Too much Sinful Music in Churches
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That's right Shrimp!
FireHeart, I think you have a narrow vision of worship. Yes, worship is an individual thing, but it can and should be corporate as well. In Exodus 15:1, Moses AND THE ISRAELITES sang to the Lord. This is corporate worship. And if the music onstage is so loud that not only can we not hear ourselves sing, but we cannot hear each other sing either, then corporate worship ceases to exist, and again, I say, we have a concert. We receive encouragement when we sing corporately and hear the entire congregation lift up praises to God.
One of the primary reasons I go to church each week is to participate in corporate worship -- not to be sung to by some ridiculously loud band. I worship individually during the week, so I relish these times of corporate worship. When the music is too loud, it simply does not happen, and I don't believe God is glorified.
FireHeart, I think you have a narrow vision of worship. Yes, worship is an individual thing, but it can and should be corporate as well. In Exodus 15:1, Moses AND THE ISRAELITES sang to the Lord. This is corporate worship. And if the music onstage is so loud that not only can we not hear ourselves sing, but we cannot hear each other sing either, then corporate worship ceases to exist, and again, I say, we have a concert. We receive encouragement when we sing corporately and hear the entire congregation lift up praises to God.
One of the primary reasons I go to church each week is to participate in corporate worship -- not to be sung to by some ridiculously loud band. I worship individually during the week, so I relish these times of corporate worship. When the music is too loud, it simply does not happen, and I don't believe God is glorified.
F
narrow visioned about worship? im not sure about that, I dont only listen to Christian rock I sometimes like a gentle Choir singing as it helps me connect with him intimately but other times i want my heart to be aflame for him and Christian Rock does this for me. Im not to into Christian rap but I dont look down upon other personal way of praising God.
besides there are lots of ways to praise him other than singing but to believe that ones own particular praise music is the only right one and others are sinful or wrong is indeed close minded
besides there are lots of ways to praise him other than singing but to believe that ones own particular praise music is the only right one and others are sinful or wrong is indeed close minded
Some facets of modern churchgoing I appreciate - teaching street smarts, musical initiatives for young people and other practical community projects - but there is also a grotesqueness in seeing people discard tranquil elegance in favour of brash excess.
I have serious doubts that praising at the top of one's lungs is honestly the fervent worship it's promoted as; I suspect that the frenzied hysteria - babbling, fainting and writhing redolent of cocaine addiction - is little more than an enthusiastic veneer over what might otherwise be a very uninspiring experience. In my observations, modern churchgoing has all but embraced that type of perverse mile-a-minute over-stimulation because people otherwise swiftly lose interest. That itself illustrates an uncomfortable truth about much of western Christianity; that it can be very superficial. The irony is that its flagrant adulteration completely obscures the subtlety of the teaching, a teaching which can only be fully recognized under conditions that encourage still reflection.
I understand music's power as a medium to portray a message, but when church becomes nothing but a vehicle for charging up audiences into an adrenaline fix, I think congregation leaders need to rethink what it's really all about.
I have serious doubts that praising at the top of one's lungs is honestly the fervent worship it's promoted as; I suspect that the frenzied hysteria - babbling, fainting and writhing redolent of cocaine addiction - is little more than an enthusiastic veneer over what might otherwise be a very uninspiring experience. In my observations, modern churchgoing has all but embraced that type of perverse mile-a-minute over-stimulation because people otherwise swiftly lose interest. That itself illustrates an uncomfortable truth about much of western Christianity; that it can be very superficial. The irony is that its flagrant adulteration completely obscures the subtlety of the teaching, a teaching which can only be fully recognized under conditions that encourage still reflection.
I understand music's power as a medium to portray a message, but when church becomes nothing but a vehicle for charging up audiences into an adrenaline fix, I think congregation leaders need to rethink what it's really all about.
T
Haha! You're awesome! Actually, in a Lutheran hymnal at my grandparent's country church, I found that the oldest hymn was from 960AD. Now that's old! Naturally, it had been translated into modern English but it still didn't make much sense or make for an easy read (even the KJV is easier).
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um, i find that hard to believe. i'm on the worship team, and even when i can't hear myself sing well, i can tell when i'm "straining" my vocal cords. i think most who sing are aware of what a straining voice feels like.
if you're that concerned about straining your voice, you can put in some earplugs, and you'll hear yourself fine, typically. : )
if you're that concerned about straining your voice, you can put in some earplugs, and you'll hear yourself fine, typically. : )
My worship style? What are we talking here? Is there such a thing as a worship style, in The Church? Aren't we to worship in Spirit and Truth, otherwise, we end up worshiping Baal, like the jews in the desert?
