Sunday as the Lord's day...

[mustaphadrink]

The most important principle when studying the Bible is to use the Bible to interpret the verses and not use the verses to interpret the Bible. Every verse in the Bible fits like a glove. If you find a verse that is not fitting you must study the history of that verse and how it was translated. You must also be willing to let God's word be true and every man a liar. If the words, "day of the week" are translated both as "week" or "Sabbath" you must translate the verse to make sense and fit with all of Scripture. Too many people are stuck on Sunday worship either because of pride or willfully following the Beast or it's image because from Genesis to Revelation the seventh day has always been the Lord's day, not Sunday. As a matter of fact, Jesus is called, Lord of the Sabbath and that's not Sunday.

Now let me say something else. You can set aside any day of the week you want and call it holy for sacred assembly the only problem is you are following yourself, not God. We can gather for fellowship seven days a week and that would be awesome but we can't celebrate the Sabbath seven days a week because we would go broke. Some will tell you that we should celebrate Sabbath seven days a week because we rest in Jesus. But if you read the commandment it says, six days is for work but the seventh day is for rest. If you, your sons and daughters, your servants, the strangers and your working animals choose to rest seven days a week you are outside of the will of God.

A great post Scuba and so true. Just to add to what you have said I was reading Derek Prince's book "Spiritual Warfare" and one verse he quoted stood out to me. it was Romans 10:4 using the NAS. It says "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

NOT as many believe "Christ is the end of the law..." Christ DID NOT do away with the law per se. He did away with it for righteousness. The Law is there to be obeyed (Sabbath) but not to build our righteousness before Christ for the simple reason we have no righteousness. We can only claim the righteousness of Christ.

To quote what Derek said..." Christ is not the end of the law as part of God's word, or as part of the history of Israel, or on any other aspect. He is the end of the law as a means to achieve righteousness with God. We are not required to keep the Law in order to be righteous."

He didn't say...." We are not required to keep the Law." On that verse alone the Sundayites do not have a leg to stand on.

At the same time I have to wonder why the Sundayites believe thou shalt not murder is still in place if keeping the Sabbath isn't. It seems to me that tradition has overtaken the Word of God.

 

[Scuba]

A great post Scuba and so true. Just to add to what you have said I was reading Derek Prince's book "Spiritual Warfare" and one verse he quoted stood out to me. it was Romans 10:4 using the NAS. It says "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

NOT as many believe "Christ is the end of the law..." Christ DID NOT do away with the law per se. He did away with it for righteousness. The Law is there to be obeyed (Sabbath) but not to build our righteousness before Christ for the simple reason we have no righteousness. We can only claim the righteousness of Christ.

To quote what Derek said..." Christ is not the end of the law as part of God's word, or as part of the history of Israel, or on any other aspect. He is the end of the law as a means to achieve righteousness with God. We are not required to keep the Law in order to be righteous."

He didn't say...." We are not required to keep the Law." On that verse alone the Sundayites do not have a leg to stand on.

At the same time I have to wonder why the Sundayites believe thou shalt not murder is still in place if keeping the Sabbath isn't. It seems to me that tradition has overtaken the Word of God.

Thanks for the encouragement. When people truly give their life to the Lord and study with an open heart to learn we should all come to the same conclusion or at least very close. Check out this thread... http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94625-law-good-when-its-used-lawfully.html#post1591259

 

[mustaphadrink]

Thanks for the encouragement. When people truly give their life to the Lord and study with an open heart to learn we should all come to the same conclusion or at least very close. Check out this thread... http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-good-when-its-used-lawfully.html#post1591259

What an awe inspiring comment "You can't out sin the grace of God." I am going to feed on that for a long time.

 

[JaumeJ]

The OP refers to which day of the week is sthe Lord's Sabbath, not to who has faith.

This subject emerges again and again because those who observe the Seventh Day and share they do are constantly uinder attack. One of the favorite attacks is using the word, judaizer, Yeshua is King of the Jews, and a Jew.

