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L
*[[Luk 12:47-48]] KJV*
%v 47% And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
%v 48% But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
%v 47% And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
%v 48% But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Its sad when people dismiss something because of lack of knowing the scriptures. But Ill give you something.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Clearly here Jesus says that committing adultery is not just an act but even within our thoughts/heart.
is this new or not?
When David cried out about his sin he said this:
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
David knew that truth had to be on the inside not just the outward act. Thus he said:
Psa 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
So David knew the issue/sin started in his heart/thoughts, Just as Jesus said. This is David speaking of His sin in lusting over Bethsheba.
David knew the issue started inside the act was only a manifestation of the lust in his heart.
So really not that hard to prove unless you don't know your Old Testament like Jesus did.
Job 31:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?
Job going back further than David said he made a covenant not to think/look upon a maid. Did He mean he would never physically look at a woman? no of course not. He knew it was sin to look or think upon a woman with lust.
Just as Jesus said if you look upon a woman with lust you have committed Adultery.
It is Prophesied that Jesus would come and magnify the law.
Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Tell me this, does magnify bring something that was not there before or reveal in greater detail what was already there?
clearly the latter is true as we have Just seen from the Old Testament.
Study it further there is lots more.
Blessings.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Clearly here Jesus says that committing adultery is not just an act but even within our thoughts/heart.
is this new or not?
When David cried out about his sin he said this:
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
David knew that truth had to be on the inside not just the outward act. Thus he said:
Psa 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
So David knew the issue/sin started in his heart/thoughts, Just as Jesus said. This is David speaking of His sin in lusting over Bethsheba.
David knew the issue started inside the act was only a manifestation of the lust in his heart.
So really not that hard to prove unless you don't know your Old Testament like Jesus did.
Job 31:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?
Job going back further than David said he made a covenant not to think/look upon a maid. Did He mean he would never physically look at a woman? no of course not. He knew it was sin to look or think upon a woman with lust.
Just as Jesus said if you look upon a woman with lust you have committed Adultery.
It is Prophesied that Jesus would come and magnify the law.
Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Tell me this, does magnify bring something that was not there before or reveal in greater detail what was already there?
clearly the latter is true as we have Just seen from the Old Testament.
Study it further there is lots more.
Blessings.
E
Yeah,
If God would have just said, do not commit adultry, Do not even THINK of it in your heart.
we would not be having this discussion.
we are having this discussion because the command was flawed in showing us every way we could commit adultry, It was flawed in telling us how not to commit adutlry. But it was perfect in showing all adulterers that they have sinned, and according to the law, are cursed.
Which is what it was given for. A schoolmaster.
A schoolmaster only leads us to the classroom. It does not teach us what we need to know. We learn this AFTER we get into the classroom (in this case. after we are saved)
the law just gets us there, it does not, and can not teach us.
If God would have just said, do not commit adultry, Do not even THINK of it in your heart.
we would not be having this discussion.
we are having this discussion because the command was flawed in showing us every way we could commit adultry, It was flawed in telling us how not to commit adutlry. But it was perfect in showing all adulterers that they have sinned, and according to the law, are cursed.
Which is what it was given for. A schoolmaster.
A schoolmaster only leads us to the classroom. It does not teach us what we need to know. We learn this AFTER we get into the classroom (in this case. after we are saved)
the law just gets us there, it does not, and can not teach us.
What you fail to understand is that the same Faith that imputes the righteousness of Christ to us is the same faith the Same righteousness that transforms us inside.
Its not an addition but a continuing of the working of Grace by Faith. God in His wisdom and mercy had made salvation in such a way that both the deathbed conversion and the life long Christian can be saved by the same Faith in the imputed Righteousness of Christ.
You said "Scripture confirms that to do righteousness is to believe on Jesus, thus our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5."
Scripture also confirms that works must follow faith.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
You said "But SDA's contradict scripture by preaching a lukewarm mix works of the law with grace.
God says we cannot mix these two, Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."
but you have added your own meaning to this text. James clearly says that works have to come from Faith so Paul could not have meant that the christian has no works.
Paul states this also,
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Notice he says we are saved by faith and not of works then says we are created in Christ for good works.
The issue you seem to miss is that Paul speaks against being saved by works, he does not speak against doing good works because you are saved ever, not once.
Paul also says:
2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
and again:
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
So works deny Christ how? being abominable and disobedient. They sin.
Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Paul siad we are redeemed from sin to be zealous of good works.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
We are to provoke each other to love and good works.
