Baptism Essential to Salvation

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Re: Baptism IS NOT Essential to Salvation

The word "essential" is not in the KJV. So going by your reasoning, NOTHING is essential to salvation.
A synonym is all right. For example, "must"

He is the stone which was set at nought of you the builders, which was made the head of the corner. And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved.


Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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48
Every single verse I cited is about water baptism including 1 Cor 12:13.
.
False.

Quote the verses & show where water baptism is mentioned. You cannot for all of those verses.

1 Cor 12:13 says spirit baptism. That puts a believer in the Body of Christ.

There are more than 1 baptism in the Bible. John's water baptism is contrasted with Christ's Spirit Baptism.
And His death was a baptism -- are you able to be baptized with my baptism?

Eph 4 is not counting beans. It is saying that every Christian has the same baptism. And that is Spirit baptism, since some believers are not yet baptized, and some die without getting baptized, like the thief on the cross. The only one baptism all believers have is Spirit Baptism.

Water baptism is a human work, and human works cannot save.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Salvation is offered so many, many times in the Bible just for faith/believing;
thus water baptism cannot be an essential to salvation. It is true that if you believe & eat beans, you will be saved -- but the beans are not essential.


Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], & you shall be saved. Acts 16.
This was a direct answer to "Sirs, what must I do to be saved."
If something besides "believe" were required, that would be false advertising.

Only rarely is baptism associated with salvation in the Bible.
In no case is water mentioned.
Since the baptism of the Spirit is salvific, it make sense to interpret those rare passages as referring to Spirit baptism. Also, since salvation is not by works (Eph 2), and since water baptism is a human work, water baptism cannot be causative of salvation.

On the other hand, Spirit baptism is not a human work. A number of works are required for salvation, but only by God. In salvation Christ is the Savior, the one who handles our sin problem. We are the savee (if we trust Him).

Having said that, water baptism is something that IMHO should be done as soon as possible after a man trusts Jesus as Savior. It should not be neglected.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Re: Baptism IS NOT Essential to Salvation

A synonym is all right. For example, "must"

He is the stone which was set at nought of you the builders, which was made the head of the corner. And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved.


Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
Ye must be born again, Jn 3:5

Act 2:38 "be baptized" is imperative mood. Disobeying commands is sin and sin is why men are lost so baptism is a must to obey commands and not sin and be lost.

The jailer was baptized. Acts 16:33 so no belief only here.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Can't find any reference that Paul the founder of the gentile church was baptized in water.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Re: Water Baptism Never Saves

No water is mentioned in either Mark 16:16 nor Acts 2:38. The fact that Mat 28 refers to water baptism proves nothing as to those other two verses. Water baptism cannot save for it is a human work. Not by works lest anyone should boast (Eph 2).
Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15;16 and Luke 24:47 are Matthew's, Mark's and Luke's account of the great commission, Acts 2:38 is carrying out Lk 24:47. The baptism of the great commission had disciples/humans commissioned to go and baptize. Humans can only administer water baptism as Phillip water baptized the eunuch.



Atwood said:
Eph 2 :"Not of works." Salvation is what God does to help the disobedient sinners. Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. The only obedience that saves is obeying the gospel: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved."
Not of works of Eph 2 refers to works of merit and not obedience. Rom 6 Paul shows obedient works justify and Paul did not contradict himself.

Rom 6:16--Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You either serve:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience UNTO righteousness

I serve #2 but your faith only theology has ruled out #2 for you leaving you not a good master to be serving.


Atwood said:
Now folks, look below at the passage and see if he tells the truth.

Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water: which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; who is on the right hand of God, having gone into heaven; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.".

Showing context is not a meat-grinder. Water baptism is a picture of salvation, not salvation -- it is not the water on flesh that saves.
Peter said "baptism doth also now save us" After going through the faith only meat grinder, faith only advocaes have petr saying baptism doth also NOT save us" the exact opposite of what Peter said.

