Free Gifts Come With Conditions....
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Jeaus was obedient unto death ...what was he working for....all things belong to him. Every time someone mentions obedience you claim they are trying to earn salvation, obedience is the nature of God's children they hear ,they follow ,they observe,they are doers of the word, just as the children of Israel with the manna... they had instructions ...we have instructions ...we must follow instructions. Else we become as Adam and disobey.
E
Yes, he was obedient to death. what does this mean.
1. His obedience caused him to EARN the right to become Lord and Savior
2. His obedience EARNED him the right to pay the death for all mankind
3. His obedience EARNED him the right to sit at the right hand of God and be our mediator.
Jesus did works of merit, Which not only earned him the right to save us, But allows him to offer the precious thing HE EARNED to us, so we could be saved.
ie.. Jesus did works of merit. He paid for ths gift of eternal life with his obedience.
And your a liar. You better go to the throne room of God and confess your sin, You have neared false witness, You may lose your salvation.
Yep.
But as I said, (and as usual you completely ignored)
there is obedience out of love, which is NOT A WORK OF MERIT. (doing for others and not expecting anything in return,)
Then their is obedience of the flesh (carnality) doing work, and expecting to recieve something in return.
Doing work so you gain salvation, keep salvation, do not lose salvation is doing a work of merit. God will not honor these works.
this is what you people are preaching, and these are the works I am challenging. Not the works of obedience done in love, as ALL Gods people should be doing (actually they will do. although not perfectly, and many more than others)
Was he not talking about his word...and making a comparison with the natural...Do we not eat natural bread every day to sustain our natural man .....so must the spiritual food sustain our spiritual man, the word has to be alive in you springing up into everlasting life. That the spiritual man controls the natural man. If the spiritual man is not fed .....
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Quench not the Spirit.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Quench not the Spirit.
E
what part of,
"endures to eternal life"
Never hunger
never thirst
Never die
Live forever
Will be raised on the last day (vs delivered)
HAS eternal life.
do you not understand?
Did Jesus say we must keep eating (like their fathers in the dessert) because the food died, and new food had to be eaten.
Or did he say, unlike that food. which died, causing us to have to continue to eat. Whoever eats this food (once) will live forever?
"endures to eternal life"
Never hunger
never thirst
Never die
Live forever
Will be raised on the last day (vs delivered)
HAS eternal life.
do you not understand?
Did Jesus say we must keep eating (like their fathers in the dessert) because the food died, and new food had to be eaten.
Or did he say, unlike that food. which died, causing us to have to continue to eat. Whoever eats this food (once) will live forever?
and I keep asking you and you keep ignoring If a man is saved by grace how can you imply that he is doing works to be saved... the difference is you are saying there is nothing he can do to draw back to perdition.
I am saying we are saved by grace, (free) through faith (condition) Men accept the faith and deny afterward..
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
The writer here is including himself, so you would agree he is speaking to saved people..he indicates if we neglect so great salvation suggesting it is possible even for him to neglect salvation. Which would result in a just reward
I am saying we are saved by grace, (free) through faith (condition) Men accept the faith and deny afterward..
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
The writer here is including himself, so you would agree he is speaking to saved people..he indicates if we neglect so great salvation suggesting it is possible even for him to neglect salvation. Which would result in a just reward
So Abraham was trying to merit his salvation when he obeyed in leaving his house, land and kindred and offering his son Issac, Heb 11:8,17? No.
Noah was trying to merit salvation by obeying God's command to build an ark, Heb 11:7? No.
This "boasting" angle where you are trying to make obedience a work of merit does not work. Rom 10:3 Paul CONTRASTS works of merit that would not save those lost Jews to submitting/obeying God's will that would save those lost Jews.
You say "All they had to do was receive it"
That required the work of gathering. The 'faith only' advocates need God to have had the manna pre-chewed and pre-digested and place in the stomach of the Hebrews while they sat still and did nothing. But that is not how it happened for God required of them to work to gather the manna He gave them. How would they ever eat the manna if they never did the work of going and gathering the manna?
