The cost of marrying an undercover christian

[Stephen63]

You know sunburn, you keep talking about "behaviours".

But being a Christian has absolutely NOTHING to do with behaviours. It is a relationship with Christ that determines whether we are Christians.

God does not change our behaviours, he changes our hearts. He works from the inside out. You may be seeing some things on the outside you don't agree with. But give God the time and the grace to make changes on the inside, which are not superficial, not mere adherence to social norms or codes, but rather, to become closer to the image on the inside, which will eventually manifest as a changed person on the outside.

I am a total loss of understanding why you say behavior has nothing to do with our relationship with Christ.

Matthew 23:25-26 (NASB) [SUP]25 [/SUP]"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. [SUP]26 [/SUP]"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it (behavior) may become clean also.

Christian behavior is a direct result of what's inside.

Matthew 7:18-20 (NASB) [SUP]18 [/SUP]"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Galatians 5:22-24 (NASB) [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

All the fruit of the Spirit is manifested in our behavior....... or the lack thereof.

 

[BeeD]

"So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, [SUP]32 [/SUP]and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32

The catch is that you have to know ALL of God's Word, and then you will find the truth of God's love, mercy and grace.

I am always very amused with people who do not know the Bible and get bitter and resentful and think people are prideful who do!

OK Angela, we both know this is for me so I will respond. I contacted you through Private Message in order to avoid a conversation such as this in open forum. But as soon as I said something that you didn't agree with you got angry...said your mind, and then blocked me to where I could not respond. That is not "Christian behavior."....but it is still your right, I suppose. And I will still be respectful here. You want people to receive correction from you but you refuse to receive correction from others as if you are 100 percent correct in everything you say, and you are not. Then as soon as someone dares to question you, you attack them and throw your degrees and how much Greek you know and the like, at them to attempt to prove your point. I am having my last say here to you because you would not allow it by blocking me from responding to you in a PM. To respond to you....No I am not taking Sunburn's side. Just because I agree with something someone said does not mean I have befriended them as you said, nor that I have taken that person's side. I don't know Sunburn, just like I don't know you, so I am only choosing the side of what's right, not the side of a person. I am not angry with you and I haven't blocked you, nor will I block you from Private Messaging me as you have done me, because I believe right or wrong, people have a right to be heard. But may God show you better. It is sad though when a person feel they know so much that they can't be taught, nor corrected by ANYONE. Now THAT is PRIDE.

 

[BeeD]

I am a total loss of understanding why you say behavior has nothing to do with our relationship with Christ.

Matthew 23:25-26 (NASB) [SUP]25 [/SUP]"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. [SUP]26 [/SUP]"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it (behavior) may become clean also.

Christian behavior is a direct result of what's inside.

Matthew 7:18-20 (NASB) [SUP]18 [/SUP]"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Galatians 5:22-24 (NASB) [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

All the fruit of the Spirit is manifested in our behavior....... or the lack thereof.

THANK YOU Stephen63. I don't see how any mature Christian could really possibly believe that one's behavior has nothing to do with their being a Christian. THAT is not biblical...AT ALL.

 

[Angela53510]

I am a total loss of understanding why you say behavior has nothing to do with our relationship with Christ.

Matthew 23:25-26 (NASB) [SUP]25 [/SUP]"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. [SUP]26 [/SUP]"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it (behavior) may become clean also.

Christian behavior is a direct result of what's inside.

Matthew 7:18-20 (NASB) [SUP]18 [/SUP]"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Galatians 5:22-24 (NASB) [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

All the fruit of the Spirit is manifested in our behavior....... or the lack thereof.

Stephen, that is exactly what I have been trying to say. I even quoted Gal. 5:22-23 in my post on the first page.

We have the Holy Spirit in our hearts, changing us from within, which changes the outside. But if we ONLY look at behaviour or conduct, then any moral atheist is a Christian. It is about the changes God brings in our hearts that makes the difference.

The OP was about the outside, not the inner heart, is my point!

We simply cannot start with the outside, but need to be cleaned from within, by the Holy Spirit, and changed by the same Spirit. Anything else is not the gospel!

 

[dabodab]

As for sunburn, thanks for posting all your PM's about me. I will pray that God will restore your faith, which does not seem to be based on the Bible - which is the basis for my posts. Please read the Bible, and I know God will heal you of your hurts.

As for Secular Hermit, he is a wonderful, kind man. Sometimes you do have to read between the lines, but he has been through a lot of hurt too in this life, but has retained a vibrant faith in God. And in the end, that is all that counts.

sunburn to Angela53510: I have not read your response mainly because I Do not consider you as a respectful person.
So please refrain from answering my thread...at least not directly to me.

