Baptism Essential to Salvation
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Do you see how John 3:5; 4:10; 4:14; 7:37-39; 1 Corinthians 12:13 fits together or do you still disregard "living water" for water baptism?
Yes, baptism signifies the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. So here "into his death," "in relation to his death," which relation Paul proceeds to explain by the symbolism of the ordinance. Baptism points two ways, backwards to Christ's death, burial and to our death to sin, forwards to Christ's resurrection from the dead and to our new life pledged by the coming out of the watery grave to walk in newness of life. There is the further picture of our own resurrection from the grave. It should be said also that a symbol (water baptism) is not the reality (Spirit baptism), but the picture of the reality.
Yes, baptism signifies the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. So here "into his death," "in relation to his death," which relation Paul proceeds to explain by the symbolism of the ordinance. Baptism points two ways, backwards to Christ's death, burial and to our death to sin, forwards to Christ's resurrection from the dead and to our new life pledged by the coming out of the watery grave to walk in newness of life. There is the further picture of our own resurrection from the grave. It should be said also that a symbol (water baptism) is not the reality (Spirit baptism), but the picture of the reality.
If that sounded like babbling to you then try reading 1 Corinthians 2:11-14 because that was crystal clear language. So John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT is babble to you?
In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. You fail to see how Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life and that living water is not water baptism? That comes across to you as more babble?
John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive.. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. Still more babble?
So "believes in Me, thirsts, drinks, living water, never thirst, Spirit, drink into one Spirit" is all babble to you and you see no connection whatsoever with all of these verses? Wow!
In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. You fail to see how Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life and that living water is not water baptism? That comes across to you as more babble?
John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive.. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. Still more babble?
So "believes in Me, thirsts, drinks, living water, never thirst, Spirit, drink into one Spirit" is all babble to you and you see no connection whatsoever with all of these verses? Wow!
I'm not saying there is no water baptism. "One" baptism does not mean that only one type of baptism exists. Even though there are baptisms (plural - Hebrews 6:2); in (Matthew 3:11) we see 3 baptisms. I indeed BAPTIZE you with 1. WATER for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will BAPTIZE you with the 2. HOLY SPIRIT and 3. FIRE. There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism (1 Corinthians 12:13). Are you saying there is no Spirit baptism? The Holy Spirit performs Spirit baptism, not man. Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
E
yes I am aware he made the great Commission to have men baptize in water. and also that only Christ can baptize with the spirit.
I am also aware that John the Baptist prophesied to all that a man coming after him would baptize with the HS
I am also aware that Paul in Col 2 said we were spiritually baptized by God, who raised Christ from the dead
I am also aware that Paul tells us in 1 or. that we were all baptized into christ by the spirit.
I am also aware that baptism, which represent being leansed or washed and made whiter than snow (as the OT prophets said) was said to be done in titus 3: 5 by the Holy Spirit. Not by our own works of righteousness (which baptism in water would be considered a work of righteousness, or a good deed.
Water baptism gets you wet. And has great effects on the soul and spirit, One thing it can not do, is wash you and make you clean (baptise you into Christ and his death and burial) It can be a testimony signifying you HAVE BEEN made whole in Christ, Much as the symbol of cirumcision in the OT did. But that is all it can do. As Peter said, It does not remove the filth our flesh has spent years building up in our spiritual resume.
E
Not everyone was baptized. The passage says only those who had received Christ were. (which proves my point, they had ALREADY received Christ) This fact alone has great damage to your credibility.
And sorry, 2 verses of scripture (which were never in the original in verse form) does not make a doctrine, You ignore so much other scripture which says otherwise.
Jesus told the men who tried to attribute the work of his miracles performed by the HS to satan they were in danger of committing the unpardonable sin.
You my friend are trying to attribute the baptism into Christ performed by the HS to men, You should head hrists warning to them, because it applies to you.
And sorry, 2 verses of scripture (which were never in the original in verse form) does not make a doctrine, You ignore so much other scripture which says otherwise.
Jesus told the men who tried to attribute the work of his miracles performed by the HS to satan they were in danger of committing the unpardonable sin.
You my friend are trying to attribute the baptism into Christ performed by the HS to men, You should head hrists warning to them, because it applies to you.
So you have no faith in Christ.... since the water is symbolic and he is doing the actual cleansing ...your faith is in your understanding of the word. Do you think this was necessary for the blind to see?...
