BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[just-me]

obedience is important

ph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Paul says exactly which law was abolished
please remember this

the law that is contained in ordinances
leviticus deuteronomy

not the sabbath

the sabbath was given in eden and so was the ten commandments

its not the ten commandments abolished but the Jewish system

Verse 15 is always misunderstood. The law of commandments contained in ordinances were not abolished. It was the "enmity." One must read on to verse 16. I have been through this with others in the past.

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby :

"Thereby" is the key word exclaiming the fact that whatever was said previously was used to destroy the "enmity" and abolishing it. The cross is the "thereby." The entity that exposed the enmity was the "law of commandments contained in ordinances". Keeping in mind that the law entered because of transgression, one must be able to comprehend that without the "law of commandments contained in ordinances" there would be no reason for salvation because there wouldn't be any proof that a person needed salvation. That's why Paul wrote this.

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come , we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If the "law of commandments contained in ordinances" were abolished, salvation would cease for all others. Salvation is a process for today is the day of salvation, and we are instructed to follow Paul's life for he said he died daily. What do you think he used for the reason of that daily death?

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Acts 24:10-14
10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak , answered , Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:
11 Because that thou mayest understand , that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship .
12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people , neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Are not the law and the prophets "law of commandments contained in ordinances?"

 

[BradC]

Funny how this works, when it is something you disagree with, it is how I define it. All I did was quote John. This is how John and the Bible define sin.

You don't like to hear the truth about it because you want out of the law just what you want to take from it. When Saul disobeyed the voice of God and kept the best to be sacrificed and offered to God while killing everything else, what was the specific law that he transgressed? The law was and still is inadequate and falls way short in defining sin and iniquity. Transgressing the law will always be sin but the law will never be adequate to define sin associated with grieving the Spirit when it comes to giving place to the lust of the flesh. It will also never be adequate in defining the sin of the tongue and all the evil that is present in this world system. If the law was adequate to define sin, Jesus would not have had to say what He did in (Mt 5:27,28)...

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The law never said anything about adultery in the heart, but Jesus did. If you want to live and be judged and covered by the law (being under it), then you will never get the whole truth about sin or more important, about the righteousness of God. The law with all of its 'do's and dont's' does not tell you the whole story about the righteousness and holiness of God. It falls short just like we fall short of the glory of God because of sin. It is going to take the Spirit to be able to take you into the deep things of God and to give you the understanding you need which transcends any righteousness you may associate with the law. Good luck with that but you will be exercising yourself in futility.

 

[john832]

You don't like to hear the truth about it because you want out of the law just what you want to take from it. When Saul disobeyed the voice of God and kept the best to be sacrificed and offered to God while killing everything else, what was the specific law that he transgressed? The law was and still is inadequate and falls way short in defining sin and iniquity. Transgressing the law will always be sin but the law will never be adequate to define sin associated with grieving the Spirit when it comes to giving place to the lust of the flesh. It will also never be adequate in defining the sin of the tongue and all the evil that is present in this world system. If the law was adequate to define sin, Jesus would not have had to say what He did in (Mt 5:27,28)...

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The law never said anything about adultery in the heart, but Jesus did. If you want to live and be judged and covered by the law (being under it), then you will never get the whole truth about sin or more important, about the righteousness of God. The law with all of its 'do's and dont's' does not tell you the whole story about the righteousness and holiness of God. It falls short just like we fall short of the glory of God because of sin. It is going to take the Spirit to be able to take you into the deep things of God and to give you the understanding you need which transcends any righteousness you may associate with the law. Good luck with that but you will be exercising yourself in futility.

So, extending the seventh Commandment to what you do in your mind does away with the physical act? Pretty sure that is NOT what Christ meant here.

 

[StoneThrower]

When Christ came the veil was split, the barrier between Jew and Gentile was gone.

Verse please, my Bible only talks about the temple veil, and it has to do with direct access to God nothing about Jews and Gentiles. This is the second time someone has said this and didnt back it up when called out on it.

 

[john832]

The law never said anything about adultery in the heart, but Jesus did..

Just wanted to make sure the fine print said what I thought it said. Now how about this...

Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

H2530
חמד
châmad
khaw-mad'
A primitive root; to delight in: - beauty, greatly beloved, covet, delectable thing, ( X great) delight, desire, goodly, lust, (be) pleasant (thing), precious (thing).

Hmmm, it was there all along.

***Hit the button to quick, wanted to add this...

Jer 5:7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.
Jer 5:8 They were as fed horses in the morning: every one neighed after his neighbour's wife.

And God is calling it adultery.

 

[JaumeJ]

There are too many people who are all too willing to correct Yahweh's Word for Him. This prospect is not just pitiful, it is frightening.

Just wanted to make sure the fine print said what I thought it said. Now how about this...

Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

H2530
חמד
châmad
khaw-mad'
A primitive root; to delight in: - beauty, greatly beloved, covet, delectable thing, ( X great) delight, desire, goodly, lust, (be) pleasant (thing), precious (thing).

Hmmm, it was there all along.