E
I am not the one teaching a man can be saved by works, you are.
I believe a man is saved by grace through faith.
if you can fall back to perdition and lose salvation, then you must work like the dickens not to. whihc means you are trying to gain salvation by working hard not to fall into perdition.
When are you going to realise this?
He always spoke in the term we.. Not everyone in the church he wrote to was saved, he always warned them to make sure they had true faith, and did not waver (like james)
Nice try though.
Your making salvation a reward for work done, Not a gift freely given. period
I believe a man is saved by grace through faith.
if you can fall back to perdition and lose salvation, then you must work like the dickens not to. whihc means you are trying to gain salvation by working hard not to fall into perdition.
When are you going to realise this?
He always spoke in the term we.. Not everyone in the church he wrote to was saved, he always warned them to make sure they had true faith, and did not waver (like james)
Nice try though.
Your making salvation a reward for work done, Not a gift freely given. period
E
Nope. As I already proved, Abraham was declaired righteous before he did works. His works proved his faith was not dead, it did not gain him his salvation. As paul said, if it did, he has reason to boast (take credit for earning his salvation)
sigh,, oh but for the blind.
Noah was not saved because he works, He was saved because of his faith, His faith produced his work. proving his faith was real (not dead)
God does not wait until we work to say, Ok, I think they have true faith, NOW I will save them.
he knows the moment he asks us to trust him if it is real or not.
Why do you wish so hard to put God in human terms, and deny his diety? You make God to be a man, limited by human things, and not God.
works are not for Gods benefit. They are for our benefit, To prove if our faith is real. or if it is mere belief.
sigh,, oh but for the blind.
Noah was not saved because he works, He was saved because of his faith, His faith produced his work. proving his faith was real (not dead)
God does not wait until we work to say, Ok, I think they have true faith, NOW I will save them.
he knows the moment he asks us to trust him if it is real or not.
Why do you wish so hard to put God in human terms, and deny his diety? You make God to be a man, limited by human things, and not God.
works are not for Gods benefit. They are for our benefit, To prove if our faith is real. or if it is mere belief.
E
Nope it was not. One could not take credit or boast or earn the manna just because they went to go get it. it was theirs to begin with.
Gathering the manna was a way for them to be blessed by what was theirs,
The manna was still theirs. what they did with it was up to them. They did not earn the manna just because they went to go get it. THAT IS WHAT IS DIFFERENT. And that is NOT THE WAY YOUR USING IT.,
when are you going to realize that no matter how you try to spin it, it does not prove that you have to work, or you will not be saved, that would make it works of merit to gain salvation.
Gathering the manna was a way for them to be blessed by what was theirs,
The manna was still theirs. what they did with it was up to them. They did not earn the manna just because they went to go get it. THAT IS WHAT IS DIFFERENT. And that is NOT THE WAY YOUR USING IT.,
when are you going to realize that no matter how you try to spin it, it does not prove that you have to work, or you will not be saved, that would make it works of merit to gain salvation.
when dcontroversal humbled himself & admitted his inability to reach the gift on his own,
and asked in faith whether i would by grace help him to attain them,
i freely offered to send them to him.
it's true:
The sluggard buries his hand in the dish;
it wears him out to bring it back to his mouth.
(Proverbs 26:15)
but if i give a man a gift of food, who has no strength in his arms to pick it up and eat it,
should i not myself pick up the spoon and feed it to him?
whenever we Christians are given some sort of accolade, we piously say "no no, not me; not me but Christ in me does this work"
isn't this true? so if any work is done by our hands in His name, whose glory is it?
if a sheep is caught in the brambles, does the Good Shepherd stand on the hill yelling at him to free himself and rejoin the flock?
or does He have in His hand a crook?
we can struggle against Him, and entangle ourselves deeper, or we can allow Him to set us free.
we come to Him for our food, for our safety and for affection. but no one comes to Him unless He first draws us to Him (John 6:44). how can i say "i came to Him" or "by my strength i reached to Him" if first formed me, and gave my legs power to walk and my arms power to reach out, and then called me to Him?
all glory belongs to God! amen!
