Baptism Essential to Salvation

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R

renewal

Guest
#81
water baptism does not save us on it on.. im not saying all you have to do to be saved is be baptized but with out it we cant be saved we have to be baptized in his name for for remission just as the scripture say.. theres no way around that no matter how hard people try to go around it
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#82
Repentance and baptism are two different things. Peter did NOT say "repent for remission of sins" but said "be baptized for remission of sins".

Sin are remitted in baptism.
Remission of sins = saved.
This is why Peter says baptism saves 1 Pet 3:21

In Rom 6 it is NOT after one repents he rises to walk in newness of life but after he is water baptized he rises from the watery grave he walks in newness of life with the old man of sin having died and buried.
My friend, remission of sin does not grant eternal life. We are not saved by baptism, although it is a necessary step...

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#83
Water Baptism is a symbolic gesture that's saying that your are submitting and committing to become a new person that is starting a new life all over again, it is like being born again. But we are unable to do that by ourselves because we all are weak, only the strong can recondition us. God Just like this gesture because it is letting Him know that we are confessing that we recognize that we are sinners, but which the Pharisees had thought that they weren't blind, but Jesus had said, if you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty, but since they had said that they can see, their guilt remain. That is why God break us down to humble ourselves from being arrogant. Everyone must go through the water; Noah was the first to take his generation through it to start all over again, and Moses has brought the descendants of Abraham through it as well. But they were still unable to keep their commitment to God. And so the earthly water doesn't save us, but the living water does and that is the Holy Spirit (The word of God).

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Hebrews 10:22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves. That is why there are many verses that show water baptism being necessary to salvation:

Mk16:16
Acts 2:28
Jn 3:5
Acs 2:38
Acts 10:47,48
Rom 6:1-7
1 Cor 1:12,13
1 Cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
Eph 5:26
Col 2:12-14

Water baptism is not only symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Rom 6) but is for the purpose of remission of sins (Acts 2:38) therefore making it necessary to being saved.
 
R

renewal

Guest
#84
i know remission doesnt grant eternal life alone but with out it we have no eternal life.. thats why jesus said we must be born again of the water and the spirit. born of the water = jesus name baptism just as the scriptures it says it very very clearly. born of the spirit = the receiving of the holy ghost just as they did in the upper room.. its no different for us than it was them
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#85
My friend, remission of sin does not grant eternal life. We are not saved by baptism, although it is a necessary step...

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

1) Remission of sins is equivalent to salvation/eternal life.

2) The purpose of water baptism is for the remission of sins/salvation/eternal life.

3) therefore water baptism saves, 1 Pet 3:21.

If Christ had not had an obedient life here on earth, then salvation would not be possible. Christ was obedient unto death...The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
As Clarke puts it:
We shall be saved by his life.
For, as he
died for our sins, so he rose again for our justification; and his resurrection to life, is the grand proof that he has accomplished whatever he had purposed in reference to the salvation of man


His resurrection is why "baptism doth also now save us".
 
R

renewal

Guest
#86
its done in jesus name cause they knew what the name of those titles .. its jesus thats why when the went into the land baptizing in jesus name after he command in matthew to do.. do we think we are smater than god and that he dont even know his gramer. he told them to baptize in the name of those titles and they did.. thats why the baptisms were done in jesus name through ot the acts of the church after he told them that
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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#87
Re: Baptism NOT Essential to Salvation

then peter said unto them repent and be baptized in jesus name for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the holy ghost
No water is mentioned. Baptized in Jesus' name, not Baptized in water. Spirit Baptism is salvific. No human works can save.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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#88
1) Remission of sins is equivalent to salvation/eternal life.

2) The purpose of water baptism is for the remission of sins/salvation/eternal life.
False. No water is mentioned. The Baptism is in Jesus' name, not in water. Spirit Baptism is salvific; no human works save. (Eph 2)

3) therefore water baptism saves, 1 Pet 3:21.
No, 1 Pet does not say that at all.

" Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water: which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; who is on the right hand of God, having gone into heaven; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."

Water baptism is a picture, a likeness of being joined with Christ in His death & resurrection. The salvation is in the reality, not the picture, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (not literal water washing).