***Hit the button to quick, wanted to add this...

Jer 5:7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.
Jer 5:8 They were as fed horses in the morning: every one neighed after his neighbour's wife.

And God is calling it adultery.

 

[Karraster]

Verse please, my Bible only talks about the temple veil, and it has to do with direct access to God nothing about Jews and Gentiles. This is the second time someone has said this and didnt back it up when called out on it.

Ephesians 2

 

[RedTent]

You don't like to hear the truth about it because you want out of the law just what you want to take from it. When Saul disobeyed the voice of God and kept the best to be sacrificed and offered to God while killing everything else, what was the specific law that he transgressed? The law was and still is inadequate and falls way short in defining sin and iniquity. Transgressing the law will always be sin but the law will never be adequate to define sin associated with grieving the Spirit when it comes to giving place to the lust of the flesh. It will also never be adequate in defining the sin of the tongue and all the evil that is present in this world system. If the law was adequate to define sin, Jesus would not have had to say what He did in (Mt 5:27,28)...

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The law never said anything about adultery in the heart, but Jesus did. If you want to live and be judged and covered by the law (being under it), then you will never get the whole truth about sin or more important, about the righteousness of God. The law with all of its 'do's and dont's' does not tell you the whole story about the righteousness and holiness of God. It falls short just like we fall short of the glory of God because of sin. It is going to take the Spirit to be able to take you into the deep things of God and to give you the understanding you need which transcends any righteousness you may associate with the law. Good luck with that but you will be exercising yourself in futility.

Brad, when I saw you had responded, before I read your response I knew what you were going to say, and honestly, I believe you have the wrong perspective on scripture. I could certainly be wrong about that, but hear me out.

First the first approach to your thinking about a post is to attack those who do not think as you do, check your posts and see if this is not true. "You are thinking" "it is because you...." and only God knows that about others. Attacking others is not a way to find truth.

The second approach routine with your posts is to state a bible truth and then say that truth makes another truth wrong. I don't think that is good hearing of scripture. In this example you give, you say that Christ got rid of truths He had given before because He told of a new addition.

Another belief you have that is coloring all your other beliefs in the Lord is your understanding of "not under the law". It is a bible truth and we must listen to it. But listening to this truth does not erase all other truths we are given, it is one of them.

You just need to accept the Lord and all the Lord says as truth. These truths work together, they do not contradict one another, and with the HS and study, you would be able to see how all scripture is truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The only thing that can make us righteous is God's forgiveness.

Yet there are still laws to be kept to know how to live as one who is forgiven.

yes there are.

but you will not find them in the OT laws.

 

[Linda70]

Verse please, my Bible only talks about the temple veil, and it has to do with direct access to God nothing about Jews and Gentiles. This is the second time someone has said this and didnt back it up when called out on it.

The apostle Paul speaks of the "middle wall of partition" in Ephesians 2:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

This "wall of partition" in Ephesians 2 is not the same as the "veil in the Temple being rent in twain":

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mark 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

It (the veil) was the curtain to the holy of holies which was rent from top to bottom when Jesus Christ died on the cross (Matthew 27:50-51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45), showing that the way to God has been fully opened by Christ's blood. The curtain was torn from top to bottom, depicting the fact that salvation is entirely of God.

 

[KohenMatt]

yes there are.

but you will not find them in the OT laws.

I disagree. There are plenty of OT laws that teach us how to live as redeemed people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I disagree. There are plenty of OT laws that teach us how to live as redeemed people.

You do not agree with Jesus himself?

Matthew 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If ALL the law and prophets (OT) are hung on the two love commands Then there is nothing we can learn from them.

If we need to have them to learn. Then ALL the law and prophets are not hinged on those two commands.

 

[KohenMatt]

You do not agree with Jesus himself?

Matthew 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If ALL the law and prophets (OT) are hung on the two love commands Then there is nothing we can learn from them.

If we need to have them to learn. Then ALL the law and prophets are not hinged on those two commands.

You can learn HOW to love practically. Just like we need to learn HOW to love our spouse correctly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can learn HOW to love practically. Just like we need to learn HOW to love our spouse correctly.

how?

If I love (in the true meaning of love, which is self sacrificial) Then I will always do what is right with whomever I am loving (as long as my flesh does not take over, which would be self love at that moment)

the law can not tell me how to do this.

But it can show me how not to break the law

 

[BradC]

So, extending the seventh Commandment to what you do in your mind does away with the physical act? Pretty sure that is NOT what Christ meant here.

There is something wrong with how you think. You think contrary to what is being addressed. The physical aspect is not being done away, Christ went to the heart of the matter and went deeper into adultery then what the Pharisees considered it to be. They are the ones who only considered the physical act just as they caught the woman in the very act in (John 8). Jesus went deeper into the heart of lusting after a woman, something the law did not and could not do. A person may keep the law and not commit the act of adultery but in his heart may have done so many times. Theses are the motives of the heart that will be made manifest. Anyone can keep the Sabbath and be living in sin because their heart is not right. Is this a little too much for you to handle or does God refrain from looking on the outward appearance but instead focuses upon the heart!

