It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

There is a difference between being backsliden and being apostate. Back sliding, you still believe, you just don't walk the walk. Being apostate you make a conscious decision to deny the Christ.

Backslider is not found in the NT. Now if you have never trusted Christ as Savior (perhaps because in unbelief you insist on demoting Him to chance-giver) then indeed you may be apostate for having joined a local church, believed some facts, but then denied those facts & departed. A born again Christian can temporarily stumble (in many things we all stumble, as James says. He can temporarily put on the Old Man -- wrong clothes -- and be carnal.

But the whole thing is an academic exercise until one actually trusts the Lord Jesus as Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Anyone who has down-graded the Savior to a chance-giver, is urged to trust Him as Savior.

 

[Atwood]

ES Means Trust in the Savior; Not Trust in Our Abilities

Eternal Security Means Trusting a Savior, Not Trust in Self.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

That means that I do not trust in my good works,
nor do I trust in my ability to have faith.
Nor do I trust in my ability to defeat the world, the flesh, and the devil.
I do not have my own ability to defeat my flesh, my Old Man, and to stop myself from sinning.
My faith is in my Savior to save me from my sins.

Through God we shall do valiantly:
For He it is Who will tread down our adversaries. - Ps 108

 

[RickyZ]

if this is so then there is a middle ground ...
John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

people teach one can do all sorts of ungodly things and still be a believer,,,believer in what? when one believes in Christ he gets power to become a son...power to follow the spirit. When one stop following the spirit they give up the power or neglect the power to become a son. They no longer believe , the proof of your belief is in your actions.

Your works have absolutely nothing to do with your salvation. You can neither work your way into heaven nor can you work your way out of heaven. Salvation is a free gift based SOLELY upon accepting Christ as your Savior. Now, having accepted Christ, you will be judged according to your works and suffer gain/loss for them. And your works will serve as evidence of your commitment (or lack thereof) to the Holy Spirit. But as for the actual getting in, there is one and only one way to do that, and it ain't by being a choir-boy.

 

[RickyZ]

Backslider is not found in the NT. Now if you have never trusted Christ as Savior (perhaps because in unbelief you insist on demoting Him to chance-giver) then indeed you may be apostate for having joined a local church, believed some facts, but then denied those facts & departed. A born again Christian can temporarily stumble (in many things we all stumble, as James says. He can temporarily put on the Old Man -- wrong clothes -- and be carnal.

But the whole thing is an academic exercise until one actually trusts the Lord Jesus as Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Anyone who has down-graded the Savior to a chance-giver, is urged to trust Him as Savior.

That's true, "backslider" like rapture and many other terms are man made descriptors.

 

[Atwood]

The Great Catch Up -- no mustard

That's true, "backslider" like rapture and many other terms are man made descriptors.

Well, Ricky, as I'm sure you agree, some of the descriptors may be legit, like "Trinity." As to rapture, that one is not quite man made, except to the extent that the whole English language is man made. 1 Th 4:17 has harpagesometha which is translated into Latin as rapiemur (Latin vulgate) which means in English, We shall be raptured. So yes, the exact word Rapture is not there, but "we shall be raptured" is. (rapture meaning catch up [no mustard] or catching up)
-- not that Christians are going to agree on when it happens.

 

[Atwood]

Your works have absolutely nothing to do with your salvation. You can neither work your way into heaven nor can you work your way out of heaven. Salvation is a free gift based SOLELY upon accepting Christ as your Savior. Now, having accepted Christ, you will be judged according to your works and suffer gain/loss for them. And your works will serve as evidence of your commitment (or lack thereof) to the Holy Spirit. But as for the actual getting in, there is one and only one way to do that, and it ain't by being a choir-boy.

I can't say I disagree with that post, Ricky. But I myself don't like the expression "accept Christ," since it is not in the Bible, and I used it as an unsaved church member before I was saved. Receive is used in John 1:12, and receive is pretty close to accept.

