ONCE saved always saved!.

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The answer is the cross. Placing faith in the work of our Lord Jesus Christ and not our own. That is the most difficult thing for a Christian to do. WE want to earn our keep, but it is impossible and if we keep trying to do so it's just one failure after another and we are deceived into giving up.
 
kennethcadwell said:
The issue is that some are falsely told that you only have to repent once, and all sins past, present, and future are forgiven.
This is false, future sins are not forgiven unless you repent and ask forgiveness when they happen.
When the scripture says all sins will be forgiven, it is talking about the kinds of sins that will be forgiven, not when they happen.

Here James is talking to fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that are in a saved position.

James 1:14-15
" But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full grown, brings forth death.

And then Timothy here:

1 Timothy 5:22
" Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure. "

How can one become not pure if they share in other people's sins if that sin will already be forgiven. It won't be forgiven unless they repent and ask forgiveness of it.

Then you have others like Romans 8:13 where Paul is speaking to fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, telling them not to walk in sin that will lead to death, but walk in the spirit that will bring life.
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no

this issue is the promise of God.

Did he promise eternal life to all who trust him or not?

if he did, then all who do are saved forever.

if they are not saved forever. God lied. His promise is worthless.And there is no salvation for anyone.
 
He did promise it to all who trust/believe in Him.

The thing is the trust/belief in Him has to last tell you either die in the flesh or transformed at the rapture ( if you believe )which ever comes first. If you lose that trust/belief in Him, you no longer are in a saved state.

When ever the apostles is referring to some one as a brother or sister in Christ, or calling them brethren. They are saying they are in the same saved state as they are, but then they go and warn that if they go back to a sinful nature it will lead them to death, not life.

eternally-gratefull said:
no

this issue is the promise of God.

Did he promise eternal life to all who trust him or not?

if he did, then all who do are saved forever.

if they are not saved forever. God lied. His promise is worthless.And there is no salvation for anyone.
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SeaBass said:
I get that you have a bias for the man-made teaching of eternal security so you do what you can to get salvation out of all the CONDITIONS put upon salvation in 1 Jn 1.

It's beyond amazing to me how a man-made teaching can make one think being out of fellowship with God, walking in darkness, forgiveness, cleansing away of sins have NOTHING to do with salvation.


1 Jn 1:6 If we (Christians) say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Simple question:
So a Christian that falls out of fellowship with God and thereby walks in darkness, lies and do not the truth is still in a saved position?
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How can I ever come boldly before the throne of grace if I am always in fear of losing my salvation? If Romans 10:9,10 says that I am saved when I confess Jesus as Lord and believe in my heart that God raised from the dead - then I am saved. I am born again of God's Spirit.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever. The first time we are born; we are born of corruptible seed, being born again - we are born of incorruptible seed by the word of God - [faith comes by hearing and hearing from the word of God].

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. God knows we will sin in the flesh because he made provision for us if we should sin (1 John 1:9), so where does someone who is born again NOT commit sin? Do we sin in the flesh or in the Spirit?

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not [break fellowship - context of 1 John 1]. And if any man sin [break fellowship], we have an advocate [defender or mediator] with the Father, Jesus Christ [our defender] the righteous. A son/daughter of God can get out of fellowship but cannot get out of fellowship so far that he is no longer a son/daughter.

In my earthly family I am a daughter of my parents - How long will I be their daughter? As long as I live. That is my "standing" within my family. My "standing" in my heavenly family, in the family of God, is as a daughter. How long will I be a daughter? As long as I live. The new birth, the Spirit is incorruptible and remains in me.

My behavior determines my "state" within my earthly family and my behavior also determines my "state" [fellowship]within my heavenly family. My position [standing] as a daughter has no bearing whatsoever upon what I do but my "state" is directly affected by my actions.

IOW . . . If after I am born again, I don't have much knowledge in the word and I continued to sin. Now my "state" [fellowship] in my heavenly family is not in alignment and harmony; i.e. I am now out of fellowship - but my "standing" as a daughter is still secure. How can I get back into perfect fellowship with God? 1 John 1:9.

Christ in you is sonship, your standing with God, but you in Christ is fellowship, your state in the family.

Again salvation is a gift and is by grace - you are continually trying to make salvation by works -
 
eternally-gratefull said:
no

this issue is the promise of God.

Did he promise eternal life to all who trust him or not?

if he did, then all who do are saved forever.

if they are not saved forever. God lied. His promise is worthless.And there is no salvation for anyone.
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Again just because you say something does not make it true...you grabbed at the promise but you did not take time to get the instructions....For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:22
King James Version
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
no

this issue is the promise of God.

Did he promise eternal life to all who trust him or not?

if he did, then all who do are saved forever.

if they are not saved forever. God lied. His promise is worthless.And there is no salvation for anyone.
Click to expand...


define trust
 
How do you twist 1 Timothy 3
6 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]How could a novice meaning a young saved one fall into the same [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]condemnation[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] as the devil if OSAS is true.[/FONT]
 
those who believe every word of God will be saved

how can you say you believe the bible

And lacking love
we won’t be able to enter in. So he’s holding back the
plagues for a little while longer so that we can learn
to love one another.
If you look in 1 Corinthians 13, he talks about what
love does and what it doesn’t do.
Love has patience.
Love is kind.
Love is not envious.
I want you to look at how Jesus was and how his love
was. When someone asked him, ‘What lack I yet?’ He told
them to go and give up everything they had and give to the
poor and come and follow me.
And that must have been a surprise to Judas, who
would’ve liked to have had the rich young ruler’s possessions.
And Judas would have thought that it would have
been a great help for the church to have money to operate
on and conduct its business. But Jesus didn’t go that route.
He told the rich young ruler to give up everything and come
and follow him. And it turns out that the rich young ruler
didn’t want to do that. He had some possessions and he
didn’t want to give them up. And so he didn’t make the
decision to do what Jesus told him to do.
And so we see that Jesus offered the man eternity. And
the man didn’t value eternity very much. He didn’t
think eternity was worth giving up everything for. He
thought his present was worth keeping. The present time
was worth keeping.
 