"Baptism doth also now save us" is a biblical truth and nothing else in the verse changes, alters or does away with this truth.

The Greek word is antitypos that the KJV renders "like figure"

Antitypos or anti-type means mirror reflection, thing resembling another, counterpart.

In the context the OT type is 8 souls saved by water. The NT anti-type is saved by water.

The OT type is like a die and the NT anti-type is the imprint left by the die.

OT type - saved by water
NT antitype-saved by water


Atwood said:
Prove it.
Rom 6:3,4



Atwood said:
Water is not mentioned in Acts 2:38. The context is Acts 1 first where Spirit baptism is predicted, then fulfilled in Acts 2.
Acts 2:38 is the baptism of the great commission Mt 28:19,20' Mk 16:15,16; Lk 24:47 that had disciples administering water baptism as Phillip water baptized the eunuch.

Baptism of Acts 2:38 is commanded and one can obey the command to be water baptized as in Acts 10:47,48 Cornelius was commanded water baptism. No one was ever commanded to be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Baptism with the HS was a promise made to the apostles, Acts 1:1-5 not anyone today. Command to be water baptized can be obeyed but the promise of HS made to the apsoltes cannot be obeyed by anyone.



atwood said:
Neither of those passages says that water baptism saves.
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

1) no working righteousness = not accepted with God and heir goes false faith only out the window.

2) Psa 119:172 "All thy commandments are righteousness" so Gods command to Cornelius to be water baptized verse 47,48 is righteousness and Cornelius would be working righteousness when he obeyed that righteous command of God.

3) Paul tells us in Rom 10:3 the Jews were lost for they have "not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God" Again, all Gods commands are righteousness so the Jews were lost for not submitting/obey God's command to be water baptized.

Atwood said:
God's commandments will condemn you. You do not keep God's commandments. The guy who claims it is condemned. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

When the commandment came, sin revived, & I died. Rom 7

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.
NOT obeying Gods commands is what condemns. Not obeying = disobedience = sin = lost.

God's commandments are righteousness so one is unrighteous and remains unrighteous until he obeys God's righteousness/commandments.

Again Eph 2 "not of works" refers to works of merit and not obedient works. Again, Rom 6:16 do you serve sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Can't find any reference that Paul the founder of the gentile church was baptized in water.
Acts 22:16

And Christ is the founder of the His one church that includes both Jews and Gentiles. Paul was not the founder of any church.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Prove that John 3 refers to baptism instead of natural birth.
Jn 3:5-----------spirit++++++++++++water>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor 12:13------spirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>in the body


Since there is just one way to be saved/born again therefore both verses MUST say the same thing and "water" in Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized of 1 Cor 12:13.

Why would Jesus tell a full grown man standing in front of him "ye must be naturally born"? It makes Jesus look ridiculous in not understanding Nicodemas was ALREADY naturally born.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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False.

Quote the verses & show where water baptism is mentioned. You cannot for all of those verses.

1 Cor 12:13 says spirit baptism. That puts a believer in the Body of Christ.

There are more than 1 baptism in the Bible. John's water baptism is contrasted with Christ's Spirit Baptism.
And His death was a baptism -- are you able to be baptized with my baptism?

Eph 4 is not counting beans. It is saying that every Christian has the same baptism. And that is Spirit baptism, since some believers are not yet baptized, and some die without getting baptized, like the thief on the cross. The only one baptism all believers have is Spirit Baptism.

Water baptism is a human work, and human works cannot save.
The bible is its own best commentary.

Jn 3:5------------spirit+++++++++water>>>>>in kingdom
1cor12:13-------spirit++++++++baptized>>>>>in body

1 Cor 1:14,16 Paul WATER BAPTIZED some of the Corinthians himself, the ONE BAPTISM of Eph 4:5 that is in effect today.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Salvation is offered so many, many times in the Bible just for faith/believing;
thus water baptism cannot be an essential to salvation. It is true that if you believe & eat beans, you will be saved -- but the beans are not essential.


Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], & you shall be saved. Acts 16.
This was a direct answer to "Sirs, what must I do to be saved."
If something besides "believe" were required, that would be false advertising.

Only rarely is baptism associated with salvation in the Bible.
In no case is water mentioned.
Since the baptism of the Spirit is salvific, it make sense to interpret those rare passages as referring to Spirit baptism. Also, since salvation is not by works (Eph 2), and since water baptism is a human work, water baptism cannot be causative of salvation.

On the other hand, Spirit baptism is not a human work. A number of works are required for salvation, but only by God. In salvation Christ is the Savior, the one who handles our sin problem. We are the savee (if we trust Him).

Having said that, water baptism is something that IMHO should be done as soon as possible after a man trusts Jesus as Savior. It should not be neglected.
The jailer was NEVER told to "believe only"

Acts 16:34 And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God.

The participle phrase "having believed" sums up all the jailer did including his repentance as shown by washing their stripes and being baptized.

Believe is sometimes used as a synecdoche where it INCLUDES baptism.

Acts 2:41- Then they that gladly received his word were baptized
Acts 2:44 -all that believed were together.


Those that received his words were baptized, conversely those that rejected his words rejected being baptized.

So in v44 who were the ones that "believed"? The ones accepting his word and baptized or not accepted his words and not baptized? The ones the believed were the ones baptized so "believed" of v44 includes baptism

Also note v41 implies one has not accepted the gospel message until he has been baptized.






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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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The Only MUST-DO Is Believe

The jailer was NEVER told to "believe only"
That is what Seabass said ,

What scripture says is

"Sirs, what
must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], and you shall be saved."

Only one
must-do was specified by the prophet.

Yes, the jailer was baptized after believing, as he should have been.
But nothing is said about baptizing being required for salvation.

Seabass said a falsehood:

"
Also note v41 implies one has not accepted the gospel message until he has been baptized."
Utterly false.

Imagine if a chariot had come at a high rate of speed and run over the jailer before he got dunked in water.
Can you imagine the Lord telling Him at the Pearly Gates, "Sorry, you were not dunked."
That would have made the Lord liar, which He is not.

Water baptism never saves in the Bible.
Over & over, time & time again, salvation is for belief/faith alone.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
No ifs, ands, or buts.





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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Salvation is Offered Just for Belief

A lot of falsehood was posed below by someone who has been answered many times. If anyone is bothered or convinced by him, post me a question on his claims. In his falsehood, a bunch of nonsense was posted, denying Eph 2:

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

It says "not of works" and means just that.

As to faith/belief being the only human requirement for salvation, I post some evidence below; but it will take 2 postings, as this system will not receive so long a posting.

FAITH ALONE SAVES! NOTHING ELSE IS REQUIRED
-- PART 1 --


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believes him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believes on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believes not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Salvation is Offered Just for Belief -- Part 2 (Not Water Dunking)

FAITH ALONE SAVES! NOTHING ELSE IS REQUIRED

(WATER BAPTISM IS NOT REQUIRED)

-- PART 2 --



Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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As Salvation is Offered Just for Faith So Many Times, H2O Is Not Essential

I posted a ton of verses below where it is only faith or believing that saves.

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe . . . ." Acts 16

This is a
must do, believe. Water baptism is never called a must-do for salvation.
It is a work, and human works do not save.

The rare verses (which do not mention water) which associate baptism with salvation, cannot overrule the fact that a ton of verses which only require faith. If you believe & eat beans, yes you will be saved. But the beans are not essential for salvation.

The Lord does not make false promises or false advertisements.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Jn 3:5-----------spirit++++++++++++water[sic! out of order!] >>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor 12:13------spirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>in the body
False parallel

"How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Water baptism does not cause a flesh-new-birth. The water accompanies the old birth. Flesh born does not enter the Kingdom. Flesh & blood cannot inherit the Kingdom (1 Cor 15).
The requirement is born again, moving beyond water & flesh birth.