 

[newbirth]

Your works have absolutely nothing to do with your salvation. You can neither work your way into heaven nor can you work your way out of heaven. Salvation is a free gift based SOLELY upon accepting Christ as your Savior. Now, having accepted Christ, you will be judged according to your works and suffer gain/loss for them. And your works will serve as evidence of your commitment (or lack thereof) to the Holy Spirit. But as for the actual getting in, there is one and only one way to do that, and it ain't by being a choir-boy.

bold statement with no scripture to support

 

[newbirth]

I can't say I disagree with that post, Ricky. But I myself don't like the expression "accept Christ," since it is not in the Bible, and I used it as an unsaved church member before I was saved. Receive is used in John 1:12, and receive is pretty close to accept.

yep receive and John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[Skinski7]

Backslider is not found in the NT. Now if you have never trusted Christ as Savior (perhaps because in unbelief you insist on demoting Him to chance-giver) then indeed you may be apostate for having joined a local church, believed some facts, but then denied those facts & departed. A born again Christian can temporarily stumble (i.e rape babies or murder people) (in many things we all stumble, as James says. He can temporarily (rape babies, murder people, scam people) put on the Old Man -- wrong clothes -- and be carnal.

But the whole thing is an academic exercise until one actually trusts the Lord Jesus as Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Anyone who has down-graded the Savior to a chance-giver, is urged to trust Him as Savior.

You're preaching a sinning religion. Once Saved Always Saved from what exactly?

 

[Skinski7]

The one reason this entire thread is full of nonsense is that people are equating salvation with some abstract standing which is disconnected from actually being saved from being a bond servant to sin.

A drowning person who is rescued and pulled upon a boat doesn't occasionally lapse back into the water gasping for breath as they drown a little again.

When Jesus Christ saves someone from sin He literally saves them from sin. It is sin that brings with it the wages of death and the purpose of the Gospel is to extricate people from sin itself so that they no longer earn those wages.

God doesn't forgive rapists so they can keep on raping. God forgives people who have been delivered from being bond servants to rape, thus His mercy in no way can be said to be a license for sin and thus be unjust mercy. Any notion that God has provided some means to forgive people whilst they remain in the service of sin (and thus enemies of God) is satanic doctrine.

 

[Skinski7]

If the old man is not crucified in repentance it never ever will be. There is an abundance of theology today which utterly denies the reality of the old man being put to death once and for all. It is in the putting to death of the old man (who served sin) that one may be a new creation in Christ (who serves righteousness). The two paths of service are diametrically opposed and one cannot serve both. This is not to say that those whom are born again never make mistakes due to limited experience and knowledge, what it does say is that those whom are born again are not in rebellion to God anymore and thus they receive correction and put that correction into application.

It is so sad that so many people want to buy into this "easy religion" of an abstract salvation which is totally disconnected from the actual manifest state of their heart. Thus they easily fall for well crafted doctrines which teach that one can indeed engage in sin (doing known wrong) and not surely die.

 

[newbirth]

Backslider is not found in the NT. Now if you have never trusted Christ as Savior (perhaps because in unbelief you insist on demoting Him to chance-giver) then indeed you may be apostate for having joined a local church, believed some facts, but then denied those facts & departed. A born again Christian can temporarily stumble (in many things we all stumble, as James says. He can temporarily put on the Old Man -- wrong clothes -- and be carnal.

But the whole thing is an academic exercise until one actually trusts the Lord Jesus as Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Anyone who has down-graded the Savior to a chance-giver, is urged to trust Him as Savior.

A born again Christian can temporarily stumble (in many things we all stumble, as James says. He can temporarily put on the Old Man -- wrong clothes -- and be carnal.

James never said that , you are saying that, So you can temporarily go fornicate ,rob and God is OK with that.

 

[Alligator]

There is a difference between being backsliden and being apostate. Back sliding, you still believe, you just don't walk the walk. Being apostate you make a conscious decision to deny the Christ.