2Thewaters said:
those who believe every word of God will be saved

how can you say you believe the bible

And lacking love
we won’t be able to enter in. So he’s holding back the
plagues for a little while longer so that we can learn
to love one another.
If you look in 1 Corinthians 13, he talks about what
love does and what it doesn’t do.
Love has patience.
Love is kind.
Love is not envious.
I want you to look at how Jesus was and how his love
was. When someone asked him, ‘What lack I yet?’ He told
them to go and give up everything they had and give to the
poor and come and follow me.
And that must have been a surprise to Judas, who
would’ve liked to have had the rich young ruler’s possessions.
And Judas would have thought that it would have
been a great help for the church to have money to operate
on and conduct its business. But Jesus didn’t go that route.
He told the rich young ruler to give up everything and come
and follow him. And it turns out that the rich young ruler
didn’t want to do that. He had some possessions and he
didn’t want to give them up. And so he didn’t make the
decision to do what Jesus told him to do.
And so we see that Jesus offered the man eternity. And
the man didn’t value eternity very much. He didn’t
think eternity was worth giving up everything for. He
thought his present was worth keeping. The present time
was worth keeping.
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Where is the cross in that speech?
 
I find much of this debate to be purely theoretical, and not something that occurs in reality.

If a person falls away, did they ever truly know Christ?
In the only cases that I know of where someone has 'fallen away', they were raised in a Christian home, and considered themselves 'Christians', but were really only doing it for social reasons, or because of.... brainwashing by the parents.

There is another case which occurs in congregations with concert style worship, or highly emotional preaching,
where a person gets an emotional high from the meeting, and assumes that the emotion had spiritual impact. They say it is conversion, but the truth is that they have their faith in an emotion, not Christ.

There is a parable about soil which describes the types of people who fall away.

They were never saved. (John 6 explains this well)
 
And that’s the catch about going to heaven.

We have to


have Jesus abiding within,

because he’s the only one going.

Everyone that goes is going to be abiding in Jesus. The word of God. The whole thing.

And he’s going,

and he’s going to take those with him that he knows,

that he knows personally inside and out.

Who have committed their lives to following him,


to following the light that he has given,

to following every word that proceeds from his mouth

and making it the light of our life.

The people of Joel 2 are a people
who march to antoward their master.

They march to the master and toward the master, and they walk in his way.

And they don’t watch what people are doing on each side,

but they watch the
master.
 
SolidGround said:
I find much of this debate to be purely theoretical, and not something that occurs in reality.

If a person falls away, did they ever truly know Christ?
In the only cases that I know of where someone has 'fallen away', they were raised in a Christian home, and considered themselves 'Christians', but were really only doing it for social reasons, or because of.... brainwashing by the parents.

There is another case which occurs in congregations with concert style worship, or highly emotional preaching,
where a person gets an emotional high from the meeting, and assumes that the emotion had spiritual impact. They say it is conversion, but the truth is that they have their faith in an emotion, not Christ.

There is a parable about soil which describes the types of people who fall away.

They were never saved. (John 6 explains this well)
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More Christians fall away than you know and that's why we have gay rights and legal abortion and legal pot and a justice system that gives a pedophile 30 days.
 
Kerry said:
More Christians fall away than you know and that's why we have gay rights and legal abortion and legal pot and a justice system that gives a pedophile 30 days.
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It's not falling away. It's never being saved.
Calling oneself a Christian doesn't mean they have faith in Christ and His sacrifice for their salvation.
 
SolidGround said:
It's not falling away. It's never being saved.
Calling yourself a Christian doesn't mean you have faith in Christ and His sacrifice for your salvation.
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Right

come on down to the rehab center and tell them people that went to your church and got baptized that they were never saved. Get a grip.
 
Kerry said:
Right

come on down to the rehab center and tell them people that went to your church and got baptized that they were never saved. Get a grip.
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I would give them the Gospel, the Good News.
I wouldn't need to tell them about their state.
In their hearts they already know.
 
Ain't nothing worse than an insurance salesman and a new Christian cause they both got what you need.
 
SolidGround said:
I would give them the Gospel, the Good News.
I wouldn't need to tell them about their state.
In their hearts they already know.
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I thank you for your input, I do try to lead them to the cross. I've been doing this for about ten years and I would say that that about 40% are baptist that were sucked into OSAS.
 
Kerry said:
Ain't nothing worse than an insurance salesman and a new Christian cause they both got what you need.
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Also, why would someone who has a drug problem be considered 'fallen away'?

I would like to hear how an Arminianist would answer.
 
Kerry said:
I thank you for your input, I do try to lead them to the cross. I've been doing this for about ten years and I would say that that about 40% are baptist that were sucked into OSAS.
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Maybe if you are in a non-Pentecostal region.
There are only 19 Baptist Churches in my state. There aren't enough Baptists in my city to fill 40% of a rehab center.
 
wouldn't you rather hear how a christian developed a drug problem. Just take a trip down to the local rehab and you will be amazed. This OSAS has people screwed up.
 
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