I observe the Seventh Day because it is the order of cration and it is called the Sabbath of the Lord as opposed to several other Sabbaths mentioned and described in the Word.

Another reason I observe the Sabbath, that is the Sabbath of the Lord, on the Seventh Day is quite simple. I believe it is akin to when the lion will lie down with the lamb, and I, for one, do not wish to mess with the order of things as taught by Yeshua.

This is a great thread with a very honest and good intent, I ask to be excused for not having seen it before my post on the oral tradition of the Sunday Sabbath. Thank you, and Yahweh bless all who honor Him, amen.

Show wher you faith is. In a day, or the cross of Christ. Romans 14.

 

[iamsoandso]

With the majority of the world honoring Sunday as the Lord's there must be dozens of verses to support this belief.

Can anyone here show me just one verse that says Sunday is Lord's day or that the seventh day Sabbath was changed to Sunday, first day? Just one!

You will not find one because there are none. What a powerful testimony of Sunday observance being a doctrine and tradition of man.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?

Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

Now lets see what the Bible says about the seventh day being the Lord's day.

Leviticus 23:3 You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of complete rest, an official day for sacred assembly. It is the Lord's Sabbath day, and it must be observed wherever you live.

Exodus 20:1 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

Deuteronomy 5:14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

Jesus is even called, Lord of the Sabbath, which makes the seventh day Sabbath the Lord's day.

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
Jesus didn't have tell us which day was the Sabbath nor did He have to command anyone to honor it because they already were.

Did the Apostles change the day to Sunday? No they did not. Paul gather every Sabbath years after the resurrection of Jesus. At one point the Gentiles begged Paul to teach them again the next Sabbath. Again, keep in mind that this was years after the resurrection of Jesus.

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered together in sacred assembly to hear the word of God.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

If the seventh day was changed to the first day this would have been a perfect opportunity for Paul to say something, but he didn't. Why wait a whole week to teach the Gentiles again? If Sunday was the new day for sacred assembly Paul could have just told the Gentiles to come back the next day, which would have been Sunday? But he didn't. Also, notice how the Gentiles called the seventh day, the Sabbath. Remember, this was years after Jesus' resurrection.

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

The Gentiles must of went out witnessing and inviting people to Sabbath fellowship because the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

The fact that all these Gentiles were gathering on the Sabbath day, to hear the word of God, made the Jews mad.

Acts 13:44-45 On the next Sabbath day, almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. When the Jews saw the multitues, they became very jealous and began to say evil things against what Paul was saying.

Why would the Jews get mad at the fact the Gentiles were gathering on the Sabbath? Probably because they refused to accept the fact that the Sabbath was made for all mankind, not just the Jews.

Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for mankind".

Paul gathered in sacred assembly with the church at Corinth every Sabbath for a year and a half before leaving for his next journey. That alone is 78 Sabbaths and again keep in mind how this was years after Jesus' resurrection.

Acts 18:4 And Paul reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Acts 18:11 And Paul continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

Jesus gave a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem, which was to take place forty years after His resurrection, and He was still confirming the Sabbath. Listen.

Matthew 24:19-21 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Prior to Paul's conversion he would, on every Sabbath, go from one synagogue after another pulling early believers out of their assembly to beat them and imprison them.

Acts 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem.

Acts 22:19 And I said, ‘Lord, they themselves know that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in you.

The followers of Jesus even kept the Sabbath after Jesus died.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

If Jesus did away with the Sabbath or changed it to another day His followers surely would have known this. Honoring the seventh day Sabbath is even mentioned as being part of the new heavens and the new earth.

