Does God literally 'speak' to us in these days?

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dabodab

Guest
#1
Does God literally speak to us?


When I accepted Jesus as Lord at just 15 years old, it was told to me that God would 'speak' to my heart about stuff.


Later, when I began a relationship with God through His Word, prayer, and fellowship with other believers, God 'spoke' to me regularly (or, so I believed). About all kinds of stuff, both bizarre and practical.


Some things I 'heard' God say to me came to pass, but I also 'heard' Him say stuff that was incorrect. That is, what was thought to be 'heard' proved to be false. In retrospect, some things I 'heard' did not square with the Word and were merely emotion based.


Apostle Paul said he was given a thorn in his flesh to buffet his body and, when he asked it be removed, Paul said God told him 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect thru weakness' (paraphrased). Imagine ... Paul did not have the NT with which to line up what God said to him!


Recently, prayer has been answered for me - prayers which are sometimes questions - in dreams. As well, I believe God shows me things about myself while dreaming, characteristics I need to give up to Him, a 'checking' of sorts.


I'm seeking more of Him and wonder about communication with God I may be missing (understand this... I know 'God' is the Holy Spirit).

Not to discount His Word at all, which is His grandest communication vessel. I guess my longing for a deeper relationship with Him today takes me back to days past, when I believed a good relationship DID exist.


Do you ask or expect God to audibly speak to you? If so, does the communication have sound?

Thanks in advance for any testimonials.

~Deb
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
767
113
39
Australia
#2
Yes, I do ask and expect God to speak to me and He does. Sometimes it may not be in the way I expect, sometimes in a dream, thru other people or thru circumstances and things. As for sounds, well yeah it is a voice, a still small voice and sometimes it just sounds like my own thoughts and looking in hindsight it wasn't just a 'thought' for eg. I was driving to work the other day and a 'thought' came to me, 'Its almost time to think about having another child.' So I thought about that, then went to my wife and discussed and she mentioned that she thought the same thing a month ago and told God to speak to me about it first. So having said that, I believe Holy Spirit brought the subject up with me.
I don't listen to those who don't believe God speaks these days, God has always spoken to me after I was born again and even before that (not recognising it as God) Not believing God speaks does not line up with the history of the bible in any way. So be encouraged God is desiring more than any of us to communicate with us and talking to communicate is not limited between humans and we didn't invent the idea of talking with one another. :)
 
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dabodab

Guest
#3
Yes, I do ask and expect God to speak to me and He does. Sometimes it may not be in the way I expect, sometimes in a dream, thru other people or thru circumstances and things. As for sounds, well yeah it is a voice, a still small voice and sometimes it just sounds like my own thoughts and looking in hindsight it wasn't just a 'thought' for eg. I was driving to work the other day and a 'thought' came to me, 'Its almost time to think about having another child.' So I thought about that, then went to my wife and discussed and she mentioned that she thought the same thing a month ago and told God to speak to me about it first. So having said that, I believe Holy Spirit brought the subject up with me.
I don't listen to those who don't believe God speaks these days, God has always spoken to me after I was born again and even before that (not recognising it as God) Not believing God speaks does not line up with the history of the bible in any way. So be encouraged God is desiring more than any of us to communicate with us and talking to communicate is not limited between humans and we didn't invent the idea of talking with one another. :)
Thanks much for your testimony, particularly the part about your wife confirming what you thought/felt/heard.
I also believe we hear from God thru others and circumstances. Sometimes loudly, sometimes softly.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,166
1,797
113
#4
There are some people who say that God only speaks through the Bible, but I don't find that teaching in the Bible. In the Bible, I see that God speaks to people in numerous ways. He spoke audibly to Moses and the nation of Israel. The people of Israel didn't want to hear the voice anymore. Just imagine the sounds of blaring trumpets, thunder, and God speaking. It must have been frightening for them. So God raised up prophets. With Moses, He spoke as a man speaks to his friend. But with other prophets, He would speak through dreams, visions, and dark sayings. So even in the time of Moses, hearing God's audible voice was not the only way He communicated. We also read about God sending messages through angels.

