Questions to Sabbathkeepers concerning Colossians 2:16-17

[sparkman]

Please note that these questions are directed toward Saturday Sabbatarians who claim that Saturday Sabbath keeping is required of all Christians. It is not directed toward those who choose to observe Saturday to God, without judging other Christians who attend church on Sunday or another day of the week.

Here's the question..it relates to this scripture:

Colossians 2:16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

If you believe this scripture is teaching that Saturday Sabbath keeping is required of all Christians, I have two questions:

1. Do you also keep the festivals and new moons? If not, why? This scripture seems to lump the Sabbath day, festivals, and new moons together. Assuming that you use this Scripture to teach that Sabbath keeping is required of Christians, you must also keep the festivals and new moons too, in order to be consistent.

2. If you do observe the festivals and new moons along with the weekly Sabbath, why did John call the festivals "the Jewish Passover", etc? The following scriptures apply in this regard:

John 11:55 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, many went up from the country to Jerusalem for their ceremonial cleansing before the Passover.

John 2:13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6:4 The Jewish Passover Festival was near.

This is one of the questions which caused me a great deal of concern as a former Sabbath keeper. The weekly and annual Sabbaths stand and fall together, and looking at John's remarks calling the Passover "the Jewish Passover", I don't get the impression that the annual Sabbaths were required of Christians.

Regards,

Robert Sparkman

 

[Scuba]

Please note that these questions are directed toward Saturday Sabbatarians who claim that Saturday Sabbath keeping is required of all Christians. It is not directed toward those who choose to observe Saturday to God, without judging other Christians who attend church on Sunday or another day of the week.

Here's the question..it relates to this scripture:

Colossians 2:16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

If you believe this scripture is teaching that Saturday Sabbath keeping is required of all Christians, I have two questions:

1. Do you also keep the festivals and new moons? If not, why? This scripture seems to lump the Sabbath day, festivals, and new moons together. Assuming that you use this Scripture to teach that Sabbath keeping is required of Christians, you must also keep the festivals and new moons too, in order to be consistent.

2. If you do observe the festivals and new moons along with the weekly Sabbath, why did John call the festivals "the Jewish Passover", etc? The following scriptures apply in this regard:

John 11:55 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, many went up from the country to Jerusalem for their ceremonial cleansing before the Passover.

John 2:13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6:4 The Jewish Passover Festival was near.

This is one of the questions which caused me a great deal of concern as a former Sabbath keeper. The weekly and annual Sabbaths stand and fall together, and looking at John's remarks calling the Passover "the Jewish Passover", I don't get the impression that the annual Sabbaths were required of Christians.

Regards,

Robert Sparkman

Lets take a closer look at the context of Colossians 2. The context of Colossians 2 speaks of how the death of Jesus brings forgiveness of sin and the cancellation of our sin debt so none of these things in Colossians 2:16 and 17 are to be done with a meritorious mindset. You are not trying to earn salvation or forgiveness so don't let anyone judge you when you follow the ways of God. Jesus paid our sin debt at the cross because we couldn't.

Colossians 2:13-17 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

This list of foods, drinks, festivals, new moons and sabbaths all have to do with God dealing with sin and are all part of the sacrificial system to make atonement for sin under the Old Covenant.

Ezekiel 45:17 It shall be the prince’s part to provide the burnt offerings, the grain offerings and the drink offerings, at the feasts, on the new moons and on the sabbaths, at all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel; he shall provide the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering and the peace offerings, to make atonement for the house of Israel.”

What Jesus nailed to the cross was our sin debt and the decrees that our debt brought against us. These decrees declared us guilty and condemned us before God. Doing away with our debt and the guilt disarmed the rulers and authorities because our record has been wiped clean leaving nothing they could hold over our heads.

1 Peter 2:24 Christ himself carried our sins in his body to the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness. It is by his wounds that you have been healed.

Jesus didn't nail God's Law to the cross, He nailed our sin debt to the cross. The Law is not sin.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not!

The life and death of Jesus, as our Passover Lamb, fulfilled all the shadows pertaining to the sin offering so now we no longer need to kill a lamb for our sins. So don't let anyone judge you in food offerings and drink offerings or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths because in Christ, that old way of dealing with sin and making us acceptable before God is done away with in Christ. The seventh day of creation is not part of the sacrificial system.