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i take it you are refusing my offer of fresh fruit, on account of the laborious burden of the work you perceive you must do to receive them?
you have not addressed
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Nice try though.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Nice try though.
None of it would have been necessary if were not for sin. God sustained Israel as they wandered through the wilderness. Their shoes did not wear out during the forty years in the wilderness.
Yes God would have filled their stomachs for them if it were not for the hardness of their hearts and their lack of thankfulness. This is evidence of the residual effects of sin. Man prevents God from doing what God wants to do for man.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes God would have filled their stomachs for them if it were not for the hardness of their hearts and their lack of thankfulness. This is evidence of the residual effects of sin. Man prevents God from doing what God wants to do for man.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
if the gift is life to a dead body, (Ephesians 2:1-10)
how does the dead carcass do anything before it receives life?
and everything that regenerated one does is a part of the gift it was given!
Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them,
if those bones then rise up,
it's because of the life given to them at the Word of the Maker! the same One who gave them ears to hear the command is the one that gave them power to obey.
when Christ raised Lazarus, did Lazarus do the work of "coming forth" before he received the gift of life?
if that gift was in fact the power to come forth, can Lazarus be praised for walking out of his on tomb, into the light?
i'm not saying at all that when the Lord makes you alive, it's good to remain inert.
i just want to be clear about who it is that deserves the praise!
how does the dead carcass do anything before it receives life?
and everything that regenerated one does is a part of the gift it was given!
Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them,
'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!' "
(Ezekiel 37:4)
if those bones then rise up,
it's because of the life given to them at the Word of the Maker! the same One who gave them ears to hear the command is the one that gave them power to obey.
when Christ raised Lazarus, did Lazarus do the work of "coming forth" before he received the gift of life?
if that gift was in fact the power to come forth, can Lazarus be praised for walking out of his on tomb, into the light?
i'm not saying at all that when the Lord makes you alive, it's good to remain inert.
i just want to be clear about who it is that deserves the praise!
E
I did address it.
You like to stick on little verses. and ignore everything that is said.
Paul has used this many times. Like he did in corinthians, when he said if we.. He later added, but we are not the ones.
Again, If you look at the way paul wrote things, you can see things clearly. and not just take a littel verse that appears to point to what your saying, when it reality it does not.
You continue to have failed to address the true cruxt of the matter.
How can you say your not trying to earn something, when in reality you are.
How can one not work to fall into perdition. And then claim he is not trying to earn a gift by working HARD not to fall back into perdition?
E
I am distributing Gods power??
How? I am saying he has the same power to save everyone completely. No distribution or separation. it is ALL of God. not man.
I am not trying to add myself and my works into Gods gift.
I am not making my ability to do good deeds, and not fall into sin overthrow the power of God to continue a good work in me until the day of Christ.
I am not trying to save myself.
You are. Your the one hindering the power of God. Because your denying he has the power to save you and keep you from falling as his precious child. Not me.
and as i said earlier, if you want me to respond to everything, please learn how to format your quotes. if I can not see it in a quote. I can not respond to it.
How? I am saying he has the same power to save everyone completely. No distribution or separation. it is ALL of God. not man.
I am not trying to add myself and my works into Gods gift.
I am not making my ability to do good deeds, and not fall into sin overthrow the power of God to continue a good work in me until the day of Christ.
I am not trying to save myself.
You are. Your the one hindering the power of God. Because your denying he has the power to save you and keep you from falling as his precious child. Not me.
and as i said earlier, if you want me to respond to everything, please learn how to format your quotes. if I can not see it in a quote. I can not respond to it.