 

[gotime]

Hey gotime, sir, have you broken it lately? Had anger at anyone, like as it seems right here to all, over and over he who sins breaks the Law and will not be?
that is what I got out of your post here, no one is saved, God can't save me, you, or anyone, why? All you got to do is just sin once, and I know as well as me we both have at least once, so byte bye, no chance or is there?
And please tell us, me how?
God does just love you, but not only you?

I am not angry at all. That is only in your perception. but thanks for asking and not simply accusing.

Listen I am not saying that you go from being sinful one day to no sin at all the next. My experience is that it is a daily growth in focusing on Jesus and his merits for our salvation. HE does the changing we just submit to it. I can say with Paul that I have not yet attained but I press forward forgetting those things that are behind to that high calling in Christ Jesus.

Salvation comes at the beginning of the process not just at the end. The problem is people have no faith in Gods promises.

What you should get out of it is God can do more for me than I realized.

I used to have anger problems but praise Jesus they are gone.

The word of God says this:

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Notice the first bit is "Sin not" it is possible to the one who has Faith in Jesus and grows in the knowledge of the truth.

but it also says if any man sin we have an advocate. so no you are not lost from one sin if you repent from it.

I don't really understand your last two questions sorry, please explain. God loves everyone the power is available to all who have faith in His word.

I am simple holding up what can be attained if we have faith in Christ and him crucified and all the gifts and promises that we have because of Him.

blessings.

 

[gotime]

So are you saying by Christ you are keeping the law perfectly? Literally, physically?
And if I do work on Friday night sundown to Saturday night sundown, I am cursed by God according to you? Or any of the Laws of Moses, if I do not obey them, am I cursed by God or you and what you beleive to be?

In Christ we are perfect from the moment we submit to his will and accept His sacrifice. His perfection is imputed to us. As for physical keeping the law perfectly, I can not tell you, I do not trust to my own perceptions or knowledge. but I can say this, there is not one part of the law that I am breaking willfully. Perfect no I doubt it, but I have Faith Jesus will get me there by His power.

As to the Sabbath thing, If you believe that Sabbath is part of Gods law then yes you are in trouble if you don't stop. however If you do not well that's a different story. However even if you are convicted the Sabbath is correct but have a job like nursing or some such thing, It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

In summery I don't curse you and I don't know your heart so I can not judge you. I simple present the truth of Scripture in hopes that those who are in darkness will see the light and be fully freed.

I believe that there are more people who do not keep the Sabbath currently who will be saved than of those who do keep it.

that does not mean I think it does not matter.

 

[KohenMatt]

how?

If I love (in the true meaning of love, which is self sacrificial) Then I will always do what is right with whomever I am loving (as long as my flesh does not take over, which would be self love at that moment)

the law can not tell me how to do this.

But it can show me how not to break the law

If you believe you will always do what is right by that person, you will still be doing SOMETHING. That is what the Law shows you.

If you see your neighbor's dog running loose, if you really love your neighbor, you would return his dog.

The Law shows you how to show love in that situation. (Deut 22:1)

 

[gotime]

The Bible does give us two sides to see,

Galatians 4:29
At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

one is either in Spirit and truth or remains in Spirit of error, which has to do to please God, when Christ by the flesh is the only one that ever did and ever will by flesh please God, and he died to the flesh for us to do the same in Spirit and truth to be alive to Father in Spirit and truth no flesh allowed why, because it is unredeemed

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

So if one serves in Spirit and truth, then one is saved in Spirit and truth, has received the Holy Spirit of truth, are born again and just love all. refrains from argument of flesh ignorance for flesh the carnal nature knows nothing but selfishness

Just what I see no sin in Spirit of Father, all sin by Christ is condemned to the flesh, the very flesh man keeps trying to be perfect in and obey, sorry God sees us all like a fly on the wall
The true us is behind closed doors, the true you, when thinking about how you are going to get that person that. Or yell at your kids or better half, scream about your boss behind his back

So if you are not doing these, then I say God has got a hold of you by you having Faith, if not then seek God out, he is not hidden, for God does just love you and not only you all persons
This love, mercy of God is the foundation that no man can destroy, manipulate yes as has been done for centuries now. And God's Mercy thank God continues, not to be taken for granted.
So if you are harming others stop, cede, before you have to go through being delivered to Satan to have the body destroyed, so that when go through thhat Holy Fire of God you will be saved, even though all those works burned up

But that is the point the Spirit is stronger than the flesh so that we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

If we have the Spirit we will stop getting angry seen or unseen. we will stop having evil thoughts, we will stop being impatient etc. what happens spiritually will be seen in a life of peace and love in every circumstance.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you believe you will always do what is right by that person, you will still be doing SOMETHING. That is what the Law shows you.

If you see your neighbor's dog running loose, if you really love your neighbor, you would return his dog.

The Law shows you how to show love in that situation. (Deut 22:1)

I disagree in a huge way. The law would not tell me how to return the dog. God does. through his love shown me.

All the law may be able to do is prove how I failed to love, (yet considering I repented and came to Christ, I already know what a failure I am. so the law can not even help there) it can not show me how to love.