Hi Angela53510,


With all due respect, the OP asked you not to communicate with her further in this thread. You spoke to her directly here, after she asked you not to. Why must you keep haranguing her when she clearly asked you to refrain from doing so...and especially after she left the board, as evidenced in post #24, and cannot therefore defend her position?


Angela53510, you are disrespectful and disruptive here. You are sneakily offensive and cruel at others' expense, and using God's word to do it. I resent this a lot.

Let me try to clear something up for you.

You said to sunburn "thanks for posting all your PM's about me". Did you mean that sarcastically? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and proceed as if you were being literal, since It appears sarcasm is not your style.

If you had taken the time to read the ONE SINGLE 'personal' message (PM) sunburn posted for all the board to see, you would have seen content was not even about you, but a warning to secularhermit that he may be responding to YOUR posts without realizing it. In other words, sunburn was afraid secularhermit thought he was responding to her (sunburn) posts, and responding to yours by mistake. You have seen secularhermit get confused before. You, yourself have become confused in the past, as have I, about who or what we were responding to. Do you now understand? I hope you do.

secularhermit really crossed a line when he asked sunburn, on the public board, to reveal her 'personal' message (PM) to the board. secularhermit revealed TO THE BOARD that sunburn spoke your name in that 'personal' message (PM) she sent him.

Here's the post:

#19 secularhermit to sunburn:
You PMed me blaming Angela for something funny I saw you were posteing elsewhere, few minutes back, and I asked you to tell her what you wrote...


Here is another costs someone would pay.

Amazingly, you didn't catch that. I thought you would! Not sure what the 'another costs someone would pay' comment is in reference to. Maybe secularhermit can clear that up.

Then, sunburn made public the PM between her and secularhermit, warming that secularhermit was confused about her motivation with regards to writing the message; here is sunburn's post:

#26 sunburn:
HERE IS THE PM I WROTE TO SECULAR TELLING HIM ABOUT HIM CONFUSING POSTS ON THE OTHER THREAD.
I THINK ITS IMPORTANT THAT HE DOES NOT IMPLY THAT I WAS TALKING TO HIM ABOUT ANOTHER POSTER
Re: Hi secular


I hope you know it's Angela who posted all the msgs you are quoting...
Not me...


blessings

Now, secularhermit:

Hi, sunborn!


It doesn´t matter who! I just saw the funny thing THERE. I have not problems with my identity BUT, why don´t you post this on THERE, there wasn´t a real need (for me) to be informed of things I can read and be informed.


I wondered what would Nagela would say at this PM you sent. Ha! Ha!


I leave it at your will.


Bye!

Notice the Ha! Ha! and question about what you would think. Are you paying attention? I'm thinking about a scripture, are you thinking it too? About stirring up strife? We don't need to look up the scripture. It's okay.

The truth was right there for you to read. But, you weren't paying attention. A little discernment may have been in order. There are personal things happening here but you don't notice them. Kind of like a Pharisee you are busy quoting scripture without looking at the hearts.

You accused sunburn of something she didn't do, with your reference to multiple PM's about YOU. You praise a user who pitted you and sunburn against each other. And it's all here for everyone to see, but you totally missed it. You were double crossed.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to your sour affect on Jesus' sheep in here and feed them, really really really feed them. Not accuse them.

 

[ww_21]

I know Angela, and she is very kind and I will never believe anything anyone has to say against her because she has proven time after time to be a Godly woman.

 

[secularhermit]

Now I see love discovered!

Again, sorry!

I wish I could be there to hug.

 

[secularhermit]

This the PM I received:

[h=2]

sunburn[/h]

It is my thought also that she is a man, and probably not from Britain. In fact, I posted a lot of Scriptures on a different thread in the family forum, and she refused to read them.

My thought this is a troll. Not even a Christian. Forget the strong, and think trolls! LOL

Thanks for your posting after her on that thread and defending me. I was perhaps a little over the top. Another of God's "in progress' works.

God bless (for real)
Angela

That´s why I rather kept my PM swithed off. If I´m afraid to speak aloud and publicly, I´m afraid I´m loosing freedom.

What I said, in turn, was this:

Originally Posted by secularhermit
HI, Angela!

I´m also fighting to "know" who is who but, who knows? She (he) could be a real sunburn.
I like several of his ideas, however, but TOOO few people will admit several things "she" had mentioned.