Water baptism cannot save, since it is a human work, & human works do not save. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourself, not of works!


And since salvation is offered over & over just for belief or faith, water baptism cannot be an essential for salvation.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#89
i know remission doesnt grant eternal life alone but with out it we have no eternal life.. thats why jesus said we must be born again of the water and the spirit. born of the water = jesus name baptism just as the scriptures it says it very very clearly. born of the spirit = the receiving of the holy ghost just as they did in the upper room.. its no different for us than it was them
When we are physically born, we are born of water. When we are born again, it is by the Spirit of God.

Water baptism never saves in the Bible, and salvation by faith /belief alone is offered many many times. So Water baptism cannot be essential to salvation. Moreover, no human work saves.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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#90
God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves. That is why there are many verses that show water baptism being necessary to salvation:

Mk16:16
Acts 2:28
Jn 3:5
Acs 2:38
Acts 10:47,48
Rom 6:1-7
1 Cor 1:12,13
1 Cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
Eph 5:26
Col 2:12-14

Water baptism is not only symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Rom 6) but is for the purpose of remission of sins (Acts 2:38) therefore making it necessary to being saved.
Not a one of those verses way that water baptism saves. For example, Romans 6 speaks about baptism into Christ, not into water. 1 Cor 12:13 is Baptism by the Spirit -- no water. None of the others teach that water baptism saves either. John 3 has no ref to baptism whatsoever.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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#91
Baptism IS NOT Essential to Salvation

I defy anyone to show me a very where the word essential is used for water baptism relative to salvation.

I posted a thorough refutation of the theory that water baptism is an essential for salvation earlier. I don't feel like chewing my tobacco twice at this point.

Many many times the Bible offers salvation just for believing/faith.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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#92
To answer:

Yes, Peter said so in his Epistle.

No, because John the Baptist did immersion, but the OT mentions that a day shall come when the waters of salvation are sprinkled.

Yes, because Jesus commanded us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Wrong, Thomist.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#93
False. No water is mentioned. The Baptism is in Jesus' name, not in water. Spirit Baptism is salvific; no human works save. (Eph 2)

There is no "spirit baptism" mentioned in Mk 16:16 or Acts 2:28 for these verses refer to the human administered water baptism of the great commission, Mt 28:19,20.

Rom 6:16 obedience unto righteousness. Nothing in EPh 2 says obedience to God's will does not save.

Atwood said:
No, 1 Pet does not say that at all.
I quoted straight from the bible, Peter saying "baptism doth also now save us". Of course, after 1 Pet 3:21 is run through the faith only grinder it will not look recognizable.

Atwood said:
" Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water: which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; who is on the right hand of God, having gone into heaven; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."

Water baptism is a picture, a likeness of being joined with Christ in His death & resurrection. The salvation is in the reality, not the picture, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (not literal water washing).

Water baptism cannot save, since it is a human work, & human works do not save. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourself, not of works!


And since salvation is offered over & over just for belief or faith, water baptism cannot be an essential for salvation.
1- water baptism is symbolic of Christ's death burial and resurrection and one not baptize cannot rise from the watery grave to walk in newness of life.

2- not only is water baptism symbolic of Christ's death burial and resurrection it also saves for its God given purpose is remission of sins Acts 2:38.

3- submitting to baptism is an act of righteousness, Acts 10:35; Rom 10:3 that saves.
Psa 119:172 all God's commandments are righteousness. When one obeys God's command in being baptized, he then is working God's righteousness and then accepted with God. One is unrighteous and remains unrighteous until he obeys God's commands/righteousness.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#94
Yes, I fully agree that water baptism IS IMPORTANT for every new believer...........BUT it is NOT what cleanses us of our sin, or gives us salvation.

People who preach Acts 2:38 almost ALWAYS leave out "REPENT..........." Why? Well because that doesn't fit their ideology.
Repentance is metanoia, a change of mind. The only change of mind that saves, is the change from not trusting to trusting Christ, from non-belief to belief.

Many, may times salvation is offered just for believing/faith, nothing else. thus nothing else can be an essential requirement for man to be saved.
 