Backslider is not found in the NT. Now if you have never trusted Christ as Savior (perhaps because in unbelief you insist on demoting Him to chance-giver) then indeed you may be apostate for having joined a local church, believed some facts, but then denied those facts & departed. A born again Christian can temporarily stumble (in many things we all stumble, as James says. He can temporarily put on the Old Man -- wrong clothes -- and be carnal.

But the whole thing is an academic exercise until one actually trusts the Lord Jesus as Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Anyone who has down-graded the Savior to a chance-giver, is urged to trust Him as Savior.

Here's a news flash for you Atwood. Just because someone doesn't share your phony ES or OSAS theory, doesn't mean that they, to use your worn out expression, don't trust in Jesus as Savior. Understand ? I didn't think so.

 

[Skinski7]

James never said that , you are saying that, So you can temporarily go fornicate ,rob and God is OK with that.

It is not that people will say that "God is ok with it" because they certainly don't. It is they disconnect the heart condition (which produces fornication and stealing) from the salvation experience.

Thus the salvation these people are discussing is not actually salvation at all but rather an abstract position that one is believed to hold. In effect salvation is a "position" or "standing" as opposed to an actual "transformation."

The debate of OSAS vs non-OSAS is a total farce because the underlying meaning of salvation itself is false. Both sides will provide Bible verses to support their case and what is often not understood is that the Bible is not a book of proof texts. There is a spirit behind the Bible and therefore the Bible must be read through that spirit.

Look at this entire thread. It is a pointless exercise because all it really consists of is people bashing each other with scripture as opposed to conducting oneself in the spirit with sound reasoning.

What did Adam and Eve do in the garden? They chose to disobey God and serve sin.

What did God say to Cain? God told Cain that sin lies at the door but that Cain should rule over it. Cain did not heed that advice and instead let sin rule over him.

Paul taught that we are slaves to whom we obey, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness.

The salvation that God offers involves us being set free from a state where sin rules over us. When we are not ruled over by sin we rule over it. We are no longer are subject to be sins servant because our hearts have been transformed and instead we become subject to righteousness.

The fallacy inherent in the majority of modern theology is how they define salvation as being something abstract and due to this there is a vast construction of doctrine which makes allowance for the ongoing service of sin as being normal. This is why people like Atwood claim that those whom are saved can "stumble" into sin. There is no such thing as stumbling into sin because sin is a choice, it is an exercise of the will to do evil when one knows it is evil and it is for this reason that the end result is death.

One does not stumble into theft, rape, murder, scamming, being cruel etc. Those things are choices and the root of those choices is a corrupt and selfish heart. It is through the repentance and faith that the corrupt and selfish heart is dealt with whereby God can then manifest directly into an individual as the resistance has ceased. God simply will not dwell within a rebel, God does not force transformation upon a sinner. His grace is present but we have to enter into that grace via faith, a working faith which is wrought through opening ourselves up to the will of God, an opening that can only occur through a genuine repentance (where the mind truly changes and whereby one comes into full agreement with God).

 

[Atwood]

Look at this entire thread. It is a pointless exercise

What is pointless are your unfounded and unproven accusations. You make up things. You prove nothing from God's word. This is all Skinski & his grand judgments. It is not pointless to proclaim the truth of Christ's salvation; how He is a SAvior and not a mere chance giver.

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

This is why people like Atwood claim that those whom are saved can "stumble" into sin.

Kindly refrain from making up things and arguing vs straw men. Let's see your proof for that accusation. Backquote where I ever said that.

It is through the repentance and faith that the corrupt and selfish heart is dealt with whereby God can then manifest directly into an individual as the resistance has ceased.

Note how you pontificate. That is you saying it, Skinski. Why should anyone believe things becs you say them?

The only repentance that saves is a change of mind from not-trusting the Savior, to trusting the Savior.
Over & over, time & time again, salvation is offered just for believing or trusting Christ as Savior. I have posted a huge number of verse on this.