Isaiah 66:22-23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Now show me where the Bible says Sunday is the Lord's day.

in your second paragraph you ask how for someone to show proof that the "lords day",Sunday was changed to "Saturday". sabbath. Did it ever occur to you that Sunday,the lords day(1st day of the week) is still that day? And Monday,the 2nd day is still the 2nd day?,,then the 3rd,and the 4th,then the 5th? then the 6th?,,,,and then the 7th(the sabbath)?,,,with such great admiration for the 7th day(sabbath),why is it that the lords day,(the 1rst,Sunday) is so easily rejected when in gladness the lord gave us the 7th day,and added many more days(eternity) and this is symbolized by the (1st)?,,,At some point shouldn't we if we deduce in our minds that if the 7th has significant spiritual meaning,the 1st may also?,,what does the 2nd,3rd and 4th,ect. mean?,,,the one denoted for you is the "beginning point",,work your self through all seven,,,,

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

theologically speaking -every day- belongs to the lord...he created them -all-

jesus is lord of the sabbath -and- he is lord of every other day...so the single fact that jesus is lord of the sabbath does not prove that the sabbath is 'the lord's day'...since -every- day is his...

but the term 'the lord's day' was used by early christians to refer to a particular day...the bible doesn't identify which day that is...but since 'the lord's day' is mentioned in revelation it is self evident that the early christians would have known it meant...

so the task is to determine which day of the week the early church by convention would have referred to as 'the lord's day'...that question is answered by multiple early christian writings that indicate what day early christians would have thought of when they heard the term 'the lord's day'...namely the first day of the week...the day of christ's resurrection... the most important example is the letter from ignatius of antioch to the magnesian church...which i can quote if anyone is interested...

to summarize...it is clear from scripture that every day belongs to the lord...but there was one particular day that the early church referred to as 'the lord's day'...and that day was sunday...not the saturday sabbath...

however...there was one -pagan- god that was considered to be lord -only- of saturday...namely chiun...also called remphan...an idol deity representing the planet saturn...

so if you follow a 'lord' who is only lord of the sabbath to the exclusion of all other days...then that 'lord' would be chiun...not christ...

chiun worship originated in -babylon- by the way...go figure...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I don't believe this is God's world. The Bible clearly says Satan is the god of this world. One day this world will once again be God's domain and we, as God's people, will inherit the earth. This is why Jesus told us to pray that God's will would be done on earth as it is in heaven. That means God's will is not being done right now on earth as it is in heaven. The fact that this world is not God's domain when we honor the things of God we will be persecuted. Now I'm saying we will be persecute for being religious. Keeping the seventh day holy, in this day and age, is like wearing an American flag in Iraq. You will stick out and be persecuted because of the flag, the same goes for the things of God.

if you don't believe this is God's world...then you don't believe the bible...

psalm 24:1..."The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein."
1 corinthians 10:26..."For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof."

and actually obsessing over sabbath keeping is more like wearing a swastika in israel...you can claim all you want that you are just honoring an ancient sign of blessing...but everyone around knows it is really just a sign of your hate and desire to persecute...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Psa 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.


now I have two questions

1. Who wrote that verse on paper?

2. What day did David worship on?

do you get it?

Someone TWISTED THAT VERSE

for certainly DAVID NEVER EVER kept sunday they would have stoned him

so sunday -isn't- a day God had made? wow and here i thought God was the one who created light and evening and morning for the first day...like it says in genesis 1... it's a good thing we have you remphanizers around to correct the bible...

so it would have been wrong to sing a psalm of praise on a sunday? and david would have had nothing to do with it? wow and here i trusted these verses...

2 chronicles 8:14..."Now according to the ordinance of his father David, he appointed the divisions of the priests for their service, and the Levites for their duties of praise and ministering before the priests according to the daily rule, and the gatekeepers by their divisions at every gate; for David the man of God had so commanded."
psalm 145:2..."Every day I will bless You, And I will praise Your name forever and ever."

again it's a good thing we have you remphanizers around to keep us from falling for all that stuff the bible says...


maybe -you- would have stoned david...but that is just your hatred and your impulse to persecute coming out...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

This subject emerges again and again because those who observe the Seventh Day and share they do are constantly uinder attack.

oh come on...stop with the victim act already...it is getting less and less believable the more the sabbath keepers post...

the sabbath keepers do more attacking than virtually anyone else on this forum! every day there is at least one new thread dedicated to condemning those who don't keep the sabbath...it's always 'not observing the sabbath is a sin' or 'worshipping on sunday is the mark of the beast' or 'sunday keepers follow the pope' or 'we follow the whole bible and you do not' and so on over and over ad nauseum...

and when someone dares to object to the constant preaching of condemnation...then we have to watch the sabbath keepers indulge in persecutory delusions because of the opposition that -they themselves provoked-!

if you are tired of the fights over the sabbath then tell your fellow sabbath keepers to -stop picking fights-!