In the New Testament, we read about spiritual gifts like prophecy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, and spiritual experiences like dreams and visions and encounters with angels. God can communicate, but doesn't always choose an audible voice as the means of doing so.

I met one man who as a wealthy Christian businessman. I had no idea how wealthy at the time. He'd made the Forbe's most wealthy list that year. He said the Lord would speak to him and that he would hear an audible voice. He did not seem to be crazy, and it would have been difficult for him to run his company if he were. He also said God had spoken to him like this for him to give people money. My wife and I went to dinner at his house to pray about a problem with a ministry he was involved in. His wife had witnessed my wife prophesy, and they had other people with similar gifts there that night. I think they selectively invited people so they could hear from God on the specific problem the ministry faced. Someone prophesied over me there, and I got a somewhat similar prophecy within a few months of that time from someone else from a distant part of the country. That's one of the interesting things about prophecy, that one person may prophesy something about you, and then someone somewhere else who doesn't know the one who prophesied about you can give you a similar prophecy.
 
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dabodab

Guest
#5
There are some people who say that God only speaks through the Bible, but I don't find that teaching in the Bible. In the Bible, I see that God speaks to people in numerous ways. He spoke audibly to Moses and the nation of Israel. The people of Israel didn't want to hear the voice anymore. Just imagine the sounds of blaring trumpets, thunder, and God speaking. It must have been frightening for them. So God raised up prophets. With Moses, He spoke as a man speaks to his friend. But with other prophets, He would speak through dreams, visions, and dark sayings. So even in the time of Moses, hearing God's audible voice was not the only way He communicated. We also read about God sending messages through angels.

In the New Testament, we read about spiritual gifts like prophecy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, and spiritual experiences like dreams and visions and encounters with angels. God can communicate, but doesn't always choose an audible voice as the means of doing so.

I met one man who as a wealthy Christian businessman. I had no idea how wealthy at the time. He'd made the Forbe's most wealthy list that year. He said the Lord would speak to him and that he would hear an audible voice. He did not seem to be crazy, and it would have been difficult for him to run his company if he were. He also said God had spoken to him like this for him to give people money. My wife and I went to dinner at his house to pray about a problem with a ministry he was involved in. His wife had witnessed my wife prophesy, and they had other people with similar gifts there that night. I think they selectively invited people so they could hear from God on the specific problem the ministry faced. Someone prophesied over me there, and I got a somewhat similar prophecy within a few months of that time from someone else from a distant part of the country. That's one of the interesting things about prophecy, that one person may prophesy something about you, and then someone somewhere else who doesn't know the one who prophesied about you can give you a similar prophecy.
Hi Presidente, may I call you Pres? (Insert winking emoticon here; I use mobile internet service)

Thank you especially for your story of the rich man. I have been in many meetings where prophesy was used as proclamation, and was once told I should join the Peace Corps! Among other things at other times. For some reason that one sticks in my mind. I was a young newlywed and my husband didn't agree with the Peace Corp prophesy.

As an aside... I believe crazy people can and do run successful businesses. <smile>

My favorite communications from God are when I have been shown a truth about something, maybe about an attitude or fear or some sin in my life, and then immediately hear that same truth being taught on a Christian radio ministry.

Thanks again for your testimony, Sir.
 

sjr

Member
Oct 7, 2012
35
0
6
#6
Predidente a friend of mine told me that he doesn't speak to people like by speaking with the person voice. I am confussed now.
 
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dabodab

Guest
#7
I am confussed now.
that makes two of us! Maybe you have the wrong thread?

Nice to meet you SJR. <thumbs up>
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,166
1,797
113
#8
Predidente a friend of mine told me that he doesn't speak to people like by speaking with the person voice. I am confussed now.
I suspect if you ask most people who say they've heard God speak to them about it, most of them would not say they heard an audible voice. But a few may.


God certainly can communicate this way. Doesn't the Bible show us this? He did with the people of Israel, Moses, and Elijah heard a 'still small voice.' There are also prophets who heard God speak in visions. And there are those who have heard angelic voices.
 