May 15, 2013
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#95
God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves. That is why there are many verses that show water baptism being necessary to salvation:

Mk16:16
Acts 2:28
Jn 3:5
Acs 2:38
Acts 10:47,48
Rom 6:1-7
1 Cor 1:12,13
1 Cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
Eph 5:26
Col 2:12-14

Water baptism is not only symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Rom 6) but is for the purpose of remission of sins (Acts 2:38) therefore making it necessary to being saved.
As renewal is referring I guess, that we must be born again through the physical (water) Baptism, and then be born of the spiritual Baptism.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#96
Not a one of those verses way that water baptism saves. For example, Romans 6 speaks about baptism into Christ, not into water. 1 Cor 12:13 is Baptism by the Spirit -- no water. None of the others teach that water baptism saves either. John 3 has no ref to baptism whatsoever.
Every single verse I cited is about water baptism including 1 Cor 12:13.


Jn 3:5-------------spirit+++++++++water>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13--------spirit+++++++++baptized>>>>>in the body

1 Cor 1:14,16 Paul water baptized some of the Corinthians himself with the water baptism of 1 Cor 12:13 and 1 Cor 1:14,16 being the one baptism of Eph 4:5. Trying to make 1 Cor 12:13 anything other than water baptism creates two baptisms not one per EPh 4:5.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#97
Re: Baptism IS NOT Essential to Salvation

I defy anyone to show me a very where the word essential is used for water baptism relative to salvation.

I posted a thorough refutation of the theory that water baptism is an essential for salvation earlier. I don't feel like chewing my tobacco twice at this point.

Many many times the Bible offers salvation just for believing/faith.
The word "essential" is not in the KJV. So going by your reasoning, NOTHING is essential to salvation.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#98
As renewal is referring I guess, that we must be born again through the physical (water) Baptism, and then be born of the spiritual Baptism.
The new birth is a spiritual event but does not take place until one is water baptized for the new birth consists of both WATER and spirit. One birth, two elements.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#99
Water Baptism Never Saves

There is no "spirit baptism" mentioned in Mk 16:16 or Acts 2:28 for these verses refer to the human administered water baptism of the great commission, Mt 28:19,20.
No water is mentioned in either Mark 16:16 nor Acts 2:38. The fact that Mat 28 refers to water baptism proves nothing as to those other two verses. Water baptism cannot save for it is a human work. Not by works lest anyone should boast (Eph 2).

Rom 6:16 obedience unto righteousness. Nothing in EPh 2 says obedience to God's will does not save.
Eph 2 :"Not of works." Salvation is what God does to help the disobedient sinners. Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. The only obedience that saves is obeying the gospel: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved."


I quoted straight from the bible, Peter saying "baptism doth also now save us". Of course, after 1 Pet 3:21 is run through the faith only grinder it will not look recognizable.
Now folks, look below at the passage and see if he tells the truth.

Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water: which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; who is on the right hand of God, having gone into heaven; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.".

Showing context is not a meat-grinder. Water baptism is a picture of salvation, not salvation -- it is not the water on flesh that saves.

1- water baptism is symbolic of Christ's death burial and resurrection and one not baptize cannot rise from the watery grave to walk in newness of life.
Prove it.

2- not only is water baptism symbolic of Christ's death burial and resurrection it also saves for its God given purpose is remission of sins Acts 2:38.
Water is not mentioned in Acts 2:38. The context is Acts 1 first where Spirit baptism is predicted, then fulfilled in Acts 2.

3- submitting to baptism is an act of righteousness, Acts 10:35; Rom 10:3 that saves.
Neither of those passages says that water baptism saves.

Psa 119:172 all God's commandments are righteousness. When one obeys God's command in being baptized, he then is working God's righteousness and then accepted with God. One is unrighteous and remains unrighteous until he obeys God's commands/righteousness.
God's commandments will condemn you. You do not keep God's commandments. The guy who claims it is condemned. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

When the commandment came, sin revived, & I died. Rom 7

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
The new birth is a spiritual event but does not take place until one is water baptized for the new birth consists of both WATER and spirit. One birth, two elements.
Prove that John 3 refers to baptism instead of natural birth.