 

[JaumeJ]

I am the first to be aware that not all attack those who observe the Seventh Day, but I can affirm the count of those who do are at a much higher ratio than those who may attack those who have changed the Seventh Day to the first day of the week of creation. Count them in the posts.

Now, I am never a victim, so do not portray my post as if I am attempting to paint myself so. That is a personal "attack." Again, count and tally, and you will be aware of that truth.

oh come on...stop with the victim act already...it is getting less and less believable the more the sabbath keepers post...

the sabbath keepers do more attacking than virtually anyone else on this forum! every day there is at least one new thread dedicated to condemning those who don't keep the sabbath...it's always 'not observing the sabbath is a sin' or 'worshipping on sunday is the mark of the beast' or 'sunday keepers follow the pope' or 'we follow the whole bible and you do not' and so on over and over ad nauseum...

and when someone dares to object to the constant preaching of condemnation...then we have to watch the sabbath keepers indulge in persecutory delusions because of the opposition that -they themselves provoked-!

if you are tired of the fights over the sabbath then tell your fellow sabbath keepers to -stop picking fights-!

 

[Scuba]

if you don't believe this is God's world...then you don't believe the bible...

psalm 24:1..."The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein."
1 corinthians 10:26..."For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof."

and actually obsessing over sabbath keeping is more like wearing a swastika in israel...you can claim all you want that you are just honoring an ancient sign of blessing...but everyone around knows it is really just a sign of your hate and desire to persecute...

You still don't get it. You remind me of Nicodemus when Jesus was trying to talk to him about being born again. Do you really think I was referring to the trees, rocks, flowers and fish when I said, I don't believe this is God's world?

Anyone who still feels that the Law is bad then you are either deceived or lost in your carnal mind. Only the carnal mind is at enmity with the Law of God, not those who are Spirit filled.

 

[posthuman]

You still don't get it. You remind me of Nicodemus when Jesus was trying to talk to him about being born again. Do you really think I was referring to the trees, rocks, flowers and fish when I said, I don't believe this is God's world?

Anyone who still feels that the Law is bad then you are either deceived or lost in your carnal mind. Only the carnal mind is at enmity with the Law of God, not those who are Spirit filled.

it's funny, it sounds to me too, a little like nicodemus's question to mistake God's true rest with a ritual observance.

but nevermind that --
i was wondering what the objective difference between physical circumcision and calendar sabbath observance is. .
because:

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
(Galatians 5:1-6)

thoughts?

 

[ThePottersClay]

Exactly - I personally do not think a day in a week matters. Jesus came to fulfill the law. He BECAME the Sabbath,in him we find rest.

Show wher you faith is. In a day, or the cross of Christ. Romans 14.

 

[gotime]

theologically speaking -every day- belongs to the lord...he created them -all-

jesus is lord of the sabbath -and- he is lord of every other day...so the single fact that jesus is lord of the sabbath does not prove that the sabbath is 'the lord's day'...since -every- day is his...

but the term 'the lord's day' was used by early christians to refer to a particular day...the bible doesn't identify which day that is...but since 'the lord's day' is mentioned in revelation it is self evident that the early christians would have known it meant...

so the task is to determine which day of the week the early church by convention would have referred to as 'the lord's day'...that question is answered by multiple early christian writings that indicate what day early christians would have thought of when they heard the term 'the lord's day'...namely the first day of the week...the day of christ's resurrection... the most important example is the letter from ignatius of antioch to the magnesian church...which i can quote if anyone is interested...

to summarize...it is clear from scripture that every day belongs to the lord...but there was one particular day that the early church referred to as 'the lord's day'...and that day was sunday...not the saturday sabbath...

however...there was one -pagan- god that was considered to be lord -only- of saturday...namely chiun...also called remphan...an idol deity representing the planet saturn...

so if you follow a 'lord' who is only lord of the sabbath to the exclusion of all other days...then that 'lord' would be chiun...not christ...

chiun worship originated in -babylon- by the way...go figure...