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StoneThrower

Guest
#9
Does God literally speak to us?

Do you ask or expect God to audibly speak to you? If so, does the communication have sound?

~Deb
God speaks to us through reading his word and the preaching of the word, never in audible voices. Can God put a tought in your head/heart to do something yes.

There are so many reasons why believing the Mircalious gifts are in effect today is wrong.
I would encourage you to listen to the presentations from the Strange Fire Conference. I've wrote a lot on this but dont take my word.

https://www.tmstrangefire.org/


https://www.gty.org/resources/sermo...ts-meet-the-biblical-standard-nathan-busenitz
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
#10
Predidente a friend of mine told me that he doesn't speak to people like by speaking with the person voice. I am confussed now.
We are in a differnt economy in the Old Testament he did, but after coming to us in the flesh that has ceased as we got it straight from Him. Scripture says it contains everything we need for life and Godliness.
If you get a word from God and I get a word from God and they dont agree who is right?
Scripture dosent teach Super Christians that one believer is better than another. Deamons do pretend to be from God and do all kinds of things.

[video=youtube;ilt986tBLeo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilt986tBLeo[/video]
 
May 6, 2014
66
21
8
#11
I think (as far as hearing God speak to you in your heart) that it is a matter of learning how to discern God's voice from our head and demons who may try to influence us. There have been times when I have wanted something so badly, I practically convinced myself God was saying one thing when He was actually saying another, or nothing at all. There have also been times when my emotions have gotten in the way, and I only got half of what God said and the other half was not true. This is why I always ask God to clear my head and I put aside all of my thoughts and emotions first and lie still for a moment, then I ask for Him to speak to me. And He does. Sometimes I just want to hear His voice (I don't physically hear Him-as I said He speaks to me in my heart) and spend time with Him, and He never leaves me wanting. God is good all the time! ;)
 
N

Nocturnus

Guest
#12
God is always attempting to speak to us, but as we live in a world full of distractions and chaotic, constant cacophony it is easy to miss out on what he is saying. Sometimes it is a good thing to seek solitude to simply pray, to meditate on his word and perhaps try to find out how it applys to whatever is going on in your life. Sometimes you need to reflect upon what you've been going through and think about how it is part of the greater picture of God's flawless plan or if it is all simply drawing you away from him.

Even when you're not experiencing any trouble it is still a good practice to follow, though I've noticed that this is when we as humans least tend to seek him. Find the time or make the time, even if it means waking up an hour earlier than you normally would and locking yourself away in a closet or walking out into the middle of nowhere. Pray, listen, ponder, wonder, reflect, meditate, repeat. As few have already pointed out, sometimes he speaks in ways we didn't even imagine.
 
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dabodab

Guest
#13
God speaks to us through reading his word and the preaching of the word, never in audible voices. Can God put a tought in your head/heart to do something yes.

There are so many reasons why believing the Mircalious gifts are in effect today is wrong.
I would encourage you to listen to the presentations from the Strange Fire Conference. I've wrote a lot on this but dont take my word.

https://www.tmstrangefire.org/


https://www.gty.org/resources/sermo...ts-meet-the-biblical-standard-nathan-busenitz
Thank you, quite a cache of teaching there. I love John MacArthur, and when I was a new Christian in the early 80's he had a series on the book of Acts that taught me so much about the New Testament. While I really believe the gifts ARE for today, much respect for MacArthur and also Ligonier Ministries. I will keep your links and do some reading tonight I promise.

Gods voice I have never audibly heard, but His leading I have felt. It's really really really hard to get back to 'feeling' God's presence again. Understanding that our faith is not by feeling... That was the way I lived as a Christian before I walked away. so now I must learn to live by faith alone. It hasn't been easy because it's not familiar.

Thanks for the response and hook- up.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#14
God does speak to you in many ways, but mostly it that still small voice in your heart. I meant have you ever started to do something but everything in you said don't. That's God.
 