For example, Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], and you shall be saved. In conformity with that fact, repentance is a change of mind (metanoia) from non-trust to trust in the Savior.

 

[Atwood]

Here's a news flash for you Atwood. Just because someone doesn't share your phony ES or OSAS theory, doesn't mean that they, to use your worn out expression, don't trust in Jesus as Savior. Understand ? I didn't think so.

Newsflash:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

If anyone has reduced the Lord Jesus to a mere chance-giver, let Him repent & trust the Lord Jesus as His Savior.

 

[Atwood]

James never said that , you are saying that, So you can temporarily go fornicate ,rob and God is OK with that.

< James 3 " Be not many of you teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment. For in many things we all stumble."

All Christians stumble, that is we all sin, even Bible teachers.

How much more unbelievers sin (Rom 1-3).

If God is not OK with your sin, O NewB, what are you going to do about it? You will be sinning all your life. Are you going to get asbestos underwear?

Or will you trust the Lord Jesus to save you from your sin?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin.

This has nothing to do with God being OK with your sin, NewB. It has to do with a loving Savior who paid for your sins on the cross. By refusing to trust Him as Savior, you do not decrease your sin at all.

He is not a mere chance-giver, but the Savior.
If you have downgraded Him to chance-giver, repent & trust Him to save you from your sin & give you eternal life.

 

[Atwood]

There is an abundance of theology today

Skinski, are you in the same denomination as Cassian? Your style is like his in that you think you can just run on saying things, making assertions, pontification, proving nothing. It goes nowhere.


For the sake of the audience:

The entrance of God's Word brings light.

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Originally Posted by RickyZ

Your works have absolutely nothing to do with your salvation. You can neither work your way into heaven nor can you work your way out of heaven. Salvation is a free gift based SOLELY upon accepting Christ as your Savior. Now, having accepted Christ, you will be judged according to your works and suffer gain/loss for them. And your works will serve as evidence of your commitment (or lack thereof) to the Holy Spirit. But as for the actual getting in, there is one and only one way to do that, and it ain't by being a choir-boy.

bold statement with no scripture to support

One thing NewB does is quote scripture, & I commend him for it, and for requiring Bible proof.

Let me help out by quoting from Eph 2:

For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

The judgment seat of Christ (Bema) is where the Chr's works are judged for reward or loss of reward. 1 & 2 Corinthians describe that.

That works follow faith is next up in Eph 2: For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works.

Lastly on choir-boy, let us quote Hezekiah 9:6: "Verily all choir-boys go to the Lake of Fire."
(LOL)

 

[Atwood]

the reality of the old man being put to death once and for all.

You quote no proof of this, but since I spent a long time researching out the Old Man and the flesh, I will share my conclusions:

1) the Flesh is an active force in the Christian life (Gal 5: The flesh lusts).

2) By comparing the Flesh (old human nature) with the Old Man, there are no distinguishing characteristics whereby one would be any different from the other. I conclude they are the same.

3) the old man was co-crucified with Christ by our baptism into Christ (not water) Rom 6. Neither death nor crucifixion implies non-existence. Death is separation; the Old Man has been decisively separated from the one who trusts Christ as Savior, but it can spring into action at any time (Rom 7: when the commandment came, sin revived, & I died). The Old Man & New Man are alternative morphai or clothes that a Christian can wear (Ephesians, Colossians, Rom 13).

I think the establishment of the doctrine of the Old Man is beyond my time on this thread. Some Christians deny that the Old Man is yet around -- yet they can still endorse Eternal Security. Some distinguish the Old Man & the Flesh, which I don't think is possible.

If I am correct that beget/begat/begotten passages of 1 John & Peter imply that the new nature cannot sin, an old nature must be necessary to account for sin in the Christian life.

But I think this goes beyond this thread & what is necessary to establish that the Lord actually gives eternal life to the believer.

1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”