The main problem here is that its all human reasoning. We do not go to man to interpret what the Lord's day is, but to God and His word.

Jesus said he is Lord of the Sabbath.

Lord = Jesus
day = Sabbath

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Read the Context there is no mistaking what Sabbath is being spoken of.

Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Notice in the commandment it says the "seventh day" is the Sabbath of the "Lord thy God". again no mistaking what day is being spoken of here.

All this church writings and stuff is just smoke and mirrors.

Protestants base their doctrine on the bible and the bible only. not what any man or woman says.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So why would we listen to early christian writings that go against Scripture?

 

[gotime]

Exactly - I personally do not think a day in a week matters. Jesus came to fulfill the law. He BECAME the Sabbath,in him we find rest.

You do know the Sabbath was blessed and sanctified by God before sin entered the world?

 

[gotime]

it's funny, it sounds to me too, a little like nicodemus's question to mistake God's true rest with a ritual observance.

but nevermind that --
i was wondering what the objective difference between physical circumcision and calendar sabbath observance is. .
because:

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
(Galatians 5:1-6)

thoughts?

The bible never says the rest we have in Jesus replaces Gods Sabbath nothing but man made fables.

as for Galatians read it again. the issue is circumcision. but as for the law/10 commandments you just need to read a bit further down.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

what does love your neighbour as thyself mean?

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Well Paul taught that Love thy Neighbour was a summery or short comprehension of the Commandments.

SO lets do what Paul said and not use our liberty sin/break the law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7.

And just to make very clear James quoted the same law calling it the law of liberty.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Jesus a teacher of the new covenant said while quoting this same law:

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

well there you have it, Paul said it, James said it, Jesus said it.

Love fulfills the law because:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I am the first to be aware that not all attack those who observe the Seventh Day, but I can affirm the count of those who do are at a much higher ratio than those who may attack those who have changed the Seventh Day to the first day of the week of creation. Count them in the posts.

Now, I am never a victim, so do not portray my post as if I am attempting to paint myself so. That is a personal "attack." Again, count and tally, and you will be aware of that truth.

i just went through the first ten pages of the bible discussion forum...i found four 'sabbath bashing' threads...i also found -thirteen- aggressive 'sabbath keeping' threads...that is more than three times as many...

feel free to repeat these counts for yourself and see if i missed any threads...

for the record i was fairly 'lenient' about what i considered to be an aggressive 'sabbath keeping' thread...for example i didn't count kohenmatt's celebratory threads that he posts each sabbath...nor did i count threads where a sabbath keeper revealed what they were getting at later in the thread but hadn't mentioned the sabbath in their initial post... on the other hand i was a lot more quick to tally a thread as 'sabbath bashing' even if it wasn't aggressively so... i did it this way so that my counts can't be accused of bias towards my point of view...

you might still argue that there are numerically more 'sabbath bashers' on the forum...and that might be true...i haven't counted...-but- they don't start even half as many threads trying to aggressively push their point of view as the sabbath keepers...the sabbath keepers are -more than three times as likely- to make a thread provoking the other side to argument as the 'sabbath bashers' are...

in other words...the sabbath keepers are -much- more frequently picking 'sabbath fights' than the 'sabbath bashers' are...you may argue that there are more 'sabbath bashers' than sabbath keepers...but a small group that picks a fight against a bigger group -is still guilty of picking the fight-...

you have claimed that you and your fellow sabbath keepers are constantly under attack...but the numbers seem to show that the sabbath keepers are the ones constantly attacking non sabbath keepers...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

You still don't get it. You remind me of Nicodemus when Jesus was trying to talk to him about being born again. Do you really think I was referring to the trees, rocks, flowers and fish when I said, I don't believe this is God's world?