The true Church did not change for 2000 years, neither did the true God.
The fact that people suggest to the opener to find a church on "his style" is a proof that the western church lacks the 'unity in diversity' (conferred by the Holy Spirit).
The western church (which is the one from 50.000 of denominations?) has lost its gift of speaking in tongues, a gift that has nothing to do with the babbling of the Pentecostals, but a gift which consists in speaking on the tongue of each person present, delivering the same message in such a way that both a young and an old person understands, both an educated and an uneducated person understands.
If your worship really comes from the heart, than you should manifest your love towards your brother, Atwood, and have mercy on his bleeding ears.
The true Church did not change for 2000 years, neither did the true God.
The fact that people suggest to the opener to find a church on "his style" is a proof that the western church lacks the 'unity in diversity' (conferred by the Holy Spirit).
The western church (which is the one from 50.000 of denominations?) has lost its gift of speaking in tongues, a gift that has nothing to do with the babbling of the Pentecostals, but a gift which consists in speaking on the tongue of each person present, delivering the same message in such a way that both a young and an old person understands, both an educated and an uneducated person understands.
If your worship really comes from the heart, than you should manifest your love towards your brother, Atwood, and have mercy on his bleeding ears.
With a little bit of imagination (and average culture) you can understand what I mean when I say neo-protestantism. Protestantism comprises lutheranism, calvinism etc.; the sects that come after (baptist church, Pentecostalism) are neo-protestant ("neo" literally means new). What comes after the neo-protestantism are "para-christian sects" ("para-christian" because they no longer follow the Bible) such as: Adventism, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism and whatever is that Americans have invented today (I can't keep up with the western multiplication of the sects).
This gives me an idea. What if a church allowed people to quietly nod their head to the song that was coming through a personal set of ear-buds or headphones? It would be Similar to the airlines that have a limited radio station list on airplanes, only it would be different song Christian genres, songs, but same message-- so the pastor's sermon can correlate with each listener. This unique devices would have noise cancelling capability so that people's "songs" do not interrupt the message through music. Also, these devices would be jammed, as would cellphones, once sermon time approaches. Oh, there would be live music, too. Only, the genre and song would be chosen from the day's list via a manual BINGO # scrambling basket thing-uh-muh-jig-- each service.
As for loudness during the live worship with music portion, this would vary, BUT, each church attendee/participant would be able to use the noise cancel ear pieces, or move to the sound-proof all-transparent, plexiglass room in the back. Basically, the higher you jump or run. As for singing from the congregation, everyone would have a min mic built into a their headphones, so if someone wanted to sing they could be heard heard the the Group Genre Song Choice of the Day Channel (GGSCoDC for short). The GGSCoDC would be listened to by a Sound Control Technician, who could mute, or turn up or down the congregation through the headphones.
this is a work in progress, but while it may seem unnecessary... people would start to crave for the customizable personal-interest oriented corporate worship experience.
...kidding.
As for loudness during the live worship with music portion, this would vary, BUT, each church attendee/participant would be able to use the noise cancel ear pieces, or move to the sound-proof all-transparent, plexiglass room in the back. Basically, the higher you jump or run. As for singing from the congregation, everyone would have a min mic built into a their headphones, so if someone wanted to sing they could be heard heard the the Group Genre Song Choice of the Day Channel (GGSCoDC for short). The GGSCoDC would be listened to by a Sound Control Technician, who could mute, or turn up or down the congregation through the headphones.
this is a work in progress, but while it may seem unnecessary... people would start to crave for the customizable personal-interest oriented corporate worship experience.
...kidding.
FireHeart, The narrow vision I see is how you only think of worship as an individual. I was talking about the benefits of corporate worship. Again, this in not about genres. Even organs can be too loud.
gypsygirl, you may be on the worship team, but I have a Doctorate in Music, in voice, specifically. I have taught hundreds of singers and not a few worship leaders. Most of them come to me with one problem: vocal strain. So, no, not everyone knows when they are straining their voice. And people in the congregation are going to be even LESS aware of this because they are completely untrained.