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didymos

Guest
#15
Pray for enlightenment of the Holy Spirit,
take up your Bible and read.
God will speak to you if your heart is open.
 
T

ThePottersClay

Guest
#16
Does it matter how HE speaks to us? And also... just because He does not speak audibly to you, does not mean he doesn't speak audibly to another... there's a very fine line here....

Who are we to question God? I think its God's prerogative as to how he answers each individual :)
 
T

ThePottersClay

Guest
#17
Dis so waar!

Pray for enlightenment of the Holy Spirit,
take up your Bible and read.
God will speak to you if your heart is open.
 
D

dabodab

Guest
#18
Does it matter how HE speaks to us? And also... just because He does not speak audibly to you, does not mean he doesn't speak audibly to another... there's a very fine line here....

Who are we to question God? I think its God's prerogative as to how he answers each individual :)
Hello there, thanks for your input!

I haven't really questioned God... but myself...and, of course, you, by asking for your own experience on the matter.

I have heard God speaking to me often this past week, by His small and great voice, as a result of listening to you all.

Thank you!
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,166
1,797
113
#19
God speaks to us through reading his word and the preaching of the word, never in audible voices. Can God put a tought in your head/heart to do something yes.
So if God puts a thought in your head, and you recognize it as God putting a thought in your head, what do you do with that situation? How could that not be God speaking to you.

As far as the Bible is concerned, it is clear that God has spoken with an audible voice before, and there is nothing to indicate that He might not do so again. Prophets in visions probably perceived God's voice at times as audible. Though I wouldn't assume they always did.

There are so many reasons why believing the Mircalious gifts are in effect today is wrong.
I would encourage you to listen to the presentations from the Strange Fire Conference. I've wrote a lot on this but dont take my word.
I listened to much of the conference but found it lacking in true Biblical teaching on the matter. The arguments seem to be based primarly on misinterpreting proof-text and also on extrabiblical teachings about scripture.

For example, a certain spin on a post-Reformation doctrine of 'sufficiency of scripture' was used in opposition to actual Biblical teaching on spiritual gifts. I Corinthians 12 teaches that spiritual gifts are indeed given to individuals in the body of Christ, including prophecy, the word of knowledge, and the word of wisdom. That's the teaching of scripture. The idea that God speaks only (or nearly only) through scripture is not something the Bible actually teaches. Yet this is part of the Strange Fire spin on 'sufficiency.' The speakers relied on their extra-biblical (and unbiblical) doctrine of 'sufficiency of scripture' instead of believing what scripture actually teaches.

II Timothy 3 was also misapplied. In the first chapter, Paul tells Timothy to stir up a spiritual gift that was in him by the laying on of Paul's hands. If we accepted the Strange Fire teaching on I Timothy 3, would we have to conclude the Timothy's gift ceased before he had a chance to stir it up? What could he have done with that gift in the time it took to read three chapters?

II Timothy 3 reminds Timothy of two sources of revelation, the word he'd heard, and the written scriptures he grew up reading. That would have been the Old Testament, not a modern complete copy of the Bible.


II Timothy
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.(NIV)/b]

Unless someone has an a priori prejudice against gifts of the Spirit, I don't see how he'd get some kind of cessationist doctrine out of this passage. This passage does NOT say that scripture is all that is given for the man of God to be thoroughly equipped. It's strange to me that some cessationists eisegete into the verse. It's a logical error.

If all scripture is given that the man of God may be fully equipped, that doesn't mean that all the man of God needs to be fully equipped is scripture.

Consider this logical analogy. The Roman soldier is given a short sword that he might be fully equipped. But take a group of naked soldiers and give them a sword and they won't be fully equipped, The fully armed soldier can be fully equipped if he is given a sword. The sword alone does not fully equip him. This is a good analogy since Philippians tells us that the sword of the spirit is te word of God.

Yet to be fully equipped, a man of God needs a number of things, including salvation, righteousness, faith, and a readiness to proclaim the Gospel of peace. All these things are taught on in the New Testament. We shouldn't read II Tmothy 3 and say we don't need the things the Bible tells us are needed because we have the Bible. That's a convoluted interpretation.