I rather like people confessing His / her sins than going against genders or social classes. It sad! Sometimes I don´t (like) this fight and I hope "his" or "her" ideas help other people to think we, men with women, need one another.

This knowing it brings me joy and praises to think in God.

Thank you, too

P.S. Note: I added (like) which I forgot writing and the colors and bold letters.

If I need to say more, please, poke on me.
​

 

[tourist]

I know Angela, and she is very kind and I will never believe anything anyone has to say against her because she has proven time after time to be a Godly woman.

I agree with you. She is a gem.

 

[dabodab]

This the PM I received:

sunburn

It is my thought also that she is a man, and probably not from Britain. In fact, I posted a lot of Scriptures on a different thread in the family forum, and she refused to read them.

My thought this is a troll. Not even a Christian. Forget the strong, and think trolls! LOL

Thanks for your posting after her on that thread and defending me. I was perhaps a little over the top. Another of God's "in progress' works.

God bless (for real)
Angela

That´s why I rather kept my PM swithed off. If I´m afraid to speak aloud and publicly, I´m afraid I´m loosing freedom.

What I said, in turn, was this:

Originally Posted by secularhermit
HI, Angela!

I´m also fighting to "know" who is who but, who knows? She (he) could be a real sunburn.
I like several of his ideas, however, but TOOO few people will admit several things "she" had mentioned.

I rather like people confessing His / her sins than going against genders or social classes. It sad! Sometimes I don´t (like) this fight and I hope "his" or "her" ideas help other people to think we, men with women, need one another.

This knowing it brings me joy and praises to think in God.

Thank you, too

P.S. Note: I added (like) which I forgot writing and the colors and bold letters.

If I need to say more, please, poke on me.
​

Angela53510 IS sarcastic, Ouch.

So there is a covert operation going on behind the scenes where we are being accused. Why am I surprised?

sunburn isn't really a woman, but a man
sunburn isn't a Brit
sunburn isn't a Christian

and, in effect,

sunburn isn't real.

WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG???

I wish to say much more but am constrained.

It is clear we should mind our p's and q's so as not to be dealt with in an accusatory manner by paranoid posters.

Shouldn't troll patrol be administered by the moderators?

This is all that will be said on this matter by me.

 

[sunburn]

We don't fight against flesh and blood.

The work of Satan within the body of Christ is real.
We all make mistakes, we are all saved by grace…but what about those who regardless keep on hurting, and deceiving others and themselves?

There is a thin line between Pride and Fall...

Being a christian doesn't immune us from the work of the Devil. We are advised to pray continuously for the evil one can use every opening we give him. And if we are not careful to let God cleanse us , teach us, if we are not humble enough, we will end up deceiving ourselves with our own reasoning and self proclaimed wisdom.

On a side note, even if the forum seem to work for some as a popularity contest, it is important to call out bad behaviours when one sees it even if that bad behaviour comes from a dear friend …Thank God for friendships…

I have gone too far with the Lord to be discouraged by a few. If my misfortunes , my trauma did not take me away from his hands, it's not what a couple of strangers would say about me on a forum, that would.

So I appreciate words of encouragement from the meak at heart in this forum…Even those who disagreed with me but were not attacking me directly as a person. I appreciate rebuke. I appreciate correction when it comes from the Lord.

One last question or comment:

If a homeless knocks on my door and say, I need some clothes, I am poor; would I look at him in the eyes and say to him: " Sir I am doing this because Matthew 25.36 says: I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."
I would sound ridiculous.I already know in my heart what I need to do...

Yet this is what some of you are doing; trying to prove your point by quoting the scriptures to anyone as a matter of duty of religious principle just to appear holy and knowledgable.
You are doing this with the wrong motives.
Assuming for one minute, I was not a christian like some of you think, do you sincerely think I will understand your spiritual jargons?

Let those who have ears, listen.

 

[sunburn]

May be I need to start another thread on the subject on quoting scriptures…

I do sincerely appreciate christian who are knowledgeable and educate themselves with the word ; it's just that sometimes the very people who do this are most of the times religious hypocrites.
Only by their fruit, you will know them..not by what they preach.

 

[dabodab]

May be I need to start another thread on the subject on quoting scriptures…

Ack! You were doing so well... <wink>




Welcome back.

I love what you said here:

I have gone too far with The Lord to be discouraged by a few. If my misfortune, my trauma, did not take me away from His hands, it's not what a couple of strangers would say about me on a forum, that would.

 

[dabodab]

Ack! You were doing so well... <wink>

Sorry I seemingly kicked you when you were down! Please forgive.