[SUP]6 [/SUP]When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
We are saved by the grace of God but as long as one can find excuses to not obey the word he is not worthy of being called. God does what he does but man have to do what God says. Now judge for yourself ... the scripture say...(1)believe on the Lord and you will be saved. But it also says(2) we are saved by grace through faith. Yet again it says (3) Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(1)Many people teach you just have to believe...that's it
(2)Many people teach we are saved by our faith
(3)Many people teach since you are saved by believing /faith water baptism is not part of the salvation plan.
So Grace is left completely out of the picture.
Obedience becomes sin.
Your works becomes filth rags.
Man's wisdom cannot explain God.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.It still says ....
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
We are saved by the grace of God but as long as one can find excuses to not obey the word he is not worthy of being called. God does what he does but man have to do what God says. Now judge for yourself ... the scripture say...(1)believe on the Lord and you will be saved. But it also says(2) we are saved by grace through faith. Yet again it says (3) Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(1)Many people teach you just have to believe...that's it
(2)Many people teach we are saved by our faith
(3)Many people teach since you are saved by believing /faith water baptism is not part of the salvation plan.
So Grace is left completely out of the picture.
Obedience becomes sin.
Your works becomes filth rags.
Man's wisdom cannot explain God.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.It still says ....
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I am not arguing "belief only" in that sense. There is no genuine belief without first repenting. There is no genuine confession without genuine belief. Belief, trust, reliance in Christ only for salvation. Matthew 10:32-33 is not implying that those who repent and believe the gospel are still lost until they round up a group of people at Walmart and confess Jesus to them. As I already explained numerous times to you, in Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven. Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust exclusively in Him for salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust exclusively in Him for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him (John 3:16; 14:6). The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.
In Mark 16:16, the omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief, which is in harmony with what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26.
Transcript of Lee Strobel's Testimony. He went from atheist to Christian. He certainly repented!
For most of my life I was an atheist. I thought the idea of an all-loving, all-powerful creator of the universe--I thought it was stupid. I mean, my background is in journalism and law. I tend to be a skeptical person. I was the legal editor of the Chicago Tribune. So I needed evidence before I'd believe anything.
One day my wife came up to me--she'd been agnostic--and she said after a period of spiritual investigation she had decided to become a follower of Jesus Christ. And I thought, you know, this is the worst possible news I could get. I thought she was going to turn into some sexually repressed prude who was going to spend all her time serving the poor in skid row somewhere. I thought this was the end of our marriage.
But in the ensuing months, I saw positive changes in her values, in her character, in the way she related to me and the children. It was winsome; and it was attractive; and it made me want to check things out. So I went to church one day, ah, mainly to see if I could get her out of this cult that she had gotten involved in.
But I heard the message of Jesus articulated for the first time in a way that I could understand it. That forgiveness is a free gift, and that Jesus Christ died for our sins, that we might spend eternity with Him. And I walked out saying--I was still an atheist--but also saying, "If this is true, this has huge implications for my life." And so I used my journalism training and legal training to begin an investigation into whether there was any credibility to Christianity or to any other world faith system for that matter.
I did that for a year and nine months until November the 8th of 1991, and on that day I realized that, in light of the torrent of evidence flowing in the direction of the truth of Christianity, it would require more faith for me to maintain my atheism than to become a Christian. Because to be an atheist I would have to swim upstream against this torrent of evidence pointing toward the truth of Jesus Christ. And I couldn't do that. I was trained in journalism and law to respond to truth. And so on that day, I received Jesus Christ as my forgiver, and as my leader.
And, just like with my wife, my life began to change. Over time my values, my character, the purpose of my life began to be transformed over time in a way that, as I look back, I can't imagine staying on the path I was on compared to the adventure and the fulfillment and the joy of following Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Is that Biblical enough for you?
But what is the root of no confession? No faith. That is the heart of why there is no salvation. It's not the confession in of itself that saves you as an additional requirement after faith. It's the faith behind the confession. In Romans 10:9,10 believing and confessing are not two separate steps to salvation. They are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" TOGETHER (that is, the word of faith which we preach).
Again, Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" TOGETHER (that is, the word of faith which we preach). Notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10 - that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. Not two separate steps (believe today but still lost, finally confess next week then saved) to salvation but chronologically together. Believes unto righteousness, confession made unto salvation "together" BEFORE water baptism. Your 4 step plan negates Romans 10:9,10. According to your plan, confession is not made unto salvation but unto baptism which is then done unto salvation.
Believes unto righteousness/confession unto salvation "together" (Romans 10:8). It's not believe today and confess next week.1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit from a 4 step check list is not unto salvation.
*What about someone who is unable to speak? How can they "confess with their mouth?" Such a person would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10.
