It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Cody]

Cody,

Jesus Christ doesn't cast out! He prayed for those that spit Him, beat Him and crucified Him. It is people that reject His love! He will continue to love all of us forever! His love is like fire (Luke 24,32: 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”).

So, His love is like fire and unless we become ourselves fire (by learning by any means TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS), we are not going to stand His love! You have to understand that it is people that reject His love and that God's love falls upon everybody!

Simona, I do believe that it is people who reject Gods love and that God sent his Son out of love to take the punishment for sin. That is a love that is beyond anything human beings could possess. Scripture tells us that the message of the cross and the things of the spirit are foolishness to natural people 1 Cor 1:18 and 1 Cor 2:14. So in order for us to hear the gospel and understand it and believe it, we must be born again first otherwise we would reject the message outright because it will be foolish to us. If we are dead in our trespasses and sins it means that we are not going to respond to the things of the Spirit, we must be born again. The only way to be born again is through the mighty working of the Holy Spirit of God by his grace and mercy towards us. And as Jesus says, all who the Father gives Him will come. So I put it all together to mean that when you are born of the Spirit and believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ that you are given eternal life and no one and nothing can snatch it away from you. I do not believe that my will is more powerful than God's will who loves me and nothing can separate His love for me or anybody else who is appointed to eternal life acts 13:48. Amen

 

[Cody]

Falling away becomes unforgivable if that falling is to the extent that you stop believing, trusting, and following our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as some have done. This puts you back in the category of unbelief.

Matthew 25 for instance shows a picture in front of the judgment seat. Our Lord Jesus tells those that stand before Him by denying Him they were cast out. They ask Him how did we deny you, and He said you did not give me drink, food, or clothes. They replied to Him when did we not give you these things, and He said because you did not do for them you did not do for Me.

These people believed in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, but still denied Him by their actions ( works ).

People have watered down the unforgivable sin ( blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ) to just non-belief, but Jesus says otherwise. If you deny others you deny Him.

This is another one of those chapters in the bible OSAS faithful don't like because it goes against their philosophy.

This chapter doesn't go against eternal security if you interpret the chapter correctly and don't assume that the parable of the 10 virgins is talking about true born again believers.
The unpardonable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit isnt unbelief, it is calling the work of the Holy Spirit evil. Like the people in the context were doing.

 

[Atwood]

Falling away becomes unforgivable if that falling is to the extent that you stop believing, trusting, and following our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as some have done. This puts you back in the category of unbelief.

You make things up, Kenneth. When will you start trusting Him as Savior, instead of dismissing Him as "chance-giver"?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Matthew 25 for instance shows a picture in front of the judgment seat. Our Lord Jesus tells those that stand before Him by denying Him they were cast out. They ask Him how did we deny you, and He said you did not give me drink, food, or clothes. They replied to Him when did we not give you these things, and He said because you did not do for them you did not do for Me.

There it is again, you quote a passage that says nothing about a Savior who loved us, paid for our sins, and saves us. You are on a judgment passage, not a salvation passage.

These people believed in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, but still denied Him by their actions ( works ).

Do not utter falsehood, Kenneth.

People have watered down the unforgivable sin ( blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ) to just non-belief, but Jesus says otherwise. If you deny others you deny Him.

Again, you do not have your eyes on the Savior who saves; you are off topic of salvation.

This is another one of those chapters in the bible

which is not about the Savior saving.[/QUOTE]

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

""And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it."And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it." - 1 Thes 5

 

[kennethcadwell]

It does if you base it by the false philosophy of saved now.

Read my post #3209

In that post I list a bunch of scriptures that show that salvation does not come tell the end. From the sayings of our Lord to the Apostles stating the same principles. They show that we must endure to the end, stay firm, and so on to get the reward of salvation.



Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

This chapter doesn't go against eternal security if you interpret the chapter correctly and don't assume that the parable of the 10 virgins is talking about true born again believers.
The unpardonable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit isnt unbelief, it is calling the work of the Holy Spirit evil. Like the people in the context were doing.

 

[Atwood]

Why Not Focus on the Savior & His Salvation Promised?

Why cannot some understand that there is a Savior Who saves His people from their sins?

Some go here & there, to parables and metaphors, to judgment passages which concern works. But they don't somehow realize that they are not reading about the SAvior who saves. He is a Savior, the Savior; he is not just a chance giver.


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.



John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I now take and listen to the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ;
[h=1]Matthew 10:14[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet


All in Matthew 25 believed in Jesus, they would not have questioned how they denied Him if they didn't.