 

[2Thewaters]

Please note that these questions are directed toward Saturday Sabbatarians who claim that Saturday Sabbath keeping is required of all Christians. ...

I claim no such thing

The Bible does

i did not write the Bible

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[2Thewaters]

Now let me ask you something
ppe day worshippers say the day was changed
show me where it was changed?
do you know?


I know

I will put it up after you answer it

and then

why do you listen to the pope instead of the Bible?

Just interested.

 

[2Thewaters]

When they asked Jesus a rediculous queston
Jesus asked a question back

if you answer my question I will answer yours


Do you believe your Bible is the word of God?

 

[JaumeJ]

Almosst all whom I know here in the forum who love to follow the Ten Commandments as best they are able are very well aware of this teaching cited, and it is for this very reason, commandment aside, their minds are boggled by those who have a caniption fit when the Seventh Day is preferred over the first day of the week as the day set aside by the Father. You may call any day you wish the Sabbath providing your conscience is clear in the sight of Yahweh, but constantly calling those of the faith of Abraham as being wrong or Sabbathkeepers is judging another man's servant. No one of those who love the Seventh Day as from the Father are condemning the others who have chosen to have their Sabbath on the first day, but it seems odd. That is all. Do not worry Sunday Sabbathkeepers, you are not being judged, so relax.

 

[Hashe]

Do not worry Sunday Sabbathkeepers, you are not being judged, so relax.

You must have a different bible to mine, does yours not have Gal 3:10?

 

[JaumeJ]

There is a lot more to the Word than your numbered verse cited. "Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

If this single verse stood upon were written alone on my heart, then the two great laws would not be in effect. Please think before replying. I have not stated ever that I am under the law as you would like to hear, but it is not a burden to follow those two great laws to the best of my given ability from above, for in so observing, I observe all of the law, living in the grace of Yahweh by the Blood of His Lamb, Yeshua.


QUOTE=Hashe;1591091]You must have a different bible to mine, does yours not have Gal 3:10?[/QUOTE]

 

[Hashe]

You're right that Gal 3:10 is just one verse.
But Paul goes on in Gal 4:10-11. If people observe special days then Paul has laboured over them and shared the gospel with them for nothing.

 

[JaumeJ]

Nothing I have posted, to which you are replying, conflicts with any of your single line thoughts and quotes. No one who oberves the Sabbath of the Lord is judging you, so again I advise, relax. If Yeshua has come to me in this manner, it is not for you to fault, to complain or to correct, for it is from the Lord, as you probably call Him, Jesus, the Same.

Almosst all whom I know here in the forum who love to follow the Ten Commandments as best they are able are very well aware of this teaching cited, and it is for this very reason, commandment aside, their minds are boggled by those who have a caniption fit when the Seventh Day is preferred over the first day of the week as the day set aside by the Father. You may call any day you wish the Sabbath providing your conscience is clear in the sight of Yahweh, but constantly calling those of the faith of Abraham as being wrong or Sabbathkeepers is judging another man's servant. No one of those who love the Seventh Day as from the Father are condemning the others who have chosen to have their Sabbath on the first day, but it seems odd. That is all. Do not worry Sunday Sabbathkeepers, you are not being judged, so relax.

There is a lot more to the Word than your numbered verse cited. "Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

If this single verse stood upon were written alone on my heart, then the two great laws would not be in effect. Please think before replying. I have not stated ever that I am under the law as you would like to hear, but it is not a burden to follow those two great laws to the best of my given ability from above, for in so observing, I observe all of the law, living in the grace of Yahweh by the Blood of His Lamb, Yeshua.


QUOTE=Hashe;1591091]You must have a different bible to mine, does yours not have Gal 3:10?

[/QUOTE]

You're right that Gal 3:10 is just one verse.
But Paul goes on in Gal 4:10-11. If people observe special days then Paul has laboured over them and shared the gospel with them for nothing.

 

[Hashe]

So basically you get truth straight from Jesus?