False. He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. Since Jesus clarifies the first clause with “but he who does not believe will be condemned,” then baptism signifies salvation and there are not two conditions to being saved here. If belief and baptism are BOTH absolutely essential to salvation, then why didn't Jesus mention baptism in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?
It's the lack of belief that brings condemnation, not the lack of baptism (John 3:18; Mark 16:16(b). So you believe that EVERYONE who has ever been water baptized is a genuine BELIEVER? Are you that naive? Believing is a prerequisite to being baptized, yet unbelievers in various cults and false religions get water baptized all the time anyway. In Mark 16:16, if we look at this verse closely, we see that it is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned. Clearly, the determining factor regarding whether one is saved or condemned is whether or not he believes. In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.
And your idea of obeying is works salvation, which is not obedience. What did Paul say in Romans 10:10? Believes UNTO righteousness. What did Paul say in Romans 10:16? But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Again, When we place our faith in Christ for salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." You left out "servants of obedience" unto righteousness. Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness. In Romans 6:16, there is a contrast here between servants. We are either servants of sin unto death (lost-unbelievers) or else we are servants of obedience unto righteousness (saved-believers). Paul is not saying that works of obedience which follow faith are the means of our salvation, as you pervert this passage to teach. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved based on our obedience/works then he simply would have said in Ephesians 2:8 that we have been saved through faith and obedience. In Romans 5:1, Paul would have said that we have been justifed by faith and obedience, but of course, that is not what Paul said. You are reading this verse through the lens of works salvation.
As I explained numerous times, "faith only" per James is an empty profession of faith (James 2:14), not genuine faith. Now go back and read Romans 10:16, Acts 10:43 and Romans 5:1 to understand that we obey the gospel from the heart by choosing to believe the gospel and whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins and we are justified by faith. Also go back and read Romans 10:10 - Believes UNTO righteousness (so Paul is not talking about works righteousness in Romans 6:16) and also read ALL of Romans 6:16 - "slaves of obedience" UNTO righteousness not works of obedience after faith unto righteousness.
John is addressing two different walks. One in darkness, one in light. He makes a contrast between those who say they have fellowship with Him, walk in darkness, lie and do not practice the truth with those who walk in the light as He is in the light, have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses them from all sin. John is not contrasting Christians who continue to walk in the light with Christians who fail to continue to walk in the light. Please show me the word "continue" in 1 John 1:7? You are reading your own preconceived ideas into this passage of scripture.
Just because John is writing to Christians does not mean that he is not mentioning non-Christians. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Does this mean they were Christians because John is writings to Christians? NO. *Notice, if they had been of us, the would have continued with us, *continued to walk in the light. Whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins, so baptism is in regards to/on the basis of the remission of sins received upon repentance/belief. John never said that the Christian would fail to continue to walk in the light, but simply contrasts two different walks. One in darkness and one in the light. Thomas and Alexander Campbell's "water and works" salvation is not found in any of this.
There it is, salvation BY works! In contradiction to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). So which obedient works must you accomplish and add to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save you since you refuse to place your faith in Christ alone for salvation? The "whole picture", rests on cause and effect. Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a completely free offer which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect? You have the tail wagging the dog, the cart BEFORE the horse.
What is God's will for us to become saved? John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Refusing to believe in Him is disobedience-sin-unrighteousness-lost (John 3:18; Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and one remains in that lost state until he BELIEVES. Until the blinders of unbelief are removed, you will not understand. Who said anything about "doing nothing?" Those who claim to have faith but do nothing/have no works don't have genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. Do believers do something because of faith, or is faith caused by something we do? Working for salvation can never make one obedient/righteous as Paul said in Romans 4:4-6. In Romans 6:16, Paul said "slaves of obedience UNTO righteousness" and he also said "believes UNTO righteousness" in Romans 10:10 so Paul is clearly not teaching works salvation here, as your itching ears so desperately want to hear.
In Mark 16:16, the omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief, which is in harmony with what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26.
Transcript of Lee Strobel's Testimony. He went from atheist to Christian. He certainly repented!
For most of my life I was an atheist. I thought the idea of an all-loving, all-powerful creator of the universe--I thought it was stupid. I mean, my background is in journalism and law. I tend to be a skeptical person. I was the legal editor of the Chicago Tribune. So I needed evidence before I'd believe anything.
One day my wife came up to me--she'd been agnostic--and she said after a period of spiritual investigation she had decided to become a follower of Jesus Christ. And I thought, you know, this is the worst possible news I could get. I thought she was going to turn into some sexually repressed prude who was going to spend all her time serving the poor in skid row somewhere. I thought this was the end of our marriage.