You make things up, Kenneth. When will you start trusting Him as Savior, instead of dismissing Him as "chance-giver"?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.



There it is again, you quote a passage that says nothing about a Savior who loved us, paid for our sins, and saves us. You are on a judgment passage, not a salvation passage.




Do not utter falsehood, Kenneth.



Again, you do not have your eyes on the Savior who saves; you are off topic of salvation.


which is not about the Savior saving.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

""And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it."And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it." - 1 Thes 5[/QUOTE]

 

[Atwood]

SALVATION IS NOW!

It does if you base it by the false philosophy of saved now.

Incredibly you go on about Rom 11 though it has been posted to you how that passage is about Israel's election & God's faithfulness to His promise; how the passage is not about individual salvation, but historical movements, Gentiles as a whole with singular pronoun thou. And the passage is not about a Savior who saves from sin. Why are you not able to understand how scripture tells us there is this Savior?

Saved now is not false. You are not even focused on being saved by a Savior at all.

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:


But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.


In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.


[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)


The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.


he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

 

[Atwood]

I now take and listen to the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ;
Matthew 10:14

[SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet


All in Matthew 25 believed in Jesus, they would not have questioned how they denied Him if they didn't.

Nonsense, deny does not occur in Mat 25. Quote a verse that says they all believed in Jesus. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus do not perish, but have everlasting life. Wake up, Kenneth. There is this Savior who saves His people from their sins!


For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

""And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it."And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it." - 1 Thes 5[/QUOTE]

 

[Simona25]

Simona, I do believe that it is people who reject Gods love and that God sent his Son out of love to take the punishment for sin.

Cody,

Please, tell me that by "punishment for sin" you do not understand the western idea that "God killed God (Jesus Christ) in order to satisfy His offended pride...

 

[Cody]

It does if you base it by the false philosophy of saved now.

Read my post #3209

In that post I list a bunch of scriptures that show that salvation does not come tell the end. From the sayings of our Lord to the Apostles stating the same principles. They show that we must endure to the end, stay firm, and so on to get the reward of salvation.



Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

So if you can be cut off of our salvation, how come Jesus says he will by no means cast us out?

 

[crossnote]

Salvation is one sided...relationship is two sided.

Salvation is by grace, I agree. But, it matters how we respond to this grace. That's what I meant to say.

our response starts the relationship

 

[Cody]

Cody,

Please, tell me that by "punishment for sin" you do not understand the western idea that "God killed God (Jesus Christ) in order to satisfy His offended pride...

God didnt do it to satisfy his "offended pride." He punished his Son because God is a just God and MUST punish sin. He will not pardon our sins, he MUST punish them to remain just. The only way for us to be forgiven for sin is by the blood of Jesus Christ who bore our sins upon himself 1 peter 2:24. Jesus is a propitiation for our sins Rom 3:25. This means that Jesus satisfied Gods wrath when he was judged on the cross. If you deny this, you deny the gospel and can not be saved. If Jesus did not take the wrath of God for OUR sins, then we are still in our sins and will be judged. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23. So God requires death to pay for sins. This is why Jesus had to die, he was to pay the debt for sin. If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins then you are lost and will be judged for your own sins.

 

[Cassian]

I can't believe that simona because the Lord says John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

So ALL God gives to his Son will come. Once God changes a persons heart by drawing them to himself, we do not turn down that awesome love that is revealed to us.

Every single human being was given to Christ. John 12:32, Col 1:20 and because Christ saved every single human being from death and sin, God can again call all men to repentance. Every single human being will give an active answer to that call from God. God does not change ones heart until one believes.
Also, several are confusing salvation with eternal life. These are two separate things. OSAS, ES, or OSS as Atwood wants to call it, is about receiving/attaining eternal life. It is NOT about salvation which Christ gave as a gift to the entire world.

Attaining eternal life is all about the way we live our lives. It is the molding into Christ Likeness, being transformed into His Likeness. It is a cooperative, synergistic relationship, man working with God to be perfected.

 

[Cassian]

He says you will persevere right here Phil 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is of the Lord Lam 3:26
The Lord is at work regarding salvation Phil 2:12-13
And when God begins, he WILL finish it phil 1:6

This is eternal security taught in scripture as opposed to a false believe that we can somehow mess up what God is doing in us.

Scripture does not teach eternal security as defined in this thread. Man is in a relationship with God that is mutual and covenantal. Each party to the relationship has obligations to meet. If we don't meet ours, we cannot attain eternal life.
Since man is the weak link in the relationship it can change at any time. There is nothing that man can do to guarantee his faith, except live in faith day by day. God does not guarantee your faith. If He did, there would be no need for a judgement. If it is one-sided and man is an inert, passive receptacle then we are not responsible for our actions and sin.