Cessationist would not conclude:
"We don't need love because we have the Bible."
"We don't need faith because we have the Bible."
"We don't need to abstain from sexual immorality because we have the Bible."
"We don't need water baptism because we have the Bible."

Everyone would disagree with that. But why would one conclude the following:
"We don't need the spiritual gifts the Bible encourage us to desire because we have the Bible."

That is just as nonsensical of an interpretation of the passage. And Paul, in his discussion of spiritual gifts that cessationists find objectionable, teaches that one gifted member of the body should not say to another "I have no need of thee." So how can we say members of the body operating in the gifts are not necessary?

It's also pretty obvious that neither Paul as the writer nor Timothy as the reader would have interpreted this passage to mean that once the canon was completed, certain spiritual gifts were no longer needed. They both would have had Old Testament scriptures in mind. If II Timothy 3 teaches cessationism, then wouldn't the gift of prophecy have ceased then, rendering II Timothy 4 and the book of Revelation not prophetically inspired?

I Corinthians 1:7 is pretty good evidence that Paul believed spiritual gifts, including the ones he would discuss in I Corinthians, would continue until Christ returns.

Scripture says it contains everything we need for life and Godliness.
I find it truly strange that cessationists so often say this. The actual verse doesn't even mention the scriptures as being what we need for life and godliness. It's a strange anachronistic interpretation to read that idea into the verse. Peter did not even have the complete New Testament canon. Neither did his readers. But they did have the message of the Gospel and the Spirit working in them, and they had everything they needed for life and godliness.

II Peter 1:3
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.


If you get a word from God and I get a word from God and they dont agree who is right?
This reminds me of the logical error of an argument from fear. Like the guy who went to the doctor and says, "The doctor says I have cancer. If I had cancer, that would be scarey. So therefore I do not have cancer." His discomfort and fear over the idea of cancer have nothing to do with whether he has it.

If it is scarey or uncomfortable to imagine yourself in a situation where two people claim to have contradictory words from God, that does not disprove the Biblical teaching that the Spirit gives gifts like prophecy and the word of knowledge and that God communicates through dreams and visions.

We all agree that some first century Christians operated in these gifts. It was potentially possible that someone could claim God wanted one thing, and for someone else to argue that God wanted another. People still debate whether it was God's will for Paul to go to Jerusalem because of the brethren who warned him 'through the spirit' or 'through the Spirit'. The Thessalonians had probably heard some wacko end times teachings or prophecies. Yet Paul told them not to despise prophesyings.

The face that two people could claim to receive conflicting revelation does not mean that no Christians in the first century received genuine revelation. If God put early Christians in a situation where they actually had to develop a kind of spiritual maturity and reliance on Him to discern who really had heard Him, is it so outlandish to think that He would do the same for us? in some ways, we may have an advantage over some believers, especially those living far from the apostles, because we have the Bible.

Scripture dosent teach Super Christians that one believer is better than another.
The least among us shall be the greatest of all. And the one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, that the church may be edified.

Deamons do pretend to be from God and do all kinds of things.
And Jesus referred to casting out demons as a miracle. If miracles were withdrawn, then no one would be able to cast out demons. Why would God leave the demons roaming around with all kinds of power, but withdraw the power that the New Testament teaches that He has given to the church? I don't see how such an idea is consistent at all with the teaching of the New Testament on the issue.
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
#20
So if God puts a thought in your head, and you recognize it as God putting a thought in your head, what do you do with that situation? How could that not be God speaking to you.

As far as the Bible is concerned, it is clear that God has spoken with an audible voice before, and there is nothing to indicate that He might not do so again. Prophets in visions probably perceived God's voice at times as audible. Though I wouldn't assume they always did.



I listened too much of the conference but found it lacking in true Biblical teaching on the matter. The arguments seem to be based primarily on misinterpreting proof-text and also on extra biblical teachings about scripture.