Anyone who still feels that the Law is bad then you are either deceived or lost in your carnal mind. Only the carnal mind is at enmity with the Law of God, not those who are Spirit filled.

the two verses i posted show that the entire earth -and everything and everyone in it- belong to God...and that is true whether they want to get with the program or not...

a lot of people assume that since the most powerful people on earth seem to mostly do evil then the earth must really belong to satan and not to God...but that isn't true...evil people in power are just accumulating punishment for themselves by defying the one they belong to and in whose hands they have always been...

and for the record i haven't said i think the law is bad... i am not at enmity with the law...i am at enmity with you and your unbiblical message of condemnation...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The main problem here is that its all human reasoning. We do not go to man to interpret what the Lord's day is, but to God and His word.

Jesus said he is Lord of the Sabbath.

Lord = Jesus
day = Sabbath

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Read the Context there is no mistaking what Sabbath is being spoken of.

Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Notice in the commandment it says the "seventh day" is the Sabbath of the "Lord thy God". again no mistaking what day is being spoken of here.

All this church writings and stuff is just smoke and mirrors.

Protestants base their doctrine on the bible and the bible only. not what any man or woman says.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So why would we listen to early christian writings that go against Scripture?

the early christian writings i cited -don't- go against scripture on this issue...they go against your baseless misinterpretation of scripture...

you seem to have a misunderstanding of what it means to 'go to God and his word'...

specifically...posting scripture proves nothing if your conclusion doesn't actually follow from the scriptures you post...if you drop a few coins into a giant pile of dirt you don't suddenly have a giant pile of money...you still have a giant pile of dirt...

case in point...-none- of the scriptures you just posted say anything about 'the lord's day' being the sabbath...all you have done is made a claim and posted scriptures that don't even prove your point...

you have yet to post a single scripture that proves that the sabbath is the day specifically referred to as 'the lord's day'...and you have yet to post a single scripture that proves that sunday cannot be 'the lord's day' as the early church is known to have called it...

so my original argument stands...it is a historical fact that the early church called sunday 'the lord's day'...and verses that are wonderful in their own right but -say nothing about the subject- are not relevant to the discussion...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The main problem here is that its all human reasoning. We do not go to man to interpret what the Lord's day is, but to God and His word.

Jesus said he is Lord of the Sabbath.

Lord = Jesus
day = Sabbath

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Read the Context there is no mistaking what Sabbath is being spoken of.

Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Notice in the commandment it says the "seventh day" is the Sabbath of the "Lord thy God". again no mistaking what day is being spoken of here.

All this church writings and stuff is just smoke and mirrors.

Protestants base their doctrine on the bible and the bible only. not what any man or woman says.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So why would we listen to early christian writings that go against Scripture?

just to specifically show that your verses -don't- establish that the sabbath is 'the lord's day'...

regarding mark 2:28...jesus is lord of the sabbath...however that does not mean this is the only day he is lord of...or that it is the only day that is his...and it does not prove that the sabbath is the only day that could possibly be called 'the lord's day'

to use a real world example of what you are claiming and why your claim is illogical... queen elizabeth is officially the monarch of australia...but that does not mean she is monarch -only- of australia...and nobody would insist that saying 'queen elizabeth's country' -must- refer only to australia...

instead you would have to recognize what conventionally would be meant by the phrase 'queen elizabeth's country'...obviously england... likewise you need to determine what the early christians would have understood to be meant by the phrase 'the lord's day'...and this is documented in early christian writings as being sunday...

now regarding exodus 20:10...the seventh day is the lord's sabbath...however this doesn't establish that 'the lord's sabbath' and 'the lord's day' are the same thing...since 'sabbath' is obviously a more specific term than 'day'

to use another queen elizabeth example...suppose we know that 'the queen's favorite ice cream' is vanilla...based on this fact alone you couldn't just assume that the phrase 'the queen's favorite dessert' must also refer to vanilla...obviously her favorite dessert might not even be an ice cream...

so in fact neither of the two verses you posted actually establish that 'the lord's day' must be the sabbath...