 

[JaumeJ]

Anyone who believes the Word receives all truth from Jesus, for He is the Word. I believe if you practice this, you do also, however I see you are limiting yourself, and your understanding to lines from Galatians without giving thought to the Old Testament, and the Evangelists' accounts of Yeshua. If you regard Paul's writings to specific groups of people at his time, you will also find, nothing I have posted conflicts with his teachings. Does not Paul teach us the law is holy? Does not Paul teach us the only gospel is the one delivered by Yeshua? Love contains all of the laws that count, and to do one's best to obey them all is hardly being under the law since he lives in the grace of Yeshua without fear of the curse of the law. You see it is the curse of the law that was abolished, not the law. Please read what Jesus, Yeshua says about the law, for it is not abolished. Also anyone who has truly known the Lord does not wish to deliberately break any of the laws for in so doing is sin. There is no sin without breaking a law. You cannot say man is sinless after knowing Yeshua, Jesus, but you are able to tell me his sin is no longer imputed to him. If you are happy thinking Jesus wants you to forget His laws, perhaps this is alright for you. It is not good for me. I believe you should do your best to obey all the commandments out of love for the Father Who sent His Only Begotten Son to die on the cross just for you, and for me,and for all who call upon Him in Spirit and Truth, amen.

So basically you get truth straight from Jesus?

 

[sparkman]

When they asked Jesus a rediculous queston
Jesus asked a question back

if you answer my question I will answer yours


Do you believe your Bible is the word of God?

Of course I do. The Bible is the inspired word of God.

 

[sparkman]

Almosst all whom I know here in the forum who love to follow the Ten Commandments as best they are able are very well aware of this teaching cited, and it is for this very reason, commandment aside, their minds are boggled by those who have a caniption fit when the Seventh Day is preferred over the first day of the week as the day set aside by the Father. You may call any day you wish the Sabbath providing your conscience is clear in the sight of Yahweh, but constantly calling those of the faith of Abraham as being wrong or Sabbathkeepers is judging another man's servant. No one of those who love the Seventh Day as from the Father are condemning the others who have chosen to have their Sabbath on the first day, but it seems odd. That is all. Do not worry Sunday Sabbathkeepers, you are not being judged, so relax.

Read the above post by 21thewaters. He definitely IS saying that Sunday attending Christians are in sin and unsaved.

I agree with you...Romans 14 gives freedom to observe any day. However the judaizers believe it is part of the works which merit their salvation.

 

[Scuba]

You must have a different bible to mine, does yours not have Gal 3:10?

The problem that many people have is that they view the Law of God in one dimension when in fact it's has two dimensions. The Law can be use lawfully or unlawfully.

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully.

If you use the Law as a means to have right standing with God you are using the Law unlawfully but if you use the Law as a means to express godly love you are using it lawfully. Jesus is the end of the Law as a means to have right standing with God.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Jesus is the end of the Law as a means you have right standing with God but He is not the end of the Law as a means to express godly love.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,”and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

When you use the Law as a means to have right standing with God you draw your value and self worth by how well you keep the Law. When you use the Law as the means to evaluate one's position with God you become Judgmental and critical of others. When you use the Law as a means to evaluate your right standing with God you have fallen from grace.

This what all the debates are about. Why are you obeying the Law? Is it because you love God or are you trying to earn your way into the kingdom of God.

If we can truly understand that God loves us even while we were sinning and the He accepts us a righteous in Christ our day to day short falls won't utterly destroy our faith and relationship with God.

The grace of God protects our relationship with His because our relationship is the most important thing to God. If you love God and you are walking in love to the best of God's definition of love you can't out sin the grace of God.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.

The Law of of God defines righteousness but it also defines godly love. Christ is our righteousness so we can love free of guilt and shame and in Christ we can boldly come into the presence of God without fear. Now go, and by faith love others the way God defines loves us, in this we will be complete.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Jesus in us, loving through us by how God defines love is the new creation.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

 

[JaumeJ]

"Almost all" is a very important introductory phrase making any rebuttal moot. My reply stands with almost all. Yahweh bless you and keep you. Be careful using the word, judaizers, for the ultimate Jew is the King of the Jews, Himself, Yeshua. My own true desire is to be as much like He as is given in my power to be. The pivotal word here is "given," not "my power." There are many who insist Sunday is the only Sabath who are constantly accusing those who choose to obey the Commandments. It is ironic because it makes me wonder where they ever got the idea of a Sabbath of the Lord in the first place.

Read the above post by 21thewaters. He definitely IS saying that Sunday attending Christians are in sin and unsaved.

I agree with you...Romans 14 gives freedom to observe any day. However the judaizers believe it is part of the works which merit their salvation.