But in the ensuing months, I saw positive changes in her values, in her character, in the way she related to me and the children. It was winsome; and it was attractive; and it made me want to check things out. So I went to church one day, ah, mainly to see if I could get her out of this cult that she had gotten involved in.
But I heard the message of Jesus articulated for the first time in a way that I could understand it. That forgiveness is a free gift, and that Jesus Christ died for our sins, that we might spend eternity with Him. And I walked out saying--I was still an atheist--but also saying, "If this is true, this has huge implications for my life." And so I used my journalism training and legal training to begin an investigation into whether there was any credibility to Christianity or to any other world faith system for that matter.
I did that for a year and nine months until November the 8th of 1991, and on that day I realized that, in light of the torrent of evidence flowing in the direction of the truth of Christianity, it would require more faith for me to maintain my atheism than to become a Christian. Because to be an atheist I would have to swim upstream against this torrent of evidence pointing toward the truth of Jesus Christ. And I couldn't do that. I was trained in journalism and law to respond to truth. And so on that day, I received Jesus Christ as my forgiver, and as my leader.
And, just like with my wife, my life began to change. Over time my values, my character, the purpose of my life began to be transformed over time in a way that, as I look back, I can't imagine staying on the path I was on compared to the adventure and the fulfillment and the joy of following Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Is that Biblical enough for you?
But what is the root of no confession? No faith. That is the heart of why there is no salvation. It's not the confession in of itself that saves you as an additional requirement after faith. It's the faith behind the confession. In Romans 10:9,10 believing and confessing are not two separate steps to salvation. They are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" TOGETHER (that is, the word of faith which we preach).
Again, Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" TOGETHER (that is, the word of faith which we preach). Notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10 - that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. Not two separate steps (believe today but still lost, finally confess next week then saved) to salvation but chronologically together. Believes unto righteousness, confession made unto salvation "together" BEFORE water baptism. Your 4 step plan negates Romans 10:9,10. According to your plan, confession is not made unto salvation but unto baptism which is then done unto salvation.
Believes unto righteousness/confession unto salvation "together" (Romans 10:8). It's not believe today and confess next week.1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit from a 4 step check list is not unto salvation.
*What about someone who is unable to speak? How can they "confess with their mouth?" Such a person would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10.
False. He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. Since Jesus clarifies the first clause with “but he who does not believe will be condemned,” then baptism signifies salvation and there are not two conditions to being saved here. If belief and baptism are BOTH absolutely essential to salvation, then why didn't Jesus mention baptism in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?
It's the lack of belief that brings condemnation, not the lack of baptism (John 3:18; Mark 16:16(b). So you believe that EVERYONE who has ever been water baptized is a genuine BELIEVER? Are you that naive? Believing is a prerequisite to being baptized, yet unbelievers in various cults and false religions get water baptized all the time anyway. In Mark 16:16, if we look at this verse closely, we see that it is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned. Clearly, the determining factor regarding whether one is saved or condemned is whether or not he believes. In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.
And your idea of obeying is works salvation, which is not obedience. What did Paul say in Romans 10:10? Believes UNTO righteousness. What did Paul say in Romans 10:16? But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Again, When we place our faith in Christ for salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." You left out "servants of obedience" unto righteousness. Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness. In Romans 6:16, there is a contrast here between servants. We are either servants of sin unto death (lost-unbelievers) or else we are servants of obedience unto righteousness (saved-believers). Paul is not saying that works of obedience which follow faith are the means of our salvation, as you pervert this passage to teach. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved based on our obedience/works then he simply would have said in Ephesians 2:8 that we have been saved through faith and obedience. In Romans 5:1, Paul would have said that we have been justifed by faith and obedience, but of course, that is not what Paul said. You are reading this verse through the lens of works salvation.
As I explained numerous times, "faith only" per James is an empty profession of faith (James 2:14), not genuine faith. Now go back and read Romans 10:16, Acts 10:43 and Romans 5:1 to understand that we obey the gospel from the heart by choosing to believe the gospel and whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins and we are justified by faith. Also go back and read Romans 10:10 - Believes UNTO righteousness (so Paul is not talking about works righteousness in Romans 6:16) and also read ALL of Romans 6:16 - "slaves of obedience" UNTO righteousness not works of obedience after faith unto righteousness.