James connects the works directly to the 10 commandments as he quotes specifically the ones to do with love one another.
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
see James says we are justified by faith which brings works and He connects it with the 10 commandments in this chapter Just as Paul said,
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
but many have become forgetful hearers.
1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Sin is the works of the Devil so what do you think the works of God are?
1Jn_3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Cain's works evil Abel's works were righteous.
Revelation God knows our works.
Jesus spoke of good works shining out of us.
Mat_5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
then straight away goes into the law and how it needs to be kept in the inside not just the outside.
Jesus also condemns self works:
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
notice the issue is they work iniquity/sin. their works are not righteous but sinful.
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
What we are rewarded according to our faith? no works. works reveal if we are in faith or not. evil works not in faith good works in faith.
.Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
again Jesus says condemnation for evil works life for good works.
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
If it was good enough for Jesus then Its food enough for us. Those who do not the works of God do not believe.
summery point:
We are not saved by works, our works are evil. but we are saved by Faith. this is the context of the texts you use. but the scripture is clear that we are not saved without good works, because this shows we truly do not have faith.
The law is Good the Law is righteousness.
So how can a person who by faith in Christ and is transformed not keep the law.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
This is repeated in James.
You said "2Cor 11:3 rightly describes legalistic doctrines as corrupting minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
I can agree with this, it also applies to lukeworm corruptions that say we are saved in our sin and deny the power of God. who call that which is good evil and that which is evil good.
Jer_4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
You speak of lukewarm yet you do not use scripture to interpret.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
what does God mean spue you out?
Lev 18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
Lev 18:27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
Lev 18:28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
Lev 18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
Lev 18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.
it has to do with keeping the laws of God and not doing the evil of other nations.
hot is obeying God.
cold is the abominations
Lukewarm is a mixture of obedience and sin. trying to have both worlds.
Spue out means to cut of from among Gods people.
Lev 20:22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
Again if we do not obey God then he will spue us out.
You are also right that it also applies to self righteousness or legalistic works based salvation where someone tries to work for their salvation.
So again my point is you acknowledge one aspect and seem to ignore the other. Scripture must be taken as a whole not bits and pieces.
Its not an addition but a continuing of the working of Grace by Faith. God in His wisdom and mercy had made salvation in such a way that both the deathbed conversion and the life long Christian can be saved by the same Faith in the imputed Righteousness of Christ.
You said "Scripture confirms that to do righteousness is to believe on Jesus, thus our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5."
Scripture also confirms that works must follow faith.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
You said "But SDA's contradict scripture by preaching a lukewarm mix works of the law with grace.
God says we cannot mix these two, Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."
but you have added your own meaning to this text. James clearly says that works have to come from Faith so Paul could not have meant that the christian has no works.
Paul states this also,
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Notice he says we are saved by faith and not of works then says we are created in Christ for good works.
The issue you seem to miss is that Paul speaks against being saved by works, he does not speak against doing good works because you are saved ever, not once.
Paul also says:
2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
and again:
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
So works deny Christ how? being abominable and disobedient. They sin.
Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Paul siad we are redeemed from sin to be zealous of good works.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
We are to provoke each other to love and good works.
James connects the works directly to the 10 commandments as he quotes specifically the ones to do with love one another.
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
see James says we are justified by faith which brings works and He connects it with the 10 commandments in this chapter Just as Paul said,
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
but many have become forgetful hearers.
1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Sin is the works of the Devil so what do you think the works of God are?
1Jn_3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Cain's works evil Abel's works were righteous.
Revelation God knows our works.
Jesus spoke of good works shining out of us.
Mat_5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
then straight away goes into the law and how it needs to be kept in the inside not just the outside.
Jesus also condemns self works:
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
notice the issue is they work iniquity/sin. their works are not righteous but sinful.
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
What we are rewarded according to our faith? no works. works reveal if we are in faith or not. evil works not in faith good works in faith.
.Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
again Jesus says condemnation for evil works life for good works.
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
If it was good enough for Jesus then Its food enough for us. Those who do not the works of God do not believe.
summery point:
We are not saved by works, our works are evil. but we are saved by Faith. this is the context of the texts you use. but the scripture is clear that we are not saved without good works, because this shows we truly do not have faith.
The law is Good the Law is righteousness.
So how can a person who by faith in Christ and is transformed not keep the law.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
This is repeated in James.
You said "2Cor 11:3 rightly describes legalistic doctrines as corrupting minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
I can agree with this, it also applies to lukeworm corruptions that say we are saved in our sin and deny the power of God. who call that which is good evil and that which is evil good.