1 Cor 12:13


For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

No water in 1 Cor 12:13.
Your parallelism is clever, but contrived. And it proves nothing about a conversation many years before Spirit-baptism began.




Since there is just one way to be saved/born again
Agreed. Therefore water baptism cannot save, for many saints in the OT were never baptized. Neither was the thief on the cross; yet he went to paradise. Abraham was never baptized. Good one!

therefore both verses MUST say the same thing and "water" in Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized of 1 Cor 12:13.
If it is required to enter the Kingdom of God to be not only naturally born (water) but also born of the Spirit (new birth), that proves nothing about 1 Cor 12:13. To be baptized into the Body of Christ was not even available before Pentecost. In Acts 1 they were told that the Spirit baptism was yet future. It began in Acts 2. It is wrong that both passages must refer to the same thing.

Why would Jesus tell a full grown man standing in front of him "ye must be naturally born"? It makes Jesus look ridiculous in not understanding Nicodemas was ALREADY naturally born.
He did not tell Nicodemus that Nic needed a water-birth. Nic already had a water-birth. The Lord doesn't say "ye must be born of water." He says, "Except a man be born." The water birth already took place. The only thing the Jews needed as being born anew of the Spirit, which is intangible, as opposed to tangible water. The following rules out the splash of water in the Spirit produced new-birth.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew. The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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John 3 Has No Baptism (word is not there)

Jn 3:5-----------spirit++++++++++++water>>>>>>>in the kingdom
[error for water---Spirit>>>Kingdom of God]
1cor 12:13------spirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>in the body
[error for no water---Spirit baptized>>>One Body]
Jn 3:5: 1) born of water--- 2) and the Spirit>>> 3) kingdom of God.

1 Cor 12:13: 1) missing--- 2) Spirit baptized>>> 3) one body,

No water is in 1 Cor.
Born of the Spirit = regeneration of the Spirit, which is not baptism of the Spirit.
kingdom of God in John 3 is not the Body of Christ, the Church.
"Baptized" does not occur in John 3.

Baptism is simply not in John 3.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Water Baptism Is Not a Must-I-Do for salvation, Believe is the only Must-I-Do

As a human act, water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save.
Faith is the only human act (Must-I-Do) required for salvation.
The multitude of verses indicating only faith proves water baptism cannot be essential. The evidence is already posted below in 2 long posts.

Eph 2

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Acts 16:
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Believe is the only must-I-do.
The jailer did get water baptized soon after,
but water baptism is never a must-I-do for salvation.
 
May 2, 2014
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Can't find any reference that Paul the founder of the gentile church was baptized in water.
14 "Then he said,`The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.
15 `For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.
16 `And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.' (Act 22:14-16 NKJ)
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
This is one topic I haven't seen on this forum:

Is water baptism essential to salvation?
NO

Does it matter how you are baptized? (Sprinkled or fully immersed)
No, but baptize means to immerse, if the baptism was not done after a profession of faith I would request they get baptized as anything else is just getting wet and thats the biblical model that you get saved and then you get baptized.

Does it matter what is said when they baptize you? (Father, Son, Holy, In Jesus name, name of the Lord Jesus?)
You baptize in the name of the father the son and the holy ghost whether its one dip or three.
 
May 2, 2014
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Re: Water Baptism Is Not a Must-I-Do for salvation, Believe is the only Must-I-Do

As a human act, water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save.
Faith is the only human act (Must-I-Do) required for salvation.
The multitude of verses indicating only faith proves water baptism cannot be essential. The evidence is already posted below in 2 long posts.

Eph 2

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Acts 16:
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Believe is the only must-I-do.
The jailer did get water baptized soon after,
but water baptism is never a must-I-do for salvation.
That's not correct