For example, a certain spin on a post-Reformation doctrine of 'sufficiency of scripture' was used in opposition to actual Biblical teaching on spiritual gifts. I Corinthians 12 teaches that spiritual gifts are indeed given to individuals in the body of Christ, including prophecy, the word of knowledge, and the word of wisdom. That's the teaching of scripture. The idea that God speaks only (or nearly only) through scripture is not something the Bible actually teaches. Yet this is part of the Strange Fire spin on 'sufficiency.' The speakers relied on their extra-biblical (and unbiblical) doctrine of 'sufficiency of scripture' instead of believing what scripture actually teaches.

II Timothy 3 was also misapplied. In the first chapter, Paul tells Timothy to stir up a spiritual gift that was in him by the laying on of Paul's hands. If we accepted the Strange Fire teaching on I Timothy 3, would we have to conclude the Timothy's gift ceased before he had a chance to stir it up? What could he have done with that gift in the time it took to read three chapters?

II Timothy 3 reminds Timothy of two sources of revelation, the word he'd heard, and the written scriptures he grew up reading. That would have been the Old Testament, not a modern complete copy of the Bible.


II Timothy
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.(NIV)/b]

Unless someone has an a priori prejudice against gifts of the Spirit, I don't see how he'd get some kind of cessationist doctrine out of this passage. This passage does NOT say that scripture is all that is given for the man of God to be thoroughly equipped. It's strange to me that some cessationists eisegete into the verse. It's a logical error.

If all scripture is given that the man of God may be fully equipped, that doesn't mean that all the man of God needs to be fully equipped is scripture.

Consider this logical analogy. The Roman soldier is given a short sword that he might be fully equipped. But take a group of naked soldiers and give them a sword and they won't be fully equipped, the fully armed soldier can be fully equipped if he is given a sword. The sword alone does not fully equip him. This is a good analogy since Philippians tells us that the sword of the spirit is the word of God.

Yet to be fully equipped, a man of God needs a number of things, including salvation, righteousness, faith, and a readiness to proclaim the Gospel of peace. All these things are taught on in the New Testament. We shouldn't read II Timothy 3 and say we don't need the things the Bible tells us are needed because we have the Bible. That's a convoluted interpretation.

Cessationist would not conclude:
"We don't need love because we have the Bible."
"We don't need faith because we have the Bible."
"We don't need to abstain from sexual immorality because we have the Bible."
"We don't need water baptism because we have the Bible."

Everyone would disagree with that. But why would one conclude the following:
"We don't need the spiritual gifts the Bible encourage us to desire because we have the Bible."

That is just as nonsensical of an interpretation of the passage. And Paul, in his discussion of spiritual gifts that cessationists find objectionable, teaches that one gifted member of the body should not say to another "I have no need of thee." So how can we say members of the body operating in the gifts are not necessary?

It's also pretty obvious that neither Paul as the writer nor Timothy as the reader would have interpreted this passage to mean that once the canon was completed, certain spiritual gifts were no longer needed. They both would have had Old Testament scriptures in mind. If II Timothy 3 teaches cessationism, then wouldn't the gift of prophecy have ceased then, rendering II Timothy 4 and the book of Revelation not prophetically inspired?

I Corinthians 1:7 is pretty good evidence that Paul believed spiritual gifts, including the ones he would discuss in I Corinthians, would continue until Christ returns.



I find it truly strange that cessationists so often say this. The actual verse doesn't even mention the scriptures as being what we need for life and godliness. It's a strange anachronistic interpretation to read that idea into the verse. Peter did not even have the complete New Testament canon. Neither did his readers. But they did have the message of the Gospel and the Spirit working in them, and they had everything they needed for life and godliness.

II Peter 1:3
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.



This reminds me of the logical error of an argument from fear. Like the guy who went to the doctor and says, "The doctor says I have cancer. If I had cancer, that would be scary. So therefore I do not have cancer." His discomfort and fear over the idea of cancer have nothing to do with whether he has it.

If it is scary or uncomfortable to imagine yourself in a situation where two people claim to have contradictory words from God, that does not disprove the Biblical teaching that the Spirit gives gifts like prophecy and the word of knowledge and that God communicates through dreams and visions.