Jer_4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
You speak of lukewarm yet you do not use scripture to interpret.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
what does God mean spue you out?
Lev 18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
Lev 18:27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
Lev 18:28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
Lev 18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
Lev 18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.
it has to do with keeping the laws of God and not doing the evil of other nations.
hot is obeying God.
cold is the abominations
Lukewarm is a mixture of obedience and sin. trying to have both worlds.
Spue out means to cut of from among Gods people.
Lev 20:22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
Again if we do not obey God then he will spue us out.
You are also right that it also applies to self righteousness or legalistic works based salvation where someone tries to work for their salvation.
So again my point is you acknowledge one aspect and seem to ignore the other. Scripture must be taken as a whole not bits and pieces.
There is so much you guys understand, I don't know why you are saying everyone who believes the law is Holy is wrong. You know we must have the HS to understand, you know the law points out sin, you know we only have salvation through the Lord. Most even say they try to obey. Yet, there is all kinds of muck thrown about obedience. For instance many posts say that because the law points out sin it is good for nothing else, that is what it is for, period. And other completely off the wall ideas when scripture says otherwise.
I will stop now your heart is clearly not open, you have not even acknowledged my post showing that the Old Testament people knew that the issue was in the heart/thoughts.
Funny how you twisted things here, do you know what a school master is?
schoolmaster
ˈskuːlmɑːstə/
nounBRITISH
Funny how you twisted things here, do you know what a school master is?
schoolmaster
ˈskuːlmɑːstə/
nounBRITISH
- 1.
a male teacher in a school.
The law is a teacher to bring us to Christ yet you say the law can not teach us?
I could quote scripture that shows the law teaches us sin by showing righteousness. but you are clearly not listening.
I pray the Lord somehow opens your eyes.
H
I am very GLAD to print this post of yours, it is RIGHT ON ! Thanks. Love Hoffco ps I want to make a preaching tour with my wife this next year, or sooner. Much has to happen to make it a reality. But, I would love to meet you and preach in the Churches you go to. May God make it a reality.! This is also true of you others who agree with me, you know who you are.
It is interesting to say the least.
IF you try to love your neighbor then you try to keep the law.
IF you try to not have lustful thoughts they you try to keep the law.
If you try not to steal then you try to keep the law.
IF you try to put God first in everything then you try to keep the law.
Yet you then argue against those who say the Grace of Christ transformed us into law keepers by faith in Jesus.
I think the problem is that you keep failing and I know why. its because you are trying to keep the law without realizing that its the work of God in you.
Thus you actually are guilty of what you say about us.
Have Faith in Gods work in you and your efforts to love will be empowered by the God of heaven.
I don't mean "you" RedTent.
IF you try to love your neighbor then you try to keep the law.
IF you try to not have lustful thoughts they you try to keep the law.
If you try not to steal then you try to keep the law.
IF you try to put God first in everything then you try to keep the law.
Yet you then argue against those who say the Grace of Christ transformed us into law keepers by faith in Jesus.
I think the problem is that you keep failing and I know why. its because you are trying to keep the law without realizing that its the work of God in you.
Thus you actually are guilty of what you say about us.
Have Faith in Gods work in you and your efforts to love will be empowered by the God of heaven.
I don't mean "you" RedTent.
E
if I may, I agree, but I would change a few things.
If I love my neighbor, I will not break the law
If I think spiritual things, I will not be tempted to lust,
If I trust God to supply all my needs, I will not be tempted to steel
If I put God first in everything, Then I do not have to worry about breaking the law because it would never happen.
It is not about trying to not break the law. Israel spent centuries trying not to break they law and failed miserably.
it is about focusing on things of God (the spirit) and we will nto have to worry about breaking the law.
If I love my neighbor, I will not break the law
If I think spiritual things, I will not be tempted to lust,
If I trust God to supply all my needs, I will not be tempted to steel
If I put God first in everything, Then I do not have to worry about breaking the law because it would never happen.
It is not about trying to not break the law. Israel spent centuries trying not to break they law and failed miserably.
it is about focusing on things of God (the spirit) and we will nto have to worry about breaking the law.
H
To gotime, Your first lines of post 708 IDOLIZES FAITH, this is a SHAME to the GRACE of GOD. We are transformed by GRACE , not faith. We believe and beg God to save us ; But our faith and works do not save us, as far as being transformed by God's GRACE; it is Grace alone that saves, in the Causal aspect. The rest off your post was GREAT. Love to all, Hoffco
E
opens my eyes?
you need to open yours.