John is addressing two different walks. One in darkness, one in light. He makes a contrast between those who say they have fellowship with Him, walk in darkness, lie and do not practice the truth with those who walk in the light as He is in the light, have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses them from all sin. John is not contrasting Christians who continue to walk in the light with Christians who fail to continue to walk in the light. Please show me the word "continue" in 1 John 1:7? You are reading your own preconceived ideas into this passage of scripture.
Just because John is writing to Christians does not mean that he is not mentioning non-Christians. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Does this mean they were Christians because John is writings to Christians? NO. *Notice, if they had been of us, the would have continued with us, *continued to walk in the light. Whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins, so baptism is in regards to/on the basis of the remission of sins received upon repentance/belief. John never said that the Christian would fail to continue to walk in the light, but simply contrasts two different walks. One in darkness and one in the light. Thomas and Alexander Campbell's "water and works" salvation is not found in any of this.
There it is, salvation BY works! In contradiction to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). So which obedient works must you accomplish and add to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save you since you refuse to place your faith in Christ alone for salvation? The "whole picture", rests on cause and effect. Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a completely free offer which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect? You have the tail wagging the dog, the cart BEFORE the horse.
What is God's will for us to become saved? John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Refusing to believe in Him is disobedience-sin-unrighteousness-lost (John 3:18; Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and one remains in that lost state until he BELIEVES. Until the blinders of unbelief are removed, you will not understand. Who said anything about "doing nothing?" Those who claim to have faith but do nothing/have no works don't have genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. Do believers do something because of faith, or is faith caused by something we do? Working for salvation can never make one obedient/righteous as Paul said in Romans 4:4-6. In Romans 6:16, Paul said "slaves of obedience UNTO righteousness" and he also said "believes UNTO righteousness" in Romans 10:10 so Paul is clearly not teaching works salvation here, as your itching ears so desperately want to hear.
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Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The scripture says repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. I suppose at this point one is cleansed from all sins, how can you say they are still unclean in the filth of the flesh...God cleaned you from sins and gave you the gift of the Holy Ghost as promised. How else is one expected to walk in newness of life. Are you now calling God a liar?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
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scripture does not. Your English text does. and it contradicts other aspects of scripture if we take your interpretation
scripture says:
Whoever believes HAS eternal life (no mention of baptism)
Ask, And God will give you rivers of living water, flowing to everlasting life (speaking of the HS, and no mention of baptism)
That condemnation ONLY comes through lack of belief, Not because one did not get baptized in water
Call on the name of the Lord, and you will be saved (no mention of baptism)
After you hear the word, the gospel, and believe, you are sealed with the HS, who is our guarantee (no mention of baptism)
we can KNOW we have eternal life because we believe, No mention of baptism.
you need to face the facts, either Peter contradicted the rest of scripture. Or your interpretation of Peter is flawed (which of course, if we look in the greek, it is!)
No you are. God said we are washed (baptised) by the Holy Spirit. You claim it is by men, Good luck with that
This is Holy Spirit baptism. not water. Only God can literally baptise you into the death and burial of Christ. All man can do is baptize you in water. This is the literal work of God in your life the moment you believe.
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Okay, so we do agree on your first statement.
You said that John prophesied to all regarding Holy Spirit baptism that would soon come. But the challenge is who is the "you" in that verse where Jesus says you would receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Did he mean every human being? Or was she just speaking in general terms. I believe the first incident of Holy Spirit baptism followed on the day of Pentecost and Acts chapter 2 verse 38. We also know it happened at the house of Cornelius.
I don't see an Colossians chapter 2 where Paul said we are spiritually baptized by God.
on your next statement, if you're referring to first Corinthians 12:13, I do not think this means baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I have said more times than I can count that there is nothing in the water to save you. Baptism in water is a command of God for the remission of sins Acts 2:38. The power is in Christ's blood and we come in contact with that blood by being baptized Galatians 3:26 and 27.
You said that John prophesied to all regarding Holy Spirit baptism that would soon come. But the challenge is who is the "you" in that verse where Jesus says you would receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Did he mean every human being? Or was she just speaking in general terms. I believe the first incident of Holy Spirit baptism followed on the day of Pentecost and Acts chapter 2 verse 38. We also know it happened at the house of Cornelius.
I don't see an Colossians chapter 2 where Paul said we are spiritually baptized by God.
on your next statement, if you're referring to first Corinthians 12:13, I do not think this means baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I have said more times than I can count that there is nothing in the water to save you. Baptism in water is a command of God for the remission of sins Acts 2:38. The power is in Christ's blood and we come in contact with that blood by being baptized Galatians 3:26 and 27.