We all agree that some first century Christians operated in these gifts. It was potentially possible that someone could claim God wanted one thing, and for someone else to argue that God wanted another. People still debate whether it was God's will for Paul to go to Jerusalem because of the brethren who warned him 'through the spirit' or 'through the Spirit'. The Thessalonians had probably heard some wacko end time’s teachings or prophecies. Yet Paul told them not to despise prophesying’s.

The face that two people could claim to receive conflicting revelation does not mean that no Christians in the first century received genuine revelation. If God put early Christians in a situation where they actually had to develop a kind of spiritual maturity and reliance on Him to discern who really had heard Him is it so outlandish to think that He would do the same for us? In some ways, we may have an advantage over some believers, especially those living far from the apostles, because we have the Bible.



The least among us shall be the greatest of all. And the one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, that the church may be edified.



And Jesus referred to casting out demons as a miracle. If miracles were withdrawn, then no one would be able to cast out demons. Why would God leave the demons roaming around with all kinds of power, but withdraw the power that the New Testament teaches that He has given to the church? I don't see how such an idea is consistent at all with the teaching of the New Testament on the issue.


Hi,
I have to disagree with you, if you look at the history of Pentecostalism, its recent and not theological sound it’s filled with error and really, really bad theology. If you’re not willing to do the hard work and take a serious look at it then we have nothing to discuss and I am ok with that too.

So if God puts a thought in your head, and you recognize it as God putting a thought in your head, what do you do with that situation? How could that not be God speaking to you..

The Bible says test the spirits so the first thing you need to figure out was it bad pizza the night before, false guilt or just a crazy hunch, or your emotions. I think you asked and answered your own question and audible voice is different from a nudging.

and there is nothing to indicate that He might not do so again. .
God’s word tells us just the opposite that scripture is sufficient, the cannon is closed and we see that the gifts had stopped as Paul couldn’t heal Timothy’s stomach issues and there was another he couldn’t heal. If a man in a white suit could heal, then MR Hin is a monster for not going to the hospital and doing so he would also have no need for glasses. You can go one step further and look at history and see no mention of it either until the 19th century. Then there is the reason why it started in the first place was to verify the ministry of the apostles and Christ after that there was no need for it. Just like today there is no reason for it. By the time Timothy was written the gifts had already ceased.

If all scripture is given that the man of God may be fully equipped, that doesn't mean that all the man of God needs to be fully equipped is scripture.

That strikes me as pretzel logic, and an argument from silence, fully equipped means fully equipped. If you need something other to complete a task you’re not fully equipped.

This argument is even more lacking
Cessationist would not conclude:
"We don't need love because we have the Bible."
"We don't need faith because we have the Bible."
"We don't need to abstain from sexual immorality because we have the Bible."
"We don't need water baptism because we have the Bible."

You are saying we deny the Holy Spirit being in the believer at the time of salvation and saying all gifts when the miraculous gifts are the only ones being disputed.

Peter did not even have the complete New Testament canon. Neither did his readers.

How do you know? Epistles were circulated from church to church and other than what John wrote in the 90"s they would of had everything else.

then no one would be able to cast out demons. Why would God leave the demons roaming around with all kinds of power, but withdraw the power that the New Testament teaches that He has given to the church?

That’s correct we are not to mess with demons and no one can cast them out. I am not saying God doesn’t remove them because of prayer because he does. Satin has dominion over this world at present it’s for a time. When he tempted Christ in Matthew 4:1-11 and offered him the world it was his to give.

Your fully vested I get it, but I would encourage you to study American church history, look at the character of men like Perrin and others.

I wish I could add an attachment without having to start a new thread I could save you some leg work or the origins of the movement. You have to admit the unbalanced worship of the Holy Spirit, the emotionalism, and the stigma, due to all the false teachers that come out of that camp to exploit people, not to mention the twisted scripture.

I almost signed up to be a Sovering Grace pastor as there are a lot of good things like being reformed and the program for it but I couldnt do it because of the error of the gifts that they teach.