in Him that we will be saved for enduring the trials and tribulations we must go through and keep our love and belief in Him.
Your trust is in self and your ability to do those things. Not jesus, If you trusted jesus, Yuo would trust him to carry you through to the end. And keep his promise to save you based on his works, His work. His adoption. His redemption. His justification, His righteousness.
Sorry to be so blunt, But I see no other way to put it.
S
You do not trust in eternal life. That Jesus will continue to do a good work in you till the end. He will never leave nor forsake you. He will keep his promise to yuo as your abba father.
You trust self. Not jesus. If you trusted jesus, You would believe his gift is eternal. not conditional. And he will keep his promise.
You trust self. Not jesus. If you trusted jesus, You would believe his gift is eternal. not conditional. And he will keep his promise.
E
Wrong, just because it is mentioned in the chapter after the birth pains are mentioned does not mean it does not apply. Once again you must go back to the other scriptures from our Lord and the apostles that talk about our own personal trials and tribulations we must go through and persevere through them and not turn away do to them.
Response to another I saw posted...The Holy Spirit guides us, He does not control us....which is why the scriptures say we make the Holy Spirit grieve cause of the things we still do. Just as the Apostle Paul mentioned, and yes he was filled with the Holy Spirit, said he still said and did things he should not do ( sins ).
Response to another I saw posted...The Holy Spirit guides us, He does not control us....which is why the scriptures say we make the Holy Spirit grieve cause of the things we still do. Just as the Apostle Paul mentioned, and yes he was filled with the Holy Spirit, said he still said and did things he should not do ( sins ).
no. You have to go to all the passages where jesus said he will keep his promise no matter what because it is based on his work not ours.
this does not jive with persevering to the end to gain eternal life. that makes eternal life a reward. a wage earned. Not a gift of God.
A gift is not a wage, A wage is not a gift. they are polar opposites.