Also, to all of you advocating for earplugs, hear this: God wants our corporate worship! You simply cannot worship corporately if you cannot hear what is going on around you. Music that is too loud disallows corporate worship, and there is where the sin lies. Has nothing to do with genres.
gypsygirl, you may be on the worship team, but I have a Doctorate in Music, in voice, specifically. I have taught hundreds of singers and not a few worship leaders. Most of them come to me with one problem: vocal strain. So, no, not everyone knows when they are straining their voice. And people in the congregation are going to be even LESS aware of this because they are completely untrained.
Also, to all of you advocating for earplugs, hear this: God wants our corporate worship! You simply cannot worship corporately if you cannot hear what is going on around you. Music that is too loud disallows corporate worship, and there is where the sin lies. Has nothing to do with genres.
F
You know quite well what I mean by worship style but i will explain it anyways. think of our relationship with God, some ppl are more calm and serene with him and prefere such kind of of music and praise- the downfall is they can sometimes be very old fassioned and are in a word disgusted by loud or upbeat music such as christian rock.
then you have some like me whose relationship with him is like Fire, we are extremely passionate about him where often times consumed by our fiery love for him and cannot accept anything less than giving him our all. A down fall of ours is we will sometimes go overboard in our zeal and when praising God can either sing far to loud or give a passionate scream.
Of course this is just a quick explanation of it both these types of christians are required in his kingdom and neither of these types of worship are wrong or evil. just as every person is unique yet greatly valued by God their relationship and type of worship is unique yet very pleasing to god. I do not use a single kind of worship i use what I am lead to use, sometimes I listen to upbeat or intense praise music and praise him like so others I listen to calm and serene praise music to be still and just enjoy my time with him.
the issue here isnt which type is more appropiate or if its wrong or sinfull the issue is our willingness to accept that both kinds are greatly enjoyed by god.
then you have some like me whose relationship with him is like Fire, we are extremely passionate about him where often times consumed by our fiery love for him and cannot accept anything less than giving him our all. A down fall of ours is we will sometimes go overboard in our zeal and when praising God can either sing far to loud or give a passionate scream.
Of course this is just a quick explanation of it both these types of christians are required in his kingdom and neither of these types of worship are wrong or evil. just as every person is unique yet greatly valued by God their relationship and type of worship is unique yet very pleasing to god. I do not use a single kind of worship i use what I am lead to use, sometimes I listen to upbeat or intense praise music and praise him like so others I listen to calm and serene praise music to be still and just enjoy my time with him.
the issue here isnt which type is more appropiate or if its wrong or sinfull the issue is our willingness to accept that both kinds are greatly enjoyed by god.
There are a lot of worships but only one which is in Spirit and Truth. All the other ones are dangerous and harmful for they open the doors to the deceiver.
You seem to ignore what I keep on telling you about the jews in the desert. My friend, the worship of Baal was not intentional idolatry (because religions seek God, not illusions, or worse, demons - demonolatry) and it was even founded on understandable religious needs.
Why would God warn us about the true/correct worship if all forms of worship lead you to the real, true and living God? Understand my friend, that God, out of love and care for us, when Adam and Eve have received the 'advice' of the snake, God blocked our channel of direct communication with Him because of our fallen natures that are no longer capable of discerning what is God and what is not. Our twisted minds perceive God in a twisted way. Since man has separated himself from God, he seeks God trough religions. God revealed Himself to man because God also wants communion with us, that's why He incarnated, because He loves us very much. Unless you are enlighten by the Holy Spirit you do not know how to worship God. Instead of worshiping God, you expose yourself to demonic infiltrations if you are not careful.
You seem to ignore what I keep on telling you about the jews in the desert. My friend, the worship of Baal was not intentional idolatry (because religions seek God, not illusions, or worse, demons - demonolatry) and it was even founded on understandable religious needs.
Why would God warn us about the true/correct worship if all forms of worship lead you to the real, true and living God? Understand my friend, that God, out of love and care for us, when Adam and Eve have received the 'advice' of the snake, God blocked our channel of direct communication with Him because of our fallen natures that are no longer capable of discerning what is God and what is not. Our twisted minds perceive God in a twisted way. Since man has separated himself from God, he seeks God trough religions. God revealed Himself to man because God also wants communion with us, that's why He incarnated, because He loves us very much. Unless you are enlighten by the Holy Spirit you do not know how to worship God. Instead of worshiping God, you expose yourself to demonic infiltrations if you are not careful.