If the schoolmaster as paul said was ONLY to lead us to Christ, and once we came to him, we no longer are in need of a schoolmaster.
Then your whole theory falls on its face.
The schoolmaster takes yuo ny the hand, Guides you and directs you to a point where his job is to bring you, whether that be teaching, guidling or directing.
Once the task of that schoolmaster is complete. Your given to another teacher, or another school, or another tutor..
If you still think your under law. Your still following the schoolmaster. and evidenly have not found Christ. for as yuo said you think it shows you how to be righteous. That was not its purpose. It was given to show you why Christ had to die for your sin, and why you need to trust him.
As for your proof. The same david understood that sacrifice and burnt offering God did not desire to forgive him his sin, He understood what Abraham and every person before the law understood. It is our heart attitude which sins. Not the letter of the law. The law did not teach them that, It could not. It was the relationship with God which taught them that.
the letter was given to prove we are sinners. Not to show us how to be righteous. If it could teach us to be righteous, then why do we need to be born again and given the power of God to do good? they law would do it for us??
you need to open yours.
If the schoolmaster as paul said was ONLY to lead us to Christ, and once we came to him, we no longer are in need of a schoolmaster.
Then your whole theory falls on its face.
The schoolmaster takes yuo ny the hand, Guides you and directs you to a point where his job is to bring you, whether that be teaching, guidling or directing.
Once the task of that schoolmaster is complete. Your given to another teacher, or another school, or another tutor..
If you still think your under law. Your still following the schoolmaster. and evidenly have not found Christ. for as yuo said you think it shows you how to be righteous. That was not its purpose. It was given to show you why Christ had to die for your sin, and why you need to trust him.
As for your proof. The same david understood that sacrifice and burnt offering God did not desire to forgive him his sin, He understood what Abraham and every person before the law understood. It is our heart attitude which sins. Not the letter of the law. The law did not teach them that, It could not. It was the relationship with God which taught them that.
the letter was given to prove we are sinners. Not to show us how to be righteous. If it could teach us to be righteous, then why do we need to be born again and given the power of God to do good? they law would do it for us??
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No. We said if you are following the law to earn salvation you are under a curse..(only they would claim we only have to follow ten)
and the one who said 613 again was directed at someone who claimed there was only ten we had to follow.
I think you need to be more perseptive of what people are saying, and who they are directing their comments to.
I think the only misunderstinding for most is how and why we keep the law.
and the one who said 613 again was directed at someone who claimed there was only ten we had to follow.
I think you need to be more perseptive of what people are saying, and who they are directing their comments to.
I think the only misunderstinding for most is how and why we keep the law.
I was replying to your point that the law does not teach. It clearly does and did for those who lived before Jesus came and does for us before we come to Christ.
I agree that Jesus replaces the law on stone for those who believe on Him.
I am not under law but under Grace maybe on this part we just have different ways of wording it.
The law shows sin by showing righteousness.
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
that word "Just" can be translated right short for righteous.
The law is not sin but rather shows what is right so that sin appears wrong as it is.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
The law is righteous and good.
So If we by the grace of God are made good and righteous then we will be by def ult keeping the law. So I agree it was given to show us our need of Christ but it does that by showing what is good and right and thus clearly showing us that we are sinful and wrong.
I like what you said About David and God teaching them I agree with that.
As I said above the letter does show what is righteous, It does not show how to be righteous. Jesus does that as God did for David.
It seems that our disagreement is more in the way we word things than anything. Sounds to me from this last post of yours that we are more in agreement.
blessings.
I agree that Jesus replaces the law on stone for those who believe on Him.
I am not under law but under Grace maybe on this part we just have different ways of wording it.
The law shows sin by showing righteousness.
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
that word "Just" can be translated right short for righteous.
The law is not sin but rather shows what is right so that sin appears wrong as it is.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
The law is righteous and good.
So If we by the grace of God are made good and righteous then we will be by def ult keeping the law. So I agree it was given to show us our need of Christ but it does that by showing what is good and right and thus clearly showing us that we are sinful and wrong.
I like what you said About David and God teaching them I agree with that.
As I said above the letter does show what is righteous, It does not show how to be righteous. Jesus does that as God did for David.
It seems that our disagreement is more in the way we word things than anything. Sounds to me from this last post of yours that we are more in agreement.
blessings.