 

[Cassian]

The parable of the 4 soils says nothing about losing salvation. In fact it says nothing about a Savior saving. You are stuck in your unbiblical rut. Apostasy is explained in 1 John 2 as proving that persons were never part of the body of Christ, or they would have remained with the Body.

You are confused on the use of salvation and eternal life. These are NOT the same thing. Christ saved the world, mankiind from death and sin, that is salvation from death and sin. Christ did it, man has nothing to do with it. It is a gift given to every single human being. Because of that Gift, God also offers all men eternal life with Him which is what man must accept or reject. Man can accept and reject later if he so chooses. YOu have not given any evidence that man can guarantee his faith. We are being saved through our faith, not by Christ alone. You might have an easier time understanding scripture if you understood the terminology, or maybe in your case, you redefine it so that it fits your false theory.

 

[Cassian]

This chapter doesn't go against eternal security if you interpret the chapter correctly and don't assume that the parable of the 10 virgins is talking about true born again believers.
The unpardonable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit isnt unbelief, it is calling the work of the Holy Spirit evil. Like the people in the context were doing.

Every single one of the 10 virgins are born again believers. The context of this parable and several others before and after is all about what His Kingdom is like. His Kingdom is the Body of Christ. YOu canot get into the Body of Christ unless one believes and is baptised. So when Jesus is speaking about the Kingdom, He is speaking about His Body. Christ's first words of His ministry was, Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Why Not Focus on the Savior & His Salvation Promised?

Why cannot some understand that there is a Savior Who saves His people from their sins?

Some go here & there, to parables and metaphors, to judgment passages which concern works. But they don't somehow realize that they are not reading about the SAvior who saves. He is a Savior, the Savior; he is not just a chance giver.


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.



John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Because you are going all over the map trying in vain to support an errant doctrine. All of your opponents have explained it very well regarding what our relationship entails, how to attain eternal life, that we are being saved through faith, not by Christ alone. You have so man errant teachings that it is difficult to keep you on the right track.

The only ones that have not given any evidence for eternal security is you. Where is the scripture that supports this view? You have denied most of scripture just to keep your view afloat. You are the one that sinks it every time because most of the texts you cite all have conditions attached to them. It denies the active working of man with God, which is why God created us. You have this idea that God is going to do for you, what you were created to do for Him.

Sounds like a lot of people in the secular world as well. Give it to the government, and then blame everyone else for their problems.

 

[Cassian]

God didnt do it to satisfy his "offended pride." He punished his Son because God is a just God and MUST punish sin. He will not pardon our sins, he MUST punish them to remain just. The only way for us to be forgiven for sin is by the blood of Jesus Christ who bore our sins upon himself 1 peter 2:24. Jesus is a propitiation for our sins Rom 3:25. This means that Jesus satisfied Gods wrath when he was judged on the cross. If you deny this, you deny the gospel and can not be saved. If Jesus did not take the wrath of God for OUR sins, then we are still in our sins and will be judged. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23. So God requires death to pay for sins. This is why Jesus had to die, he was to pay the debt for sin. If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins then you are lost and will be judged for your own sins.

I see that the false Anselmian theory of the Satisfaction theory of Atonement is alive and well.

 

[Billyd]

Scripture does not teach eternal security as defined in this thread. Man is in a relationship with God that is mutual and covenantal. Each party to the relationship has obligations to meet. If we don't meet ours, we cannot attain eternal life.
Since man is the weak link in the relationship it can change at any time. There is nothing that man can do to guarantee his faith, except live in faith day by day. God does not guarantee your faith. If He did, there would be no need for a judgement. If it is one-sided and man is an inert, passive receptacle then we are not responsible for our actions and sin.

So all I have to do is live by faith every day. Why did God send Jesus to the Earth? You should take a very careful look at John chapter 3. It explains very clearly without picking any individual scriptures to justify your position. If you "Believe" (not say you believe, think you believe, want to believe, may believe in the future), you will be saved. That is why God sent Jesus to the Earth. If you deny that, then all you can do is work your way straight to Hell.

 

[newbirth]

Yes, if you neglect, you are in bad shape.
And regardless of what you say, the scripture says how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation

So don't neglect the great salvation; don't downgrade it to a shot at making it. Don't belittle it.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

(not "He shall give them a chance if they be good boys")

He saves to the uttermost.
He is the author & perfecter of out faith.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Here is the evidence of a double minded man or a man who speaks with a forked tongue...in one statement agrees and disagrees