If you reply here, others who check the post on the front of the board will know you are here again. I'm learning the fine art of correctly posting on a board and what others see... I would like very much that your name be last on this thread to have posted, not mine! I should have just settled for 'like'ing your post. <smile>

Am so interested in learning from others' successes and not only from my own mistakes. Patience with myself is key here.

 

[sunburn]

Sorry I seemingly kicked you when you were down! Please forgive.

If you reply here, others who check the post on the front of the board will know you are here again. I'm learning the fine art of correctly posting on a board and what others see... I would like very much that your name be last on this thread to have posted, not mine! I should have just settled for 'like'ing your post. <smile>

Am so interested in learning from others' successes and not only from my own mistakes. Patience with myself is key here.

No you did well.
I shouldn't have added anything else.
Thank you.

 

[Tintin]

Sunburn, you're shooting yourself in the foot! eg. "I'm a godly woman look at me as I gossip about others and condemn them! Yay." (That was sarcasm).

I've known Angela for a reasonable amount of time on CC and you haven't. I know she's not perfect, but I either am I, or you for that matter (sorry, bud!) I disagree with Angela on some things but that doesn't mean she disrespects me (or you), it means she and I agree. The victim mentality is doing nothing for your 'cause'. Despite these differences, I consider Angela one of the most godly women here at CC and probably the wisest but she also has Christian humility and refers people back to the Bible, to investigate God's Word for themselves. All I've seen from you, on the other hand, is bad fruit. Maybe that's not you, I dearly hope that's the case. Either way, you need to examine your own heart and look to Christ to help you become more like Him. As do we all.

 

[ww_21]

Sunburn, you're shooting yourself in the foot! eg. "I'm a godly woman look at me as I gossip about others and condemn them! Yay." (That was sarcasm).

I've known Angela for a reasonable amount of time on CC and you haven't. I know she's not perfect, but I either am I, or you for that matter (sorry, bud!) I disagree with Angela on some things but that doesn't mean she disrespects me (or you), it means she and I agree. The victim mentality is doing nothing for your 'cause'. Despite these differences, I consider Angela one of the most godly women here at CC and probably the wisest but she also has Christian humility and refers people back to the Bible, to investigate God's Word for themselves. All I've seen from you, on the other hand, is bad fruit. Maybe that's not you, I dearly hope that's the case. Either way, you need to examine your own heart and look to Christ to help you become more like Him. As do we all.

 

[Tintin]

Sunburn, you're shooting yourself in the foot! eg. "I'm a godly woman look at me as I gossip about others and condemn them! Yay." (That was sarcasm).

I've known Angela for a reasonable amount of time on CC and you haven't. I know she's not perfect, but I either am I, or you for that matter (sorry, bud!) I disagree with Angela on some things but that doesn't mean she disrespects me (or you), it means she and I disagree. The victim mentality is doing nothing for your 'cause'. Despite these differences, I consider Angela one of the most godly women here at CC and probably the wisest but she also has Christian humility and refers people back to the Bible, to investigate God's Word for themselves. All I've seen from you, on the other hand, is bad fruit. Maybe that's not you, I dearly hope that's the case. Either way, you need to examine your own heart and look to Christ to help you become more like Him. As do we all.

Oops, a few letters difference, makes all of the difference.

 

[tourist]

Sunburn, you're shooting yourself in the foot! eg. "I'm a godly woman look at me as I gossip about others and condemn them! Yay." (That was sarcasm).

I've known Angela for a reasonable amount of time on CC and you haven't. I know she's not perfect, but I either am I, or you for that matter (sorry, bud!) I disagree with Angela on some things but that doesn't mean she disrespects me (or you), it means she and I agree. The victim mentality is doing nothing for your 'cause'. Despite these differences, I consider Angela one of the most godly women here at CC and probably the wisest but she also has Christian humility and refers people back to the Bible, to investigate God's Word for themselves. All I've seen from you, on the other hand, is bad fruit. Maybe that's not you, I dearly hope that's the case. Either way, you need to examine your own heart and look to Christ to help you become more like Him. As do we all.

I agree with what you have said about Angela. She is a spiritual woman and I place a premium on what she has to say.

 

[ThePottersClay]

Hey guys and girls, this post started off perfectly fine, until stones were being thrown around, dirty PM laundry was thrown out in the street and personal attacks were being aimed at real people with real issues.

Need I remind you ALL that we are all children of God here (hopefully)

Ephesians 4:31 and 5:2

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

Is it so difficult to take the person who's aggravated you aside and talk like reasonable adults about it?